Post Your Opinions About Doom (Whether Controversial or Not)

[lokbustam257]

52 minutes ago, Komenja said:

 

Ah, individuals of refined tastes.

this is reminds me of a thread that get locked yesterday

 

[cannonball]

I don’t know whether this is controversial, but in my opinion megawads with a double act (Two authors) tend to produce the most memorable results. Plutonia, Hell revealed (albeit it has aged badly), Kama Sutra, Speed of Doom. Having two people prevents the issue of a single person running out of ideas whilst community projects tend to be a mixed bag.

Eviternity and Ancient Aliens have another method that works well where there is a single author but some guest maps that are more stringently controlled in terms of quality.

[Gez]

On the Sunlust difficulty debate, I'm just gonna say that I have completed Sunlust on UV (continuous, with saves) but I've never gotten past Sunder MAP01 without cheating.

 

So I find it odd that Sunlust is often mentioned as being harder than Sunder. Clearly I suck at Sunder.

[Megalyth]

1 hour ago, Gez said:

On the Sunlust difficulty debate, I'm just gonna say that I have completed Sunlust on UV (continuous, with saves) but I've never gotten past Sunder MAP01 without cheating.

 

So I find it odd that Sunlust is often mentioned as being harder than Sunder. Clearly I suck at Sunder.

 

I suck at these too. I've only ever played Sunder with God mode on, mostly to appreciate the architecture. I played a few maps into Sunlust without cheating, but from what I've seen of later maps in the set, I know without a doubt that they are way beyond my skill level. 

[Jacek Bourne]

Not sure if this is controversial however, I think that more megawads should have many experimental maps within them. It would make it very interesting to play through.

[Doominick]

On 5/20/2021 at 7:28 PM, 1Destro3456 said:

just kidding, play Doom however you like only thing is that that's probably not that controversial of an opinion

The assets of the game are stolen

[baja blast rd.]

My thoughts on Sunlust: 

 

To Ribbiks and Danne (who are pretty skilled Doom players and strategists), most of Sunlust is more like how the back half of Vanguard or Speed of Doom are seen by most people. It's intense, but compared to their very hardest maps, or something like MrZZul's Dimensions, they pulled lots of punches. They have a higher gear of difficulty in their pocket. 

 

The defining ethos of Sunlust isn't really "being hard." In fact, Ribbiks of that era cared as much about the aesthetic of oppression as actual oppression, and something like "Inverti in Darkness" (map20), with a punishing stingy start, builds into BFG spam with megaspheres in reserve if you find everything. Danne's thing is Sunderized Vanguard / Vanguardized Sunder -- those were two of his favorite sets and it shows -- and his fights are intense just because that is fun to him (check out Summer of '69 map05 for him trying something really hard). 

 

Also, Ribbiks and Danne tend to be uncontrolling in most ways other than the single common way of "forcing the fight through lock-ins." The term "intended strategy" is a misnomer applied to their work. Not a lot in Sunlust has one specific strategy intended by the author. Over time, all the maxruns and casual playthroughs people did ended up coming up with lots and lots of different stuff all over the place. They even tend to be more lax about lock-ins than many people emulating them. 

 

I think the conception of Sunlust as this Ultimate Challenge Thing is a fair description of how many people will encounter it, but it doesn't accurately reflect why they designed it. 

[1Destro3456]

Doom is a good game and Doom 2 is even better, Plutonia is shit, TNT is the pinnacle of Doom, better than any user made pwad, better than any Doom content that has come out and will come out, it will always stick out as the best of the best in Doom, doesn't matter what you play it with or how you play it, you can play it with Brutal Doom and come out of it thinking you just played the pinnacle, not of Doom, but of gaming. And you can play it with Hideous Destructor and come out with the same thought. This megawad will make anything else meaningless, your health will be meaningless, your relationships will be meaningless, sex will be meaningless, your life without TNT Evilution will be meaningless. 

