Post Your Opinions About Doom (