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rdwpa

Post Your Controversial Opinions About Doom

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I don't know if this is a controversial opinion or not, but I honestly don't get why keyboard-only is a thing. Especially nowadays when mouse support is so much better and source ports can get rid of that ugly distortion you can get when looking up and down.

Yeah sure, it's harder to play with just a keyboard than it is to play with a keyboard+mouse, but so what? It would be even harder if you played with one hand (fnarr fnarr).

Playing without jumping or crouching I can understand because the original Doom 1/2 maps (and those made after in their style) were made without such abilities in mind, but since mouse support has been in Doom since its inception, the "originalist" justification doesn't work either.

To me it's just gimping yourself for no good reason.

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NoXion said:

Yeah sure, it's harder to play with just a keyboard than it is to play with a keyboard+mouse, but so what? It would be even harder if you played with one hand (fnarr fnarr).

Tell that to Espi- RIP man! :(

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NoXion said:

I don't know if this is a controversial opinion or not, but I honestly don't get why keyboard-only is a thing. Especially nowadays when mouse support is so much better and source ports can get rid of that ugly distortion you can get when looking up and down.

Yeah sure, it's harder to play with just a keyboard than it is to play with a keyboard+mouse, but so what? It would be even harder if you played with one hand (fnarr fnarr).

Playing without jumping or crouching I can understand because the original Doom 1/2 maps (and those made after in their style) were made without such abilities in mind, but since mouse support has been in Doom since its inception, the "originalist" justification doesn't work either.

To me it's just gimping yourself for no good reason.

I agree with this except I prefer to play with mouselook off unless the map requires it. Some maps become a lot easier with it on than they should be, and other times if you play with autoaim disabled and mouselook it becomes much more difficult. There's also the issue of being able to shoot switches when you shouldn't with mouselook.

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Oh yeah, as someone who always uses mouselook I have autoaim completely disabled. Feels like I'm using an aimbot (i.e. cheating) otherwise.

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MegaSphere said:

I just realised Doom promotes toxic masculinity, tries to scare atheists with hell and is incredibly sexist as it features no female characters.


The manual for, I forget if it was Doom 2 or Final Doom, hinted that the SMM was female.

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Azuruish said:

What can i say about randomness that it's testing you luckiness. You know, it's shocking when you have 100% health and 100% green armor, you gets direct rocket hit and still alive after this.

I'm pretty sure you need some health bonuses for this to actually happen, because your effective HP at 100% with green armor is about 133% - and a direct rocket hit does 20 on the lowest roll, plus 128 radius damage.

Even if you get hit in a way where you don't take the full radius damage, there's still quite a lot of damage to cover.

Edit: Wait, Green Armor reduces damage to 66.7%, it doesn't increase EHP by 33.3%. That means the EHP should actually be around 150% ( maybe 149% or 151%, depending on precision and rounding errors ), so it it literally just enough to leave you with 1 to 3 health, depending.

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NoXion said:

Playing without jumping or crouching I can understand because the original Doom 1/2 maps (and those made after in their style) were made without such abilities in mind, but since mouse support has been in Doom since its inception, the "originalist" justification doesn't work either.


TBQH, mouse support at first was crippled because of the vertical movement -it took a lot of training to avoid moving forward or backwards, and that alone alienated many players from that coontrol scheme -at least until NOVERT came about. When Quake came out on the other hand, it was an entirely different thing.

Imo, the most 'natural' way to play Doom with one hand only, would be to install pedals for either directional control (turning, a-la aircrafts) or for moving forwards/backwards, and leaving turning and strafing to hand controls, kinda like driving a car or hovercraft.

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NoXion said:

Yeah sure, it's harder to play with just a keyboard than it is to play with a keyboard+mouse, but so what?


It's not that much harder (against monsters; deathmatch opponents are another matter).

If you aim at something by turning, if it's twice as far away you have to turn half as much. If you aim at something by strafing, if it's twice as far away you have to strafe... the same amount. And, of course, you already strafe to dodge; especially with pulsed-damage weapons like the shotguns, aiming by strafing dodges for free (if you don't have the partial invisibility; on -fast I generally hide somewhere and wait out invisibility).

"But mousers could aim by strafing" - but they don't, and to do so you'd have to hold the mouse still while you were doing it and if you're doing that you might as well aim with the mouse.

"Why doesn't this apply in every other FPS?" - because they don't have vertical autoaim and unless you're playing Descent in a gravityless 3D environment you can't strafe up and down.

