Post Your Opinions About Doom (Whether Controversial or Not)

[joe-ilya]

ID software were always lazy and pushed games out of the door as quick as they could. They made 7 commander keen games in two years, made wolf3d in one year, made the first two doom games in 2 years.

[BigDickBzzrak]

joe-ilya said:

ID software were always EFFICIENT AND HARD-WORKING and pushed games out of the door as quick as they could. They made 7 commander keen games in two years, made wolf3d in one year, made the first two doom games in 2 years.

ftfy

[Voros]

Oddly it took more then 10 years for Doom 16 to emerge.

[VGamingJunkie]

Back then, games were very simple and could be hammered out by small teams. Times have changed.

[Pirx]

MetroidJunkie said:

Back then, games were very simple and could be hammered out by small teams. Times have changed.

Thats true. I remember Carmack commenting on this after he left id. apparently he would have preferred small teams to lead the industry as back then. His decision to keep id small might have been ok when Romero left, but in the long run it didn't do them any good as they couldn't keep up with companies with a more industrial approach.

[jazzmaster9]

Maes said:

After Doom II, id got pretty much lazy and focused on milking the Doom franchise for all that it was worth till our very days (and even Doom II was kind of a "least effort" sequel).

I believe Id were working on Quake, or at least the early engine, while this "Milking" is going on.
(Making money seems to be the most hated thing on the internet)

[VGA]

I think the problem with Doom 2 is that Petersen had to create many more maps than Romero and McGee combined, so the detailing and quality suffered. Just an early sign of the lazy diva syndrome that would plague some of the id staff later.

If Carmack was also just counting money and not busting his ass deep in the code, we would never get the Quake engine.

And they abandoned the idea of episodes, this reduces the sense of themes, progression and achievement.

The new enemies are amazing though, without them Doom would be a shell of its current self. General interest in the vanilla gameplay would be much reduced.

[Szuran]

Okay, I gotta dig out this thread. I'm playing D2016 right now and I've noticed I really, really, REALLY don't like Mick Gordon's soundtrack. It's mostly noise in the shape of a beat. There's barely any melody, it's overly simplistic, and the atmosphere is always the same.

 

However, I love listed to the composer talking about how he made these sounds. But sounds themselves - nah, I find them boring.

[whirledtsar]

Well its been 3 years and some change, so there's more to talk about.

 

The new enemies in Eviternity are almost all really poorly-balanced and unfun to fight. Theyre all basically "what if we took this enemy but made it more difficult", which is the least creative & interesting type of custom monster. Super pinkies just slow gameplay down, the hitscan/rocket barons are tedious, and the mancuball-spitting cacodemons are absurdly fast. The plasma dudes are the only addition that actually feels fair to fight and fills a new niche.

[snapshot]

Wow, Voros, this thread is such a throwback.

[baja blast rd.]

I would not have started this thread any year past 2016. :P 

[Super Mighty G]

33 minutes ago, Szuran said:

Okay, I gotta dig out this thread. I'm playing D2016 right now and I've noticed I really, really, REALLY don't like Mick Gordon's soundtrack. It's mostly noise in the shape of a beat. There's barely any melody, it's overly simplistic, and the atmosphere is always the same.

 

However, I love listed to the composer talking about how he made these sounds. But sounds themselves - nah, I find them boring.

I've never cared for the 2016 soundtrack either. It suites the tone fine but I don't actually like listening to it, the only exception being the excerpt that plays during the main title and at the end of each level.

 

PS Arch-Vile is the best enemy fight me

[D4NUK1]

Alpha Lost Souls are a nigthmare

[Brütehead]

It's not a challenge to beat an Ach-Vile in a large open arena with little to no cover.

 

Best case scenario, I cheese the whole fight by hiding behind a scrap of map geometry. Worse case scenario, I brute force my way through and lose at lest 50% of my health in the process. Both options aren't fun.

 

(Edit)

Just to clarify, this Arch-Vile usage is boring, not the enemy.