 

 

I've made my mind that it isn't the pinnacle of gaming, it's the pinnacle of art itself, nothing better will ever be made.  You will never see another thing like it, it's the most memorable, it's a masterpiece. You'll never be able to do anything else without thinking of TNT, your life will be changed forever and will never be back to normal. It should be illegal not to have played this masterpiece, you'll be shocked t how it plays. 

 

I hope you play this because if not I'll personally come to you house and burn you then when you're well cooked eat you, while feasting on your blood.

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is clearly a joke, how would I come to your house, I've never even played TNT.

 

[1Destro3456]

Don't ask why I'm using this thread for my own humor only, probably because I don't really have a controversial opinion

[roadworx]

2 hours ago, 1Destro3456 said:

Doom is a good game and Doom 2 is even better, Plutonia is shit, TNT is the pinnacle of Doom, better than any user made pwad, better than any Doom content that has come out and will come out, it will always stick out as the best of the best in Doom, doesn't matter what you play it with or how you play it, you can play it with Brutal Doom and come out of it thinking you just played the pinnacle, not of Doom, but of gaming. And you can play it with Hideous Destructor and come out with the same thought. This megawad will make anything else meaningless, your health will be meaningless, your relationships will be meaningless, sex will be meaningless, your life without TNT Evilution will be meaningless. 

 

 

I've made my mind that it isn't the pinnacle of gaming, it's the pinnacle of art itself, nothing better will ever be made.  You will never see another thing like it, it's the most memorable, it's a masterpiece. You'll never be able to do anything else without thinking of TNT, your life will be changed forever and will never be back to normal. It should be illegal not to have played this masterpiece, you'll be shocked t how it plays. 

 

I hope you play this because if not I'll personally come to you house and burn you then when you're well cooked eat you, while feasting on your blood.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is clearly a joke, how would I come to your house, I've never even played TNT.

 

oh no, he's becoming @MtPain27 )):

[thelazyqdude]

Doom's gameplay mods are really incomplete without good matching maps, preferably UDMF maps. Like cool, you got your badass custom doomguy with his giant arsenal & double jump jetpack boots... but now you have to go searching for a good map to fit with it! Also one of the reasons I love Final Doomer so much.

 

The worst part about it is when someone finally looks into making maps designed for the gameplay mod they're interested in, only to realize the modder hasn't done anything to consider the mapper and it's clear that it'll be annoying to map for.

[Fairen]

I love the attitude of "because you criticized something, you clearly suck at it". Just because I don't base my identity around "git gud" and ramming my head against poorly-designed, one-trick content clearly means I'm completely talentless and need to play on ITYTD. 🙃

 

(and no, I don't care if the circlejerk gets offended again at being called out on their shitty logic)

[Shepardus]

Okay, I'll be the one to bite the bullet this time.

On 5/25/2021 at 12:43 AM, Fairen said:

Sunlust is not difficult if you approach everything from the "okay, something is obviously going to happen if I go here/pick this up, let's trigger it, okay that's what happens and this is how I need to react to it, reload" angle. The problem is when you get screwed over because you didn't already know what's going to happen.

Regardless of whether this description is accurate, why exactly is this a problem? I dare say that many of my favorite games loosely follow the pattern of "challenging until you learn its tricks, then becomes much easier," and indeed part of the enjoyment comes from revisiting what once stymied me and defusing its traps with precognition I couldn't have leaned on the first time around.

[baja blast rd.]

3 hours ago, Fairen said:

I love the attitude of "because you criticized something, you clearly suck at it". Just because I don't base my identity around "git gud" and ramming my head against poorly-designed, one-trick content clearly means I'm completely talentless and need to play on ITYTD. 🙃

 

(and no, I don't care if the circlejerk gets offended again at being called out on their shitty logic)

 

To be clear, my post was related to that discussion only in the sense that I posted it because Sunlust and its difficulty was topical. It's completely separate from the "back and forth."  

[Nine Inch Heels]

4 hours ago, Fairen said:

I love the attitude of "because you criticized something, you clearly suck at it". Just because I don't base my identity around "git gud" and ramming my head against poorly-designed, one-trick content clearly means I'm completely talentless and need to play on ITYTD. 🙃

 

(and no, I don't care if the circlejerk gets offended again at being called out on their shitty logic)

And I love how you make baseless accusations without addressing any of the points people have made. By the way, a recommendation to use a lower skill setting is not an insult, and it's extremely telling that you take it as such.

