Post Your Opinions About Doom (Whether Controversial or Not)

[ReaperAA]

Hugely controversial (and probably unpopular) opinions incoming:

 

1) E3 of Doom 1 is a weak episode. E3M6 is the only good map in that episode.

 

2) Doom 2's maps are (on average) much much better than Doom 1's maps.

 

3) Perdition's Gate is more enjoyable than TNT: Evilution, Icarus: Alien Vanguard, Memento Mori 1 and MM2. Perditon's Gate should have replaced TNT: Evilution in Final Doom.

 

4) Plutonia is unrivaled among all 90's wad.

 

5) The Darkening E2 is highly underrated and it is better than even wads like Alien Vendetta.

 

6) Original Scythe is more enjoyable than Scythe 2.

 

7) Some (but not all of course) modern wads focus on too much trial and error gameplay. What I mean is that there are wads where it is pretty much impossible to survive without foreknowledge.

 

8) I have a thing for wads that add well made custom monsters like Eviternity, Valiant and Ancient Aliens. However, they have to be well made (I don't like STRAIN for example). Bonus points for good custom textures.

 

9) RNG damage in Doom engine games have too much variation. Doom engine games would have been better off without it.

 

10) Classic Id Software was never good at designing good boss fights. Doom 1's bosses are too easy, Doom 2's IoS and Quake 1's Shub Niggurath just suck, Quake 2's bosses are again too easy.

 

11) I prefer classic Plutonian style combat maps (small monster count but intelligent usage) over cramped slaughter combat.

 

12) I prefer shorter maps over long marathon maps.

 

13) There is absolutely nothing in common between Brutal Doom and new doom games apart from the Glory kills. It still baffles me why some people say that Doom 2016 was inspired from Brutal Doom. Even glory kills are something that were already there in new Doom before Brutal Doom (Doom 4 alpha builds somewhere from 2009-2012 show this)

Edited January 25, 2020 by ReaperAA

[Gez]

The trick to handle arch-viles in no-cover situations is infighting. All other monsters are your allies. Use them to hurt the viles, so the viles don't attack you.

 

Best case scenario, you have a cyberdemon or a pack of revenants to help you. Cybie's splash damage can hurt several viles at once, and revenants' homing missiles can be guided to an arch-vile that remained out of the fray.

[Spectre01]

Right. Viles in a crowd of other enemies will eventually die to crossfire given enough time. Similar deal with groups of Pain Elementals, who get massacred by their own Lost Souls.

[Roofi]

Maybe not an unpopular opinion but I find the arch-vile really overrated in terms of "dangerous enemies". Indeed, he does a lot of damage but you just have to hide behind a wall to protect yourself. Also, his attack takes a long time to be unleashed. I know, it is mainly the way of using the enemy that matters, but in general the arch-vile does not pose any particular problem to me in regular wads.

 

With time, I find that the mancubus, the lost soul and the spectre have a much greater potential for nuisance. I don't count the revenant which is the most overpowered  enemy in the  game for me. 

The mancubus  use a lot of space and can therefore easily block the player. Their attacks are difficult to avoid when they are grouped. 
The lost soul  is a "flying pinky" which can deal a lot of damage to you and waste a lot of ammo. Also, they can make the use of RL very risky. 
The spectre is the most vicious enemy known in the universe since they are nearly invisible. As , the lost souls , they help you to kill yourself with your own RL. ;)

 

However , a real unpopular opinion : Mappers who replace Spidermastermind and Barons because of their "uselessness" should burn in hell.

[Andromeda]

I have so many controversial opinions it's hard to choose one. I'll try:

 

E1 is easily the weakest in Ultimate Doom.

[Roofi]

3 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

I have so many controversial opinions it's hard to choose one. I'll try:

 

E1 is easily the weakest in Ultimate Doom.

 

You are not alone. ;)

 

E2 is far better than E1 for me. I even prefer Episode 3 than Episode 1. Romero made good maps but I always preferred semi-realistic maps in Doom.

[UncleTito]

17 hours ago, Szuran said:

Okay, I gotta dig out this thread. I'm playing D2016 right now and I've noticed I really, really, REALLY don't like Mick Gordon's soundtrack. It's mostly noise in the shape of a beat. There's barely any melody, it's overly simplistic, and the atmosphere is always the same.

 

However, I love listed to the composer talking about how he made these sounds. But sounds themselves - nah, I find them boring.

 

That's djent for you. 7 strings of which only one is played at a time, all show and no substance. Doesn't help that he's caving in to Bethesda's tendency to suck out any and all creativity out of every aspect of game development. Anything resembling thrash or death would be 50 times better than the unholy mashup of Kyle-core and industrial we got and are getting.