Edited January 25, 2020 by Scüm-head

[Arbys550]

I will go ahead and agree with the comments about the D2016 soundtrack. I've never really associated doom with metal, although I didnt play doom until it was old so that may be why. For me I just filter the music out of my head and ignore it. I think I would enjoy a wider variety of genres in the soundtrack. It seems to me like every time a fight starts, it plays the same song. Level specific battle music would go a long way for me.

 

And also pain elementals are awesome.

 

And also revenant spam is fun and a good way to spice up a map.

 

And also slaughter is awesome.

 

And also:

@whirledtsar (Cant figure out how to quote in an edit)

 

I agree about eviternity. I thought most of the new monsters were pretty annoying personally. I don't like any new monsters in wads though, so it's not really eviternity's fault. I strongly disliked the boss too. I was completely out of ammo and he was so fast and annoying that I just quit and didnt finish the wad. I also quit mayhem orange edition on map02 because of the custom monster.

Edited January 24, 2020 by Arbys550

[Taurus Daggerknight]

On 10/23/2016 at 6:04 AM, Maes said:

After Doom II, id got pretty much lazy and focused on milking the Doom franchise for all that it was worth till our very days (and even Doom II was kind of a "least effort" sequel).

 

Kind of feel like that's selling Doom 3 real short, considering what a technical marvel that game was on release. Maybe not the best FPS ever, but one cannot sneeze at how damn revolutionary that game was in the visual/ aesthetic department, next to literally anything else at the time. Definitely not an "easy money" bid, that one. (And this is coming from someone for whom Doom 3 missed the mark in a lot of ways, mind). 

 

As for my most certainly unpopular Doom opinion: the base game's systems are not nearly as deep and complex as people give it credit for. For the time, sure, but the way I see some people discuss classic Doom, you'd think they were talking about Rainbow Six (originals, not the post-Vegas stuff). Great, yes, fun, yes, inspiring, hell yes... but not the single most perfectly crafted system of depth and complexity that has ever existed in PC gaming. 

 

[And before anyone dog-piles on me for that; again, that is in no way me saying that it isn't/ wasn't great. Just that other games since then have most certainly added notes that Doom clearly did not have, and certainly benefited from via the modding scenes efforts to add them in]. 

 

[Super Mighty G]

43 minutes ago, Scüm-head said:

It's not a challenge to beat an Achvile in a large open arena with little to no cover.

 

Best case scenario, I cheese the whole fight by hiding behind a scrap of map geometry. Worse case scenario, I brute force my way through and lose at lest 50% of my health in the process. Both options aren't fun.

You're thinking too basic. Arch-Vile can be more versatile than that. Also counterplaying the monster isn't cheesing. Mouse aiming the Icon of Sin to death is cheesing.

[DuckReconMajor]

3 hours ago, rdwpa said:

I would not have started this thread any year past 2016. :P 

 

I wish "WEENIEMAP" had caught on. Or did it?

[Brütehead]

18 minutes ago, Super Mighty G said:

You're thinking too basic. Arch-Vile can be more versatile than that. Also counterplaying the monster isn't cheesing. Mouse aiming the Icon of Sin to death is cheesing.

You got me all wrong. The Arch-Vile is a great monster and counterplaying his flame attack is essential. It's their placement and usage I hate.

75% of Arch-Vile encounters look like this. This isn't fun!

 

 

Just use the Ol' Archy differently. For example: 

The player walks into a sizable room full of cover, plenty of zombiemen, and a key at the end. Kill the zombiemen, pick up the key, and then BOOM! Two Arch-Viles teleport in start resurrecting zombies! Now you're dashing from cover to cover attacking the two Archviles, all while they are flanking you and resurrecting zombieman to act as meat shields and plink at your health. That's a proper Arch-Vile fight!

[Kappes Buur]

DOOM is a fun game to calm the nerves from a stressful workday.

[RonnieJamesDiner]

16 minutes ago, Scüm-head said:

75% of Arch-Vile encounters look like this. This isn't fun!

 

What pwads/maps have you been playing?? Because I agree, that wouldn't be fun :P

[Brütehead]

1 minute ago, RonnieJamesDiner said:

 

What pwads/maps have you been playing?? Because I agree, that wouldn't be fun :P

Just the top of my head:

 

Plutonia map 3 :

Small room with no cover and a Baron of Hell and Chaingunner for good measure.