 

Anyway, that nonsensical answer of yours right there tells me everything I need to know. You're not willing to engage in good faith, you just wanted to shit on something you didn't like, and now you're doubling and tripling down on your BS when you're being called out for it, instead of addressing any arguments made in good faith.

 

And there it is again, the "I don't like this, therefore it's poorly designed, and also I'm the only metric that matters". It's amazing how you're fabricating a victim narrative for yourself while you keep insulting the work of people who spent months of their time building something that was accessible to a lot of people, since the mappers went out of their way to cover a lot of ground with the difficulty settings they implemented. The sense of entitlement you show here is pretty damn disgusting.

 

And no, nobody cares that it hurts your ego if you end up having to play hmp or hntr to make the experience more enjoyable yourself. You're certainly not getting any bonus points from anyone here just because you refuse to swallow your false sense of pride for a second.

 

Where are the maps that were supposed to be better at combat than SunLust while they're still challenging?

 

What other methods do mappers have? Where's this genius one method SunLust should use to be better at what it does?

 

And why do you call something you've only seen half a dozen maps of - by your own admission -  a one-trick-pony?

 

Tell you what, I'm pretty sure I'm not getting answers to any of these questions... But maybe you should ask yourself if talking out of your ass for longer than you can feasibly sustain is gonna do you any favours mid or long-term around here. While I'm at it, the calling out went the other way around - people are calling you out for your BS, and it's been like this from the very start. I know your ego might not agree with this, but the last couple pages of this thread paint a very clear picture... Just letting you know...

Edited May 27, 2021 by Nine Inch Heels

[John Wheel]

On 5/26/2021 at 5:42 AM, terminator said:

wish i could play as doom girl and not doom guy. the character should at least have a woman's scream when dying.

 

Skelegant has you covered https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?t=61919

 

4 hours ago, Fairen said:

I love the attitude of "because you criticized something, you clearly suck at it". Just because I don't base my identity around "git gud" and ramming my head against poorly-designed, one-trick content clearly means I'm completely talentless and need to play on ITYTD. 🙃

 

(and no, I don't care if the circlejerk gets offended again at being called out on their shitty logic)

 

I'm pretty sure people care more about the "your tastes are bad because I don't like them" thing than about whether or not you like those wads or how good or bad you're at the game.

[Fairen]

Well, I guess you're all in the right because responding in the same manner back to you people who jumped down my throat for having the audacity to have a controversial opinion in the controversial opinion thread is the real problem.

 

There's plenty of well-designed WADs that don't rely on repetitive schlock.

 

(Oh, and I checked out Sunlust's MAP29. Standard "press 7 and hold fire" slaughtermap. Exciting! /s)

Edited May 27, 2021 by Fairen

[baja blast rd.]

 

Two separate mods who aren't me* have warned people for posts in this argument, which has gotten personal, so it seems like a good time for it to end. 

 

Also added some loose guidelines in the OP (which you don't have to read if you don't envision yourself ever getting into an argument in this thread). 

 

 

*I have already read too many arguments on DW about difficult/slaughter maps.

[roadworx]

dear lord i was afraid that this thread had been murdered in cold blood, i was about to hold a funeral

[Doomkid]

On 5/26/2021 at 1:42 PM, terminator said:

wish i could play as doom girl and not doom guy. the character should at least have a woman's scream when dying.

Sorry I didn't see this sooner - 150skins has various flavors of Doomgirl for you to choose, assuming you're using a ZDoom family port or one that supports skins.

Edited May 27, 2021 by Doomkid

[KeaganDunn]

I see why you regret making this thread, @rd.  I don't look at it very often, but I've seen enough. :P

I'm legitimately surprised you people haven't gotten rid of it already. This is the ultimatum of people being entitled to and stating their own opinions, while others won't leave them alone and want to start an argument instead.

