Post Your Opinions About Doom (Whether Controversial or Not)

[seed]

1 hour ago, VGA said:

Unironically?

 

Ya really lol.

 

Habitat is rushed, unpolished, pathetic garbage with zero fun in its combat. Ugly, flat, boring, with dumb tunnel sections (also that yellow "door").

 

Abysmal map, this kind of garbage is only seen in ancient, beginner wads. Even Betray is more fun than this map.

 

Oh yea, here's a hot take from me: Betray is a fun map, even though it's objectively mediocre overall.

[Kristian Nebula]

3 hours ago, pcorf said:

 

How about Mount Pain?

 

"It was a pain in my assholes - Borat"

 

 

Also applies to the Cacodemon, with officially two assholes. The ones that @Romero can't talk about.

[Gez]

Sewers and Betray were sneaked in by developers and should be considered more like graffiti left by vandals to mark their presence than like official maps.

[Maes]

Betrayal by sewering thee wickedly.

[Boaby Kenobi]

Doom 3 > Doom 2016

[Dubbag]

The BFG is cheap. Especially in Doom 2016.

[High On Berserk]

Carmack leaving id for oculus was among best things that happened to Doom.

[VGA]

Carmack has been essential as an engine developer and for promoting open source. These stopped being a factor after Doom 3 from what I understand. There was no way Doom 2016 would be opensourced :D

[The Civ]

Carmack was good for open source but I think he became a bit of a bane for id Software in the later years, especially from Doom 3 onwards.

The development of megatexture tech dragged down the actual game development, for in my opinion, very diminishing returns. Rage would have been significantly better if it hadn't been so hard focused on megatextures and used that time more wisely in development.

The tech began to override the gameplay, something that imo already began happening with Doom 3 and Quake 4, which especially in hindsight feel like tech demos with the loose skin of the respective franchises on them.

If Carmack had stayed, I don't believe we would have gotten the version of Doom 2016 that we did get, and I feel the company would still be in a bizarre limbo state.

Edited January 31, 2020 by The Civ

[VGA]

A boon is a good thing, you didn't use the word correctly :D

[The Civ]

4 minutes ago, VGA said:

A boon is a good thing, you didn't use the word correctly :D

Ah, I'd meant to say bane, good catch, lol.

[DoOmEr4LiFe]

I've always felt Revenant missiles do way too much damage for their health and that the damage range is ridiculous.

 

 

[Bob9001]

19 hours ago, Andromeda said:

Another one:

 

Habitat is one of the best maps in TNT.

This is not a meme; Mount Pain and Habitat are the best maps in TNT and anyone who disagrees must shop at Walmart.

[Dubbag]

teeth.wad from "Master Levels" isn't THAT bad! In fact, I find it pretty creative.

[VGA]

2 hours ago, DoOmEr4LiFe said:

I've always felt Revenant missiles do way too much damage for their health and that the damage range is ridiculous.

 

 

That's what makes it exciting and challenging. Getting chased by a homing fireball gets the blood going!

[DOEL]

Another, Plutonia isn't hard. If you consider yourself a serious Doomer, you should be able to beat most, if not all, Alien Vendetta (and perhaps Hell Revealed 1 & 2, Scythe 1 & 2, and though it's a stretch Speed of Doom) maps on Ultra-Violence without using saves, though 1-3 saves is understandable. The true "Doomer" experience is vanilla mechanics with different PWADs

 

Watch demos of badass players like Ancalagon, j4rio, tatsurdcacocaco, 4shockblast, zeromaster, decino, and many more to see peak performance fundamental Doom skill. You'll see common tactics, you can 2-3 shot a single cyberdemon with a BFG no problem, you can dodge a mancubus at point black range, etc., etc.

 

Doom 1/2 is like chess. It understands its limits but utilizes them perfectly in a way that requires developing fundamental strategic and tactical skills. It becomes somewhat of an art.

[ReaperAA]

@DOEL Ok Boomer Doomer.

[seed]

3 hours ago, ReaperAA said:

@DOEL Ok Boomer Doomer.

 

Aight lad, you heard the man, it's time to retire, we're all just a bunch of poseurs masquerading as "Doomers".

[TheNoob_Gamer]

4 hours ago, DOEL said:

Alien Vendetta

Spoiler

Apart from the lighting stuff, MAP12 and MAP20, Alien Vendetta is mostly outdated in virtually everything, so no thanks :P

 

[Juza]

Many wads are only about 1/2 actual skill, with the rest being luck, because of Doom's 1d8 rolls and heavy emphasis on its RNG.

 

This relation between luck X skill heavily depends on the design of the level(s). 

[damerell]

On 1/29/2020 at 7:26 PM, GarrettChan said:

Time to make some maps that HNTR is actually harder than UV to fix those "hey, we're not playing on HNTR difficulty or cry baby difficulty". I think it's possible to flag more monsters on HNTR than UV?

Er... wouldn't the people who refuse to play on HNTR be completely oblivious to the fact you'd done that? Only the people who are happy to try and find the right difficulty would be affected.

[DOEL]

14 hours ago, TheNoob_Gamer said:

  Hide contents

Apart from the lighting stuff, MAP12 and MAP20, Alien Vendetta is mostly outdated in virtually everything, so no thanks :P

 

 

I mean, it's still easily one of the better wads out there from gameplay alone. There are maps I dislike in it for sure, like map 20 and some of the early ones honestly, but it also has some real bangers. Maps 13, 14, 18, 22, 25, 27, 29 come to mind.