 

Another spicy take for yall: Eviternity's 3rd and 4th chapters are arguably its lowest point, with maps that are overly convoluted non-linear key hunts or just plain outstaying their welcome. 

[Morpheus666]

I purposefully once had my friend try doom out for the first time......Playing the Plutonia experiment on the hardest difficulty..

 

I know i'm a very terrible person, But i let him play Doom 1 afterwords and he really got into it.

[High On Berserk]

Doom 3 is actually good game, but should be treated as prequel instead of retelling of Doom 1.

 

Also:

 

Spoiler

Grabber > Gravity Gun.

 

[666shooter]

Since apparently we can include Wads in here as well based on earlier comments:

Deus Vult II and Equinox are both horribly overrated in terms of quality. Vult has a few good levels- the space station was pretty great, and the opening map was fantastic- the cathedral is a broken mess with convoluted bullshit that makes Eternal blush and the final fight for the red key in the last map is a screen-breaking clusterfuck of unfair enemy flooding. Having said that, I actually thought the slaughter elements of the Wad were done well, and I am very critical of badly-designed slaughter situations.

Equinox also starts great for the first four maps, and then you get to the Cyberdemon. We've all fought Cyberdemons plenty of times before but this one is special, as he demarcates the downward spiral into ammo-starved oblivion that characterizes the rest of this miserable crawl. When you've literally fired your last shell and clip multiple times over and are charging imps with a chainsaw despite not wasting ammo needlessly... its time to rebalance, buddy. I know "scarcity" is a "style" but your mapset had better be balanced down the last zombieman if that's what you're going for, and these levels aren't. There's some good infighting prior to boarding the spaceship, but then fighting archviles back to back... to back to back... is insufferable, and what's your reward for surviving all that? A clusterfuck final map that gives you handfuls of very specific ammo when it feels like and surrounds you on all sides, blasting you with Cyberdemon rockets as you piddle like a parapelegic retard towards the elevator that will only lead you in further circles. A truly god-awful ending to a promising Wad.

I could also say bad things about The Alfonzone outside of its detailed level design where combat is concerned, and don't get me started on Doom 404...

There's good and bad in all Wads, though, and not everything can be a Struggle or a Scythe. Or a Revolution. :)

[Just to clarify that I actually do enjoy many original Wads as well, ha.]

[Job]

The shotgun is the best weapon in doom, with the plasma rifle in a close second place. Also, the shotgun is more iconic than the double barrel. 

[Uncle 80]

1 hour ago, 666shooter said:

equinox

 

Oh, I agree 100%. That WAD started out so great with the cute scenery and custom graphics, cool effects etc, but gameplay? Blargh! I also agree with the Doom2016 soundtrack bashing. It's so basic it's hardly metal at all. In fact, it's closer to dub-step with a guitar tuned down in drop Z or however low you can get on a 7-string :p

[The Nate]

Aubrey Hodges is better than Mick Gordon

[XLightningStormL]

Let's see:

1) Doom 2016 is overrated, as is Doom Eternal; Yes it's fresh to see a major dev studio nowadays (since old iD is long since dead) do something OTHER than "generic military hallway shooter #2345990" but it is in no way "GOTY 2016" or "perfect", and no Doom Eternal will not revolutionize FPS gaming sorry, generic mil shooters, and Fortnite clones will be around long after DE, and will still remain supreme long after.
2) Doom is an Action Horror experience, when it was first released kids, and adults were shitting themselves over it due to how scary it was, over time it lost that touch, combined with nostalgia, and "most remember-able" effect people just remembered it as a "pure action experience" despite it actually leaning in a more balanced direction.
3) Spamming high-tier enemies everywhere in maps, then having the galle to use shitty handwaves to justify the "balance design" (i.e Chainguns vs Revenants, Infighting, etc) shows you're a shit-tier gameplay designer.

4) RNG sucks, and should never have been added, it's a cool gimmick, but leads to unbalanced and stupid moments where you get punished for no reason. Should've stayed in D&D.
5) Doom 3 is better than Doom 2016, it suffers from only two purely stupid gameplay decisions: piss weak shotgun, and the screen and player character having a fit when hurt Sorry but Flashlights are not a stupid gameplay decision, their design was perfect for the tone of the game. Doom 3 kicks Doom 2016's butt in: Tone, Atmosphere, Setting, Ambient sound design, Lighting, Lore/B-Story, etc

[Spectre01]

You want controversial?! I use DoomMetalVol5 when playing Doom 1 and 2 because I've heard the default midis too many times. Also, D_RUNNIN isn't a bad track there and most are improvements.