"You can't turn around quickly" - well, I do have a 180 degree keybind, but I generally forget where it is. Unlike Deathmatch opponents, monsters generally don't appear behind you by surprise and when they do it's often best to run forwards and find some breathing room.

Curiously, I just posted in the Confessional Booth to say actually one-handed keyboarding is not much worse, especially in an always-run source port.

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As I said countless of times (and I think it's a good controversial opinion too), the only way to settle which control method is the best (or at least, how do they stack up relative to each other) would be to have special COMPET-N leagues for pure keyboard, pure gamepad (with the vanilla Doom constraints on joystick/joypad input though, so no modern mixed digital/analog PSX-type gamepads), mouse without novert etc.

So, next time someone claims that "he plays just fine" with e.g. a gamepad and "just as well as mouse + keyboard", well, I'll be waiting for a COMPET-N demo proving it.

IMO, mouse + WASD would come on top, closely followed by classic keyboard (in some maps, there might be little difference), and followed by a huge divide by joysticks/gamepads and mouse with novert/without keyboard.

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Maes said:

IMO, mouse + WASD would come on top, closely followed by classic keyboard (in some maps, there might be little difference), and followed by a huge divide by joysticks/gamepads and mouse with novert/without keyboard.


For all that I'm happy playing on keyboard alone, I would be amazed if you were wrong about mouse+wasd beating it to some degree.

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I play only with the keyboard and I absolutely HATE the fact that source ports allow mouselook, jumping and crouching. In my book, this is heresy.

HA! :D

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Vorknkx said:

I play only with the keyboard and I absolutely HATE the fact that source ports allow mouselook, jumping and crouching. In my book, this is heresy.

HA! :D


Though it seems most of us on here play the recent WADs (past 10 years or so) more than anything, so those are designed with modern conveniences in mind. Though usually not jumping. Or at least, the quicker aiming of using a mouse would make these tough WADS more manageable for most.

Also, while I haven't played DOS Doom in years, I know it did ship with mouse support. Couldn't look up and down, but could you bind it to turn? If so that's sort of effectively mouse look, if you combined it with WASD.


My controversial Doom opinion... I like Duke Nukem 3D even better! :P

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Vorknkx said:

I play only with the keyboard and I absolutely HATE the fact that source ports allow mouselook, jumping and crouching. In my book, this is heresy.

HA! :D


Then I am proud to be a Heretic *winks*

I like to play Heretic with Doom weapons, and modded in Doom demons as well. =3

Oh and also I play Doom, Doom II, TNT Evilution, Plutonia, Master Levels, Heretic, Freedoom, and Hexen with mouselook, jumping, and crouching.

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! MY CONTROVERSIAL OPINION IS MODERN CONTROLS!

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA! *draws 666 with blood and laughs maniacally*

=)

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Vorknkx said:

I play only with the keyboard and I absolutely HATE the fact that source ports allow mouselook, jumping and crouching. In my book, this is heresy.

HA! :D

In the infallible Dogma of Doom (*may or may not be infallible*) the absolute mortal sins (*may or may not be absolute*) defined as heresy are jumping, crouching and mouselook; where mouselook is taken to mean unlocked vertical view movement not ordinary horizontal mouse input or vertical player movement.

Needless to say Heresy (not to be confused with the most righteous apotheosis of virtue, Heretic) is a grave issue that has a profound effect on our collective souls and must be dealt with in the severest manner possible (*typically half-joking satirical forum posts*).

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PsychoGoatee said:

My controversial Doom opinion... I like Duke Nukem 3D even better! :P


Get out.

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vadrig4r said:

In the infallible Dogma of Doom (*may or may not be infallible*) the absolute mortal sins (*may or may not be absolute*) defined as heresy are jumping, crouching and mouselook; where mouselook is taken to mean unlocked vertical view movement not ordinary horizontal mouse input or vertical player movement.

Needless to say Heresy (not to be confused with the most righteous apotheosis of virtue, Heretic) is a grave issue that has a profound effect on our collective souls and must be dealt with in the severest manner possible (*typically half-joking satirical forum posts*).


By playing Heretic with Trailblazer and Ketchup Gore mod! =D

(or with Doom weapons as well.) =3

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Chainsaw is a useless gimmick and so is Berserk I don't remember even one situation when I thought ''I wish I had a chainsaw now'' and Berserk would be better if it worked like Quad Damage.

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Aiming in keyboard only isn't even what makes it harder (Does doom even need that much aiming lol, could be clouded by playing it forEVER). The real challenge is still dodging shots as effectively. Even barons can become scarier with a terrible enough keyboard and no mouse to make rotating easier.