 

I noticed the update in the OP. Glad to see there's changes being made.

[roadworx]

ANYWAYS

 

15 hours ago, thelazyqdude said:

Doom's gameplay mods are really incomplete without good matching maps, preferably UDMF maps. Like cool, you got your badass custom doomguy with his giant arsenal & double jump jetpack boots... but now you have to go searching for a good map to fit with it! Also one of the reasons I love Final Doomer so much.

 

The worst part about it is when someone finally looks into making maps designed for the gameplay mod they're interested in, only to realize the modder hasn't done anything to consider the mapper and it's clear that it'll be annoying to map for.

i honestly feel like this is less of an opinion and more of a fact tbh. gameplay mods oftentimes change so much of the balance that they render maps made with doom 2's base gameplay in mind completely unbalanced messes. mind you that this isn't the fault of anyone, rather it's simply what happens when gameplay is heavily changed. it's like what would happen when you port a map from quake to unreal tournament - it's not gonna play as well as it does in quake simply because the decisions made by the mapper were made specifically with quake's gameplay in mind

[Kyka]

On 5/27/2021 at 4:16 AM, 1Destro3456 said:

Doom is a good game and Doom 2 is even better, Plutonia is shit, TNT is the pinnacle of Doom, better than any user made pwad, better than any Doom content that has come out and will come out, it will always stick out as the best of the best in Doom, doesn't matter what you play it with or how you play it, you can play it with Brutal Doom and come out of it thinking you just played the pinnacle, not of Doom, but of gaming. And you can play it with Hideous Destructor and come out with the same thought. This megawad will make anything else meaningless, your health will be meaningless, your relationships will be meaningless, sex will be meaningless, your life without TNT Evilution will be meaningless. 

 

 

I've made my mind that it isn't the pinnacle of gaming, it's the pinnacle of art itself, nothing better will ever be made.  You will never see another thing like it, it's the most memorable, it's a masterpiece. You'll never be able to do anything else without thinking of TNT, your life will be changed forever and will never be back to normal. It should be illegal not to have played this masterpiece, you'll be shocked at how it plays. 

 

I hope you play this because if not I'll personally come to you house and burn you then when you're well cooked eat you, while feasting on your blood.

 

 

 

With the hidden sarcasm now removed, here, finally, is a post I can really get behind. I regret that I have but one soul-sphere-emoji-like to give this post.

 

tnt 4 eva

 

All Hail the Hypnodrake (O'Brien, that is!!1!)

[leodoom85]

TNT has the fucking TNT TRUCK with some goodies inside!!! Take that Plutonia!!!

 

Out of jokes, TNT is fine imo and I consider to be a tiny bit little better than Doom 2 overall, despite that has that Mount Pain map....argh...

Plutonia is better than TNT generally because it offers a good challenge, it's manageable for all skills and has better progression.

[out_of_service]

On 5/25/2021 at 6:29 PM, Naarok0fkor said:

Pistol sucks...

Hey lets not get crazy here. Geeze.

[leodoom85]

Pistol sucks and it's easily replaceable. The only good thing about the pistol is that it's 100% accurate if shots are controlled. Other than that, it sucks balls.

Even the fist does a better job than the peashooter.

[SuperPIter_DoomWorldthe2nd]

Here is a very spicy take for all of ya' here.

 

I actually enjoy playing Classic DOOM's most hated maps.

[The BMFG]

15 minutes ago, SuperPIter_DoomWorldthe2nd said:

Here is a very spicy take for all of ya' here.

 

I actually enjoy playing Classic DOOM's most hated maps.

even..... map13 of doom2?

[SuperPIter_DoomWorldthe2nd]

2 minutes ago, The BMFG said:

even..... map13 of doom2?

Yes, i don't see why it's even that hated since it's just a town-thingy kind of map. I played a bit of it a while ago but don't remember where or when.

[terminator]

5 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Sorry I didn't see this sooner - 150skins has various flavors of Doomgirl for you to choose, assuming you're using a ZDoom family port or one that supports skins.

many thanks, @Doomkid. will give it a try :)