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Post Your Controversial Opinions About Doom

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2 minutes ago, Matthias said:

I kill cacos and elementals with it... lots of ammo saved .D

 

I prefer using my fists :D .

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4 hours ago, erzboesewicht said:

Controversial: I like TNT Evilution's "Mount Pain". It's long and grindy but feels like an adventure. Gameplay is varied - think of the radsuit run -, you have some decent fights like the two arachnotron areas and the imp slaughter, and the outdoor area with the Lost Soul mountain in the background is just beautiful.

 

 

I think your general opinion about the first half of Hell Revealed isn't that controversial - there are many, including me, who consider most of these maps mediocre or directly bad (although I like particularly map 14 from pistol start, it feels really satisfying once you manage to troll the monsters back and get a foothold). But the classic maps which many find "inspirational" are in the latter half, particularly 22, 24 and 26 which are in my opinion as a mediocre player really challenging and not just trollish, but 15 and 16 are also pretty memorable - you can give them a try directly if you want. (Cyberdreams is really cool, however, and I don't think that's controversial ...)

Maybe I will give it a try again sometime.

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11 hours ago, whirledtsar said:

Why would a new player using a piece of software alleging to be a port of the original be "behooved" to spend their time researching the specifics of how accurate it is? Why would they ever think to google "jumping in Doom" without foreknowledge? It's completely reasonable and not "lazy" for them to jump into a game without research. 

 

Anybody who has ever broken a map partially or entirely by way of jumping, or got stuck in a place they should not have been able to reach under normal circumstances, might be asking themselves some questions, such as:

-"Am I meant to be able to get to this place in this map?"
-"Am I really supposed not to fight any of the monsters in Doom2 map 07? And why the hell are stairs raising after I kill them? Why would anybody need them?"

-"Why should I go through the ordeal of raising these pillars, when I can instead jump across and skip like half the map?"

-"Why is my favourite YouTube classic Doom channel never using jumps at all when they play these maps that I can't beat?"

-"Why is IcarusLives complaining about this one gap in Maskim Xul that he couldn't cross? Does he not know how to jump?"

-"Why does twitch chat make jokes about just jumping out of a tight situation? I do it all the time. Am I doing something wrong?"

-"Why do these speedrunners never take shortcuts with jumps, when those would save them so many seconds?"
-"Why does this text file that I downloaded with this award-winning GZDoom project say that jumping is not allowed?"
-"Why does John Romero say on his twitter account that jumping in SIGIL is cheating?"

-"Why can I not jump in the steam version of classic Doom that runs in DOSBOX?"

 

Now, I will concede that sometimes people are surprisingly slow on the uptake, never mind the few hard-assed pricks who won't think twice about anything in spite of any and all reasons given, and consequences be damned. And, fair enough, having a screen message that tells players about the problems that might result when they jump around with reckless abandon would be better... But do you seriously think that nobody would get tipped off by any of these questions eventually, and google around for less than 5 minutes after the fact? It seems very unlikely to me, to be honest.

 

Frankly, at this point I'm almost willing to put this to the test, and fire up a thread where people can say how they found out that jumping in classic Doom wasn't possible, how long they played up to that point while being entirely unaware, and how much effort it took for them to get to these results.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Frankly, at this point I'm almost willing to put this to the test, and fire up a thread where people can say how they found out that jumping in classic Doom wasn't possible, how long they played up to that point while being entirely unaware, and how much effort it took for them to get to these results.

 

Not long really, the instant I started using other ports than GZDoom I realized "wait wtf, where's my jump key? What's up?" Then I did a quick search and would you look at that, jumping was a feature that never existed in Doom. That's also how I found that freelook is cheating by reaching areas and switches I should not be able to get to at the given time. *shrugs*

 

I honestly just don't get why people are so defensive at this point. It looks like defending lack of knowledge and an extremely basic understanding of how the game played like in 1993, which means they're "not really interested in the game they're playing" - © NIH 2020. And saying that one should not be interested in the port they're using and its features is basically defending ignorance too. If it's too much effort, then just play it in DOSBox and call it a day - ah, wait, that will likely require fiddling with config variables and setting it up correctly in order to work.