Disclaimer : My keyboard is a special kind of shitty so I might be wrong about keyboard+mouse being easier to dodge shit!

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IconOfWin said:

Chainsaw is a useless gimmick and so is Berserk I don't remember even one situation when I thought ''I wish I had a chainsaw now'' and Berserk would be better if it worked like Quad Damage.


I almost never use the chainsaw, but berserk means you can save ammo on every pinkbeast and invisibeast you encounter. Takes a little practice to get the rhythm down, but once you do it's laughably easy on normal speed, and that's two free shotgun shells every time.

Pegg said:

Aiming in keyboard only isn't even what makes it harder (Does doom even need that much aiming lol, could be clouded by playing it forEVER). The real challenge is still dodging shots as effectively. Even barons can become scarier with a terrible enough keyboard and no mouse to make rotating easier.


Dodging is easy on keyboard; you dodge by stepping sideways and you have two keys for that right there. If you were using keyboard and mouse, you'd _still_ use those keys for dodging.

What may not be obvious to a mouser is we don't circle-strafe as much, but sidestep back and forth, dodging and aiming in the same movements and (mostly) leaving the turn keys alone.

(The "strafe key" is an abomination. Turning keys and strafing keys should be separate.)

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On the odd occasion I can't use a mouse, I use wsda+arrow keys, with them substituting the mouse. Works pretty well and would make it easier for someone to transition I'm sure.

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Transition from what to what? I mean, I have doubts about how many WASD+mouse players would want to become keyboarders, as well as doubts about how much would the keyboarders learning WASD+mouse find it useful to not use the mouse outright.

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Touchdown said:

That's also the case with other games, such as Duke3D. That's why 3DR didn't know how to make a proper Duke sequel (and why id has spent 8 years making DOOM4).


Uh, to be fair, 3DR had gotten through their FPS making birthing pains with Rise of the Triad (from before they were 3DR.) The problem with DNF was runaway feature creep thanks to George Broussard demanding every hot new thing be emulated while insisting that the game be made by a small team. When the PS2 game based on the movie The Thing came out the joke was to not let George see it otherwise he'll demand realistic snow be put in.

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Chezza said:

Get out.


There are plenty of Duke fans on here mah boy. Duke 3D and Doom are like brothers, peas in a pod. And being that you're a Brutal Doom fan, surely you can appreciate a quick kick button. :D

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Doomkid said:

On the odd occasion I can't use a mouse, I use wsda+arrow keys, with them substituting the mouse.


Ditto, and since you can't look up and down in (vanilla) doom, that setup works pretty well. Obviously I prefer mouse, but since Doom predates freelook, its one of the few fps games that I feel like I can use with only the keyboard if I had to.

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PsychoGoatee said:

There are plenty of Duke fans on here mah boy. Duke 3D and Doom are like brothers, peas in a pod. And being that you're a Brutal Doom fan, surely you can appreciate a quick kick button. :D

Duke Nukem 3D stopped being cool when they "fixed" the "bug" of being able to quick-quick while using the regular kick.

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Gez said:

Duke Nukem 3D stopped being cool when they "fixed" the "bug" of being able to quick-quick while using the regular kick.


It went from a 20 out of 10 to just a regular 10/10.

And speaking of Duke and Doom being related, Tom Hall worked on both, and both include music by Bobby Prince!

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scifista42 said:

as well as doubts about how much would the keyboarders learning WASD+mouse find it useful to not use the mouse outright.

You may find it surprising, but some people really struggle with the "free" movement of the mouse.

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PsychoGoatee said:

It went from a 20 out of 10 to just a regular 10/10.

And speaking of Duke and Doom being related, Tom Hall worked on both, and both include music by Bobby Prince!

Oh yes, that is so true. Tom Hall did several levels for Doom, including one that made its way into Doom 2, and had plenty of ideas that were implemented in Duke 3D. It's now hard for me to pick Doom over Duke because both are great in their own way, though my most favourite FPS game has to be Rise of the Triad, yet another game Tom Hall worked on with a few tracks by Bobby Prince. :D

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Doomkid said:

On the odd occasion I can't use a mouse, I use wsda+arrow keys, with them substituting the mouse. Works pretty well and would make it easier for someone to transition I'm sure.

Me too ha! If you bind strafe on to UPARROW I actually find it even easier to SR50 than with KB&M.

That's the setup I use for Wolf3D (WASD forward, backward and turn; UPARROW strafe on CTRL shoot).

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I love wood textures. There really aren't enough wood maps in doom.

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