 

TNT Evolution map 18? :

(Can't look it up right now)

Traps you in a small locked room and teleports multipule Arch-Viles in on top of you. (Thankfully you have a BFG by then.)

 

Scythe map 21 : 

Early hell levels locks you in a circular room with a Archive and no cover.

[D. Whiskey]

People acting like keyboard-only Doom is the purest experience blazes my balls, because Doom had mouse support on day 1.  It's even recommended in the game's manual.  Of course very few people actually used one at the time, but Id was clearly ahead of the curve on that.  I even remember a Usenet post from 93-94 by some guy who deathmatched Romero, and was blown away by the guy's speed using a mouse.

[HAK3180]

20 minutes ago, RonnieJamesDiner said:

[something]

 

So did you pick up Aurora today then?

[Spectre01]

12 minutes ago, Scüm-head said:

Plutonia map 3 :

Small room with no cover and a Baron of Hell and Chaingunner for good measure.

Trigger the ambush and squeeze past the Vile back into the curving hallway.
 

Quote

TNT Evolution map 18? :

(Can't look it up right now)

Traps you in a small locked room and teleports multipule Arch-Viles in on top of you. (Thankfully you have a BFG by then.)

The BFG allows you to handle multiple Viles without cover and can often kill 2 in one shot if they're nearby.
 

Quote

 

Scythe map 21 : 

Early hell levels locks you in a circular room with a Archive and no cover.

 

That one isn't a lock-in. Grab the SSG and run out the nearest door.

 

I wouldn't say any of those examples qualify for "bad" Vile usage.

[FractalBeast]

55 minutes ago, Scüm-head said:

You got me all wrong. The Arch-Vile is a great monster and counterplaying his flame attack is essential. It's their placement and usage I hate.

75% of Arch-Vile encounters look like this. This isn't fun!

 

 

Just use the Ol' Archy differently. For example: 

The player walks into a sizable room full of cover, plenty of zombiemen, and a key at the end. Kill the zombiemen, pick up the key, and then BOOM! Two Arch-Viles teleport in start resurrecting zombies! Now you're dashing from cover to cover attacking the two Archviles, all while they are flanking you and resurrecting zombieman to act as meat shields and plink at your health. That's a proper Arch-Vile fight!

Here's a tip on how to have fun Arch-Vile encounters.

 

If the .wad says something like for_joel_vinesauce_super_fun_time.wad... DON'T PLAY IT! ARCH-VILE OVERDOSE!

[RonnieJamesDiner]

19 minutes ago, HAK3180 said:

 

So did you pick up Aurora today then?

 

Not yet, but I'm looking forward to it with great anticipation :D

[Brütehead]

6 minutes ago, Spectre01 said:

I wouldn't say any of those examples qualify for "bad" Vile usage.

They're not bad or impossible encounters. They're just relatively common and kinda boring to me. The Arch-vile can be used better in my opinion.

[Arbys550]

2 minutes ago, Scüm-head said:

They're not bad or impossible encounters. They're just relatively common and kinda boring to me. The Arch-vile can be used better in my opinion.

There are tons and tons of great archvile encounters. I almost never encunter a situation like youve described above. Play any well made slaughtermap and you'll see some great usage of the archvile.

[Szuran]

Another one for Doom 2016: the game has impressive graphics tech, but oftentimes is a non-functional visual mess.

 

When you turn off the compass and the big white indicator telling you where to go, you can see there is NO in-game indication as to where you should go, or even as to what's interactive.

 

The climbable ledges are green and that's fine, but, for example, when you pick up double jump boots, they're in front of you and I missed them anyway because there's no blinking light, no visual cue they're there. I had the same probem with Battlefield 2 - ZERO visual player direction, they rely only on these stupid indicators.

 

Also, in Doom 2016, enemies sometimes are hard to spot in the environments, which in such a fast game is a deadly sin. Small brown imp is invisible against a brown background. It doesn't have red glowing eyes or white spikes that make it stand out even from far away. I mean, its eyes do glow, but the environment is so cluttered with detail that anything can be anything at a distance.