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Post Your Controversial Opinions About Doom

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4 hours ago, seed said:

 

That's not even the only bad part of Build, the piss poor collision detection can lead to all sorts of weird deaths in these games. Wallrunning, squeezing between tight corridors/map props close to one another, trying to go into sharp corners, running into walls, etc... 

 

Yeah, this fundamental part of Build is hopelessly broken...

 

Also here's another hot take - bug fixes, including engine fixes, do not make a game more "impure", even if it results in losing demo capabilities.

 

I enjoy that "feature", especially in Blood where you can use it to kill the two zombies at the beginning of the game.

I was actually playing Doom last night and I was standing directly beneath a door so it would stay open without me having to activate it and I thought to myself this would never happen in a Build engine game as I would be dead.

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I think my most controversial opinions on Doom would be about a part of modern usermaps, but being that stating such in detail would have a mathematically estimated 99.9% chance of spawning a meaningless discussion, I'd rather be naive about it.

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16 hours ago, Spectre01 said:

Considering the demo compatibility of PRBoom+, you're getting all the vanilla bugs in the actual gameplay.

Only if I leave them turned on.

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On 2/12/2020 at 9:18 PM, M00DER said:

Doom 2 introduced cool new enemies and a very satisfying weapon but some maps are pretty bad compared to the overall level design from doom 1.

I agree. But the 'bad' maps are sometimes still fun to play.

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10 hours ago, Juza said:

I think my most controversial opinions on Doom would be about a part of modern usermaps, but being that stating such in detail would have a mathematically estimated 99.9% chance of spawning a meaningless discussion, I'd rather be naive about it.

Hey! This guy is sneak-dissin' slaughter maps! Let's get him!

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Very large, heavily detailed maps are great to look at but, those are also kinda boring to play.

 

12 hours ago, Asking4Id said:

There shouldn't be 23,211 monsters on a map.

Agreed, 22,000 is more than enough.

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6 minutes ago, DiamondDude11 said:

I got another one.
Shotgunners are more obnoxious than chaingunners. Or any other hitscanners, for that matter.

I very much see it that way, too. Yeah, chainers melt faces if left unchecked, but they always do the same thing, which is standing still, and hurling hitscans. Shotgunners are a fair bit more random in their behaviour, and the burst of 45 points worth of damage is nothing to sneeze at either.

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Shotgunners are also far easier to remove by precise Chaingun-tapping or using the regular boomstick. Chaingunners' higher HP also makes them more likely to stick around longer to cause damage in groups of enemies.

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In my opinion, Chainsaw is a bad weapon. It does not deal that much damage, and enemies that are being attacked can still easily damage you. I prefer berserk pack, which requires more movement, but allows for less HP loss, and more damage dealt to enemies.

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The infinite save system ruins the interest of the game for me on most wads. The player shouldn't be allowed to save at any time. 

 

Actually, I really like the save system which consists of retrieving certain items.  For example, in Tomb Raider 3, you had to find crystals. In Resident Evil it was ribbons.

As a result, I would have seen some sort of object that you could put in the maps and that would have the sole purpose of allowing the player to save.

 

If you like savescumming , turn the game on godmode ! (just joking)

 

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53 minutes ago, Roofi said:

The infinite save system ruins the interest of the game for me on most wads. The player shouldn't be allowed to save at any time. 

 

Actually, I really like the save system which consists of retrieving certain items.  For example, in Tomb Raider 3, you had to find crystals. In Resident Evil it was ribbons.

As a result, I would have seen some sort of object that you could put in the maps and that would have the sole purpose of allowing the player to save.

 

If you like savescumming , turn the game on godmode ! (just joking)

 

Wrath: Aeon of Ruin has an item based save system like this, I quite enjoyed it.  Makes you think about whether you really want to drop a save or not.  I wouldn't mind a mod that added this functionality to Doom, but it would definitely require Zdoom scripting.

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The thing about that kind of save system is that (for people that like to save regularly) it would only work in a map designed for it, which the majority of them just aren't. I don't even know if ZDoom scripting could handle it, saving is a pretty integral part of the engine.