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giggle I agree that people who don't care about the game in the same manner as I do should have their Doom licenses revoked immediately

 

Doom's a game, the rules of any game can be modified to the player's taste when it's not being undertaken as a sport. if someone jump-crouched through some of the levels in Memento Mori while spamming the stupid brutal taunt button then good for them :)))))))))))))))))) killing the Icon of Sin with mouse-aiming is now perfectly canon to the game, prove me wrong

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31 minutes ago, yakfak said:

giggle I agree that people who don't care about the game in the same manner as I do should have their Doom licenses revoked immediately

 

RIGHT NOW, YOU HEAR ME!!!!!

 

Not really, no, and this wasn't even implied or alluded to. At this point I think people just refuse to understand the opposing view, there's no way this conversation would just keep going and going without reaching anything after the same thing was explained over and over again in different forms.

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I actually like mouselook, the one that let's me aim where ever i like.

 

Come at me purists.

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9 hours ago, LordBehemoth said:

The super shotgun is stupidly boring. Terribly inefficient against low tier enemies, and a brain dead grind against every other enemy.

Shoot it at a group of low tier enemies and it'll kill more with 2 shells than using them on the normal shotgun, shoot it at a Cyberdemon and you're basically hitting it with rockets.

But yeah it's not as fun as rockets in general or a chaingun against low tier enemies.

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5 minutes ago, Senor500 said:

Shoot it at a group of low tier enemies and it'll kill more with 2 shells than using them on the normal shotgun, shoot it at a Cyberdemon and you're basically hitting it with rockets.

But yeah it's not as fun as rockets in general or a chaingun against low tier enemies.

Given the choice between the 2, I actually find myself using it against Cyberdemons now more often than rockets. It just feels much more accurate and effective to me, but that may be because I don't like trying to line up all my rocket shots. I like to charge towards revenants on higher ground and let the launcher do the rest!

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, 666shooter said:

Given the choice between the 2, I actually find myself using it against Cyberdemons now more often than rockets. It just feels much more accurate and effective to me

 

That's because SSG is actually more effective against Cyberdemon than the rockets. Cyberdemon and SMM are immune to splash damage and thus they only take the primary damage (from direct hit) of the rocket. In practice, this is roughly 50% damage immunity from rocket hits. Thus each SSG shot does roughly the same amount of damage to them as 2 rockets.

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, ReaperAA said:

That's because SSG is actually more effective against Cyberdemon than the rockets.

Is it, though?
 

image.png.ac1e59541653750fdc28bb5d12ebb4f6.pngimage.png.cf05e81ab5459ed93b8abdddce7b6cb5.png

 

Let's say the RL does 90 damage to the cyb per hit, and the SSG does 200 per hit (for the sake of easy maths).

 

Cybers have 4000 HP.

If we use the 200 damage average per shot fired, 20 shots from the SSG will kill the cybie after roughly 32 seconds. (It will take longer with vanilla RNG)
The RL, with 90 damage on average, will need 45 shots to kill the cybie. With 105 shots per minute this means most certainly it will take less than half a minute, which is faster than the SSG.

 

So, while the blast damage of the RL is wasted on the cyberdemon, it still is faster than the SSG. So the RL is more effective, but it might be less efficient, if the rockets are better spent on something else.

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Using the SSG against a group of imps/zombies and killing a bunch of them with one shot is actually one of the things I find most satisfying in Doom

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6 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Frankly, at this point I'm almost willing to put this to the test, and fire up a thread where people can say how they found out that jumping in classic Doom wasn't possible, how long they played up to that point while being entirely unaware, and how much effort it took for them to get to these results.

HOW DO I GET THE RED KEY ON MAP02???

 

35 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

So, while the blast damage of the RL is wasted on the cyberdemon, it still is faster than the SSG. So the RL is more effective, but it might be less efficient, if the rockets are better spent on something else.

The RL is also much more effective from a distance, if you can aim reasonably well. But I think Plasma would be even more effective from a distance, whereas a BFG is obviously the best up close.