[Arbys550]

1 hour ago, XLightningStormL said:

1) Doom 2016 is overrated, as is Doom Eternal

How do you know? Have you played DE? I half agree with everything else you said

[Scorpius]

The SSG is way too overpowered. I guess it's why they call it the SUPER shotgun, ey?

[Rainne]

Speedrunners shouldn't skip things that aren't meant to be skipped. They should play the level quickly, rather than not playing the level by avoiding major parts of it.

 

Or at least a separate category for proper speedruns.

[Muscle Witch]

Controversial opinion: one should not have to read the entirety of a 4-year-Old thread before posting in it. So, sorry if some of these have already been said.

 

•The Icon of Sin is a garbage final boss. Give me a real enemy to fight, don’t just have me shoot at a wall while random minions swarm around.

 

•The archvile is one of the most fun enemies to fight. You need to either duck for cover when he starts up his flame attack, which tests your knowledge of the immediate and architecture; or, interrupt it with a very precisely timed attack of your own. Since he’s going to resurrect the enemies you just killed, you have to beat him fast. That creates a tense, exiting scenario.

 

•Doom should be run at no greater than 800x600 resolution. Past that, you start to lose a certain grunginess that I find essential to the game’s atmosphere.

Edited January 26, 2020 by Muscle Witch

[Asking4Id]

Is it true TNT is usually considered the worst Doom game? I read that in a Youtube comment specifically about the worst game (not sure if true). If so, my controversial opinion is TNT is great. People have vastly different opinions in any case.

[Firedust]

9 hours ago, Scorpius said:

The SSG is way too overpowered. I guess it's why they call it the SUPER shotgun, ey?

Man, the Doom SSG is one of the most iconic FPS weapons of all time. There's something inherently satisfying about one-shotting a pinkie or killing three imps with it. Love it.

 

Here's mine: Requiem is a great example of why striving to release a 32-map megawad for the sake of it is not the best idea in the world. The short maps are pointless and, for the most part, not good. They just drag the entire experience down. Should've left those out and released it without them, because, well, its top maps are truly amazing and fun to play.

[Archanhell]

Eh I guess I'll give out mine, beforehand not to sound any rude~

 

1) Alien Vendetta is easily one of the most overrated WADs I've played, as someone who uses to play on DoomSeeker ClusterF••• with other people, the fact that the same maps are always chosen more than half of the time made me notice that.

2) I don't like Slaughtermaps at all, they may have good map designs but that's all, the fact they just add a inhumane number of monsters and say "Hey yeah, this is a Slaughter wad, kill hundreds of enemies on your path with all these weapons and destroy your PC in seconds" is just completely boring gameplay-wise and all the creativity used to make the levels greatly rich visually could be used to make mapsets with a interesting gameplay and actual objectives. (Not meant as an offense to all those people who make this kind of WADs.)

3) DooM 3 is a good game despite many things told about it, the ambience and the feeling that you get when playing it is unique and should be considered not a old reboot but a spinoff of the series, I would love to see some kind of mix between Doom 3 and D64 to create a Lovecraftian spinoff of the main series, where instead of your usual Demons you fight.. ..Well, Eldritch Demons!

4) The best weapon is the Super Shotgun, and though the BFG is greatly superior, in a sense it can't beat that almighty double barreled gun.

5) Before DooM 2016 and the upcoming Eternal, all the weapons on their predecessors are direct upgrades and do not have a defined role that makes you use all of them instead of sticking with a single weapon, thus while I enormously love the game, when you analyze the weapons deeper they kind of suck except for the two above ones, this could be "easily" fixed, making even the Pistol better (Which I am trying to do on my current project with my buds).

6) I have not played "vanilla" Eviternity and it's incredible on many ways, but sadly I have to say that Episode 1 is not that great, despite the theme it just feels kind of.. "weird"? to play through it, and I'll shamefully admit that I cheated through them just to get to the final map and play from Episode 2, I have not played the rest still.

7) The "scary" tracks of DooM are the best and I'd love to see more like those on the future, kind of like how PSX DooM and DooM 64 did.

8) Unlike DooM 2016 and Eternal, both I and II don't really have that much Lore and I feel like it could have had much more.

9) This is not something from the present, but the fact that it was very common in the past to make every seventh map on a WAD some copy of Dead Simple is annoying and unoriginal at all.

10) DooM II City levels are not cool.
 