 

Anyhow if you don't like it you can just not play with saves, or limit yourself to 1 save per 100 kills, or something.

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5 hours ago, NieMaMordy said:

In my opinion, Chainsaw is a bad weapon. It does not deal that much damage, and enemies that are being attacked can still easily damage you. I prefer berserk pack, which requires more movement, but allows for less HP loss, and more damage dealt to enemies.

In Heretic, I've come to prefer the Staff (fists) over the Gauntlets (chainsaw) for that reason, plus another: unlike the fists, the staff also pushes the target back a bit. With some careful footwork, you can keep melee enemies at bay more readily than with the Gauntlets; with skill rather than sheer pain-chance luck.

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Okay, here's the only controversial personal opinion I've been saving to myself for a while:

 

Berserk's extreme range of damage output is more bothersome than Chainsaw's inherently low damage-per-second values. Can you punch a full HP lost soul and secure its death? No, and more often than not the immediate response is a nasty kiss on the face of a disgusted marine, if only they brushed their teeth in the morning... Now, can you cut a lost soul in half with minimal risk? Of course, a stunned lost soul is incapable of operating, which chainsaw does very effectively 100% of the times. The same principle applies to (single) pain elementals, plus chainsaw locks it on your bubble, a punch might scare it too much and make it fly backwards like a hummingbird.

 

Let's talk imps, ever since I started sawing imps over punching when the opportunity arrives, it's a little cleaner in comparison, albeit a slower process with groups, but I can get consistent results without a digit of health loss (they stun and mostly die in one second). Berserk could be fun and quicker in ideal situations, even riskier when imps don't flinch, but they tend to tank 1-2 hits regularly and there's the not-so-rare occasion of a 3-hit imp followed by normal death frames, it quickly demotivates me to keep using it, similar to when the shotgun does continuously crap damage values, blame it on the blockmap bug too. I want imps to turn into goop everytime, not be like "OOoo that hurt lol". Likewise, while it's always tempting to punch a gunner who's sneaking around a corner, and I do it whenever I can, it's baffling when a sergeant gets away with it and fires back a "x>30"-points accurate shot, worse with chaingunners. Chainsaw shuts their mouth completely!... most of the times... more than berserk for sure.

 

I concede that pinkies/spectres very very rarely get a bite (or two in Valiant, though that's a balance oversight imo). However, it'd be more frequent if I didn't take steps back in the process of sawing, so that's when I'm impartial, either zerk or saw is fine and meh at the same time, because a 5-punches kill is ugly. 

 

Tyson/jason including the rest of the bestiary falls into a more niche select of options. Hell knights, revenants and barons are the group of easier mid-HP to kill with berserk, since their hitboxes are small. Archviles would go in that group too, but there needs to be a wall in the middle. Cacodemons, mancubi, spiders of both sizes and cyberdemons don't grab my attention. I tried with cybers, but the most I get is eight or so punches in 4 minutes with a lot of patience, so I rather leave that to people who know better how to do it faster. Not too long ago I unlocked a new world of chainsaw usage against some of these species in very unorthodox cases, but that's a next-level niche I'm not going to talk about right now. 

 

The one thing that both tools have in common, actually every hitscan coded weapon, is that you have to bare with the blockmap bug, so if you are getting clawed by an imp as you're trying to slice it, that may not be the chainsaw's fault, neither the player's, unless the imp was just about to attack. 

 

Anyways, outside of some subjectivity in the mix, chainsaw slows down combat, berserk doesn't speed it up that much generally speaking, both demand proximity, agility, leaving out your comfort zone, and the rest is entirely on the player's skill. The tl;dr opinion is that I think the chainsaw is slated because most people don't want to learn to use it well without eating loads of damage, which I'm not blaming them since I used to dislike it before and I'm not an expert or a woodcutter, it takes practice and not everyone is willing to spend time on that. 