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3 minutes ago, dr_st said:

The RL is also much more effective from a distance, if you can aim reasonably well. But I think Plasma would be even more effective from a distance, whereas a BFG is obviously the best up close.

To be fair, many weapons are more effective than the SSG from a distance. Depending on distance, you might even go so far as to argue that the damn pistol is better than the SSG, given the right circumstances. But yeah, without looking at the numbers.... Fuck it.... I'll look at the numbers... 22.5 average damage at 700 shots per minute... Yup, definitely much faster.

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Another factor to the rockets or shells issue is that you can't walk ten meters in Doom levels without picking up a couple of shellboxes. Rockets are a lot more rare.

 

Did you know that, across all four IWADs, you get up to 32572 shotgun shells, but only 6255 rockets? I've counted them.

 

(Actually I took the numbers from the Doom wiki. Number of rockets across all four IWADs, + 5 times number of rocket boxes, + 2 times number of rocket launchers, + number of backpacks; versus 4 times number of 4-shell pickups, + 20 times number of shell boxes, + 4 times number of backpacks, + 8 times number of shotguns and SSG combined, +4 times number of zombie sergeants.)

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@Gez

Reminds me of that Russian anecdote (dunno if true or not) about the guy who wrote something like this to the match factory:

“I’ve been counting matches in your boxes for 11 years - sometimes there are 59, sometimes 60, and sometimes 58. Are you all out of your minds there?”

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14 hours ago, LordBehemoth said:

The super shotgun is stupidly boring. Terribly inefficient against low tier enemies, and a brain dead grind against every other enemy.

And I thought that the shotgun would be even boring and tedious in Doom 1..........

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5 hours ago, DRMman said:

I actually like mouselook, the one that let's me aim where ever i like.

 

Come at me purists.

I'll believe you if you don't use autoaim.

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4 hours ago, Horus said:

Using the SSG against a group of imps/zombies and killing a bunch of them with one shot is actually one of the things I find most satisfying in Doom

 

But what's controversial about it? Everyone likes this ;P

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Posted (edited)

I disagree, if a bunch of zombies are clustered together close enough for the SSG to kill them, then a rocket is much more satisfying.

Edited by Gez

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I really like the use of exit signage to indicate the end of a level.  Even if it doesn't fit the theme of the level or the environment that's being suggested.  Especially if it doesn't fit the theme of the level or the environment that's being suggested.  I love slogging my way through an infernal landscape of flesh and magma and scorched red rocks, or a dungeon haunted by the tormented souls of the condemned, or a Technicolor alien space-pace, or a Mesoamerican ruin complex, or any other environment, and there at the end of it, hanging from the ceiling or pinned to the wall, as gleefully incongruous as you like, is the familiar EXITSIGN texture to let you know that you've reached your goal.  I feel a twinge of disappointment when it doesn't show up.

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On 5/5/2020 at 10:44 PM, Nine Inch Heels said:

If we use the 200 damage average per shot fired, 20 shots from the SSG will kill the cybie after roughly 32 seconds. (It will take longer with vanilla RNG)

The RL, with 90 damage on average, will need 45 shots to kill the cybie. With 105 shots per minute this means most certainly it will take less than half a minute, which is faster than the SSG.

 

Only that such numbers matter only if Cybie is pinned in place with its ass turned to your face and cannot retaliate -unless you forget the importance of foreplay, that is.

 

In actual combat, getting 45 accurate dead-on rocket shots while moving, avoiding your own splash damage, dodging the cybie's own rockets etc. can be much harder than getting 20 SSG shots in. The latter, you could even perform from a reasonably shielded window/opening, by turkey-shooting poor cybie. Actually, in such a situation, even the standard SG or chaingun would be faster -unless you have m4d sp33drunn1ng sk1llz and you can spam 100% accurate rockets while standing just 10 meters away from the cybedemon and dodging all of his volleys. All the time.

 

N.B., ironically it might be easier to kill a cyberdemon with rockets on Nightmare! difficulty, because you can trick it into constantly firing without moving. Not as good as pinning it down on a bed, Cybie style, but still exploitable.

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