 

 

 

[cnidaria]

The hard coded RNG on all damage is completely unnecessary at best and downright frustrating at worst

 

Invuls negative screen tint is pointless and annoying

 

Any form of unavoidable damage or "health checks" as I call them are a symptom of piss poor design - all well made maps should be beatable without taking any damage if one is careful and meticulous enough

 

Unmarked teleporters can also go to hell and stay there. In general I hate any map elements that require foreknowledge to beat. I don't mean all traps, I think most of Plutonia is beatable blind on UV if one is careful enough, but some maps go too far with instadeath on the first run whilst being zero threat once you know it's there. I love blind playing maps so this really turns me off of a WAD

 

- neither the Archvile or Pain Elemental are that big of a deal. The Archvile for all of the reasons outlined by others and the Pain Elemental because it often makes things easier by causing so much infighting and they are so easy to fight by just getting right up in their face anyway. The Revenant is the most dangerous vanilla enemy by far, it's not even close

Edited January 26, 2020 by cnidaria

[Mortrixs19]

Most of Doom 1 sucks, Doom 2 is a better game.

 

Brutal doom haters are as annoying as the Brutal doom fanboys.

 

TNT: Evilution should've been replaced with Memento Mori.

 

Randomizer mods are bad.

 

I find the platforming sections in Doom eternal great as well as the arcade-like pickups.

 

Andrew Hushult (I forgot his last name) should've done the music in doom 2016 

 

 

 

 

[trikz]

can you guys check out my first youtube video its about a doom mod ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acAhOXTFVYk&t=55s

[KillPixel]

My ranking of Doom from best to worst (currently):

Doom II: The Plutonia Experiment
The Ultimate Doom
Doom 3
Doom II: Evilution
Doom II
Doom 2016
Doom 3: Resurrection of Evil
Doom 64

[Horus]

2 hours ago, cnidaria said:

Any form of unavoidable damage or "health checks" as I call them are a symptom of piss poor design - all well made maps should be beatable without taking any damage if one is careful and meticulous enough

 

I guess you don't like slaughter maps then..

[baja blast rd.]

11 hours ago, Rainne said:

Speedrunners shouldn't skip things that aren't meant to be skipped. They should play the level quickly, rather than not playing the level by avoiding major parts of it.

 

Or at least a separate category for proper speedruns.

 

Would never work for a lot of reasons. 

 

One reason of many is rule-maintenance effort: Every map would need its own lengthy 'rulebook' of verboten approaches. It'd have to constantly evolve as the route does. You'd have to interview the mapper to figure out what they 'meant' or intended'. Some mappers put tricks and skips and shortcuts in their maps; sometimes mappers miss out on what is mechanically possible in their own maps, even basic stuff. (If you want to avoid that last part, the work of deciding what is permissible will fall on the runners' hands. And if you're a non-runner, you might already be underestimating how murky the distinction between 'tricks' and 'non-tricks' can get.)
 

Anyway, I'll close with a run that has one (superfluous for progression) trick that saves a few seconds, yet still manages to avoid the entire map.

 

 

[Rainne]

6 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

Every map would need its own lengthy 'rulebook' of what is allowed or permitted along the 'full route'.

As I understand it, UV-Max already has to make exceptions for unobtainable secrets, such as MAP15. These are all judgement calls, and remain as such even after some have been proven possible, like MAP15 100% secrets, or MAP30 Pacifist. Should those entire categories be invalidated too, even for maps everyone agrees on the requirements for, just because of some exceptions to rulesets that are otherwise clear in their intent?

 

In most cases, the mapper's intent is obvious, so there's no excuse for treating all maps as vague, mysterious things that skilled speedrunners can't hope to comprehend. Beyond that, it can be defined relatively simply as "don't use any technique that can only be done by exploiting engine bugs", such as wallgrabs or void glides. Most speedrunning is done in IWAD maps, for which author intent has already been largely established, and which are a finite set of maps to consider when drawing up a rulebook. There are some gray areas such as rocket jumping (for example, it's the intended way to reach the secret exit in E3M6 and therefore a valid use of the technique), but these only have to be settled for the category as a whole, rather than negotiated for each individual map.

 

And basically, just play the damn map rather than avoiding the damn map. Oh hey, wonder how they handle these fights in MAP27? Never mind, everyone just tricks the archvile into opening the door to the exit, so that's the only part of the map you get to see people demonstrating excellence at.

[cnidaria]

1 hour ago, Horus said:

 

I guess you don't like slaughter maps then..

 

I love slaughter maps, but you know what to expect with them. Walking into a large courtyard and having 80 large enemies spawn in is less threatening than going through an unmarked teleporter and having 4 sergeants waiting at your rear ready to instantly delete your up till now carefully maintained combat armour...