 

1 hour ago, Rainne said:

In Heretic, I've come to prefer the Staff (fists) over the Gauntlets (chainsaw) for that reason, plus another: unlike the fists, the staff also pushes the target back a bit. With some careful footwork, you can keep melee enemies at bay more readily than with the Gauntlets; with skill rather than sheer pain-chance luck.

 

Majority of enemies in Heretic have a lower pain chance and lower mass than their Doom most similar counterparts (e.g. golem-pinky), not to forget that gauntlets inflict a bit less damage than chainsaw, so that's why they're far less convenient against anything that isn't a gargoyle if health loss is big deal. On the other side, tomed gauntlets are one of the most OP tools among the rest. That's poor balancing from the game's creators. Normal gauntlets with zdoom's collision detection is the best you can get out of them. 

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While I do like that the gauntlets are not entirely a safe weapon to use against most enemies in heretic, they are also waay faster at killing stuff than the staff in every scenario; just get used to holding the backwards key and you'll take far less dmg while using them.

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-I never got the people that REFUSE to use the BFG on common enemies, or even groups of tough enemies, to save it for the "bosses" (Who get two-shotted anyways). There are scenarios where the BFG will actually save you ammo.
-I don't really know how controversial this one is but pitch-black mazes is the worst trope in Doom level design.
-Doom 3 isn't a "bad Doom game", it's a bad game in general, and aged like milk.
-More people should play Strife

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5 hours ago, plums said:

The thing about that kind of save system is that (for people that like to save regularly) it would only work in a map designed for it, which the majority of them just aren't. I don't even know if ZDoom scripting could handle it, saving is a pretty integral part of the engine.

 

Anyhow if you don't like it you can just not play with saves, or limit yourself to 1 save per 100 kills, or something.

Maybe we need an option/mode/mod that allows you to save only when you have a save token. And you start each map with 1 token and earn 1 each time you kill a boss and each time you pick up a key, soulsphere, megasphere, berserk or invincibility.

 

I was thinking of autosaves at first but there are too many traps activated when picking up keys etc, you don't want to save at that specific moment.

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42 minutes ago, Szuran said:

The perfect Doom game would have the atmosphere of Doom 3 and the gameplay of Doom 1 and 2.

And that's exactly what DOOM 64 is!

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I am pretty confident I am the only person on the planet who thinks a Doom 2 Megawad that keeps the SSG and Backpack pickup findable only in secret maps 31 and 32 is an awesome idea that nobody has had the courage to try.

 

Also the biggest blunder of the 3DO port was the absolutely criminal act of not being able to deliver to us the 90s FMV we so desperately needed for the franchise.

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4 minutes ago, Stale Meat said:

I am pretty confident I am the only person on the planet who thinks a Doom 2 Megawad that keeps the SSG and Backpack pickup findable only in secret maps 31 and 32 is an awesome idea that nobody has had the courage to try.

Listen, dawg, I'm not gonna play a megawad's worth of shooting Mancubi, Hellknights, Archviles and Revenants with the single shotgun.

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4 minutes ago, VGA said:

Listen, dawg, I'm not gonna play a megawad's worth of shooting Mancubi, Hellknights, Archviles and Revenants with the single shotgun.

I can see where they're coming from, but I don't think I'd be okay with having only 50 rockets and 300 plasma cells most of the time, as well.

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14 minutes ago, Stale Meat said:

I am pretty confident I am the only person on the planet who thinks a Doom 2 Megawad that keeps the SSG and Backpack pickup findable only in secret maps 31 and 32 is an awesome idea that nobody has had the courage to try.

Sure, just don't spam the player with shell boxes and put the Rocket Launcher, Plasma Rifle, and ample ammunition for both in every map. The SSG is only "OP" because shells are so common in maps compared to higher tier ammo. Also, give me Valiant's Chaingun with enough bullets and I won't touch the SSG.

 

2 minutes ago, taufan99 said:

I can see where they're coming from, but I don't think I'd be okay with having only 50 rockets and 300 plasma cells most of the time, as well.

50 rockets is still A LOT of firepower. 100 rockets is rather ridiculous if you compare how many enemies you can kill with them compared to other ammo types.

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