[GarrettChan]

5 hours ago, damerell said:

Er... wouldn't the people who refuse to play on HNTR be completely oblivious to the fact you'd done that? Only the people who are happy to try and find the right difficulty would be affected.

Well, you can do it very obvious like only putting 1 zombieman in the UV version of the map :P  The original point is that people refuse to play on lower difficulty but only complain the WAD being too hard, so it seems this fixes the problem in a way lol

 

18 hours ago, rdwpa said:

Decino is the most overrated player in a while, as far as skill goes. He's not remotely in the league as most of the rest there.

Oh my, somebody finally said it. Anyway, I do agree that he's one of the best among the players who do live recording for sure.

[TheNoob_Gamer]

18 hours ago, rdwpa said:

Decino is the most overrated player in a while, as far as skill goes. He's not remotely in the league as most of the rest there.

You got to give him credit for partly resurrecting Doom though. But yeah, I like him as a let's player.

[Asking4Id]

Dead Simple should have been the last stage in Doom 2.

[TheNoob_Gamer]

53 minutes ago, Asking4Id said:

Dead Simple should have been the last stage in Doom 2.

Should have more clever linedefs and actor placements if that ever happens :)

[Nine Inch Heels]

On 1/31/2020 at 1:49 AM, DOEL said:

Watch demos of badass players like Ancalagon, j4rio, tatsurdcacocaco, 4shockblast, zeromaster, decino, and many more to see peak performance fundamental Doom skill. You'll see common tactics, you can 2-3 shot a single cyberdemon with a BFG no problem, you can dodge a mancubus at point black range, etc., etc

Hate to burst your bubble, but decino is nowhere near as good as any of the other runners you listed. And no, his "learning speed" isn't indicative of anything. And he also doesn't just pump through WADs.

 

I've been there when he tried to play untitled2 aka "Okuplok map" for the second time, and let me tell you: Not only was decino not able to discern what the intended strategies for many of the fights is, he was also 100% resistant to well-meaning advice. He never took his time to actually figure out how the fights were meant to be played, to the point where he could beat the tougher ones in a single attempt, he almost always dropped saves mid-fight and save-scummed his way through many of the fights by re-rolling the dice until he got a favourable outcome. Matter of fact, he even saved himself into a few corners without actually noticing he'd fucked up less than 30 second into the fight, and should have started the fight over from scratch. And don't get me started on fights he considered to be a matter of luck, because he couldn't find the solution...

 

As much as I like to see decino put out new content, especially when he does his homework, putting him in the same "sphere" of skill as Anc, 4shock, j4, et al is very far from the truth, and it's definitely justified to call this out as "fanboy-ism", rather than an informed opinion.

[tchkb]

11 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Hate to burst your bubble, but decino is nowhere near as good as any of the other runners you listed. And no, his "learning speed" isn't indicative of anything. And he also doesn't just pump through WADs.

 

I've been there when he tried to play untitled2 aka "Okuplok map" for the second time, and let me tell you: Not only was decino not able to discern what the intended strategies for many of the fights is, he was also 100% resistant to well-meaning advice. He never took his time to actually figure out how the fights were meant to be played, to the point where he could beat the tougher ones in a single attempt, he almost always dropped saves mid-fight and save-scummed his way through many of the fights by re-rolling the dice until he got a favourable outcome. Matter of fact, he even saved himself into a few corners without actually noticing he'd fucked up less than 30 second into the fight, and should have started the fight over from scratch. And don't get me started on fights he considered to be a matter of luck, because he couldn't find the solution...

 

As much as I like to see decino put out new content, especially when he does his homework, putting him in the same "sphere" of skill as Anc, 4shock, j4, et al is very far from the truth, and it's definitely justified to call this out as "fanboy-ism", rather than an informed opinion.

Since we are on this topic, I'll throw in a controversal (from challenge subcommunity's perspective) opinion on my own - I dislike the prevalence of puzzle gameplay where there is only one extremely specific viable approach to a fight and everything else results in 99.99% guaranteed death. I prefer the early/mid 00s school of slaughtermapping (HR2, Erik Alm, darkwave0000, etc) which may still get extremely hard on occasions, but leave the player with multiple viable options of dismantling fights. I can still enjoy a good puzzle on some occasions when the overall difficulty it manageable for my standards, but doing them all the time is tiresome and unfun to me. Most of the fun I get in Doom comes from doing everything a little bit differently every time and puzzle gameplay puts a hard stop to this.

 

I can't speak for decino himself as I've only watched a few of his videos (and he's probably still a better player than me despite making some obviously bad decisions from time to time), but for me, the big part of why high difficulty puzzle gameplay is inaccessible is that even if I randomly end up performing the correct sequence of actions, it still only increases my survivability from 0.01% to 1-10% because I'm not a good player, so I'm very likely to dismiss it, move on to other approaches and just never finish the fight, at least until seeing someone else execute the correct approach. Could be the same case with decino and other similar players.

[Gez]

8 hours ago, TheNoob_Gamer said:

You got to give him credit for partly resurrecting Doom though.

How? I never even heard of him until 2019.

[seed]

Me neither, how exactly did he "resurrect Doom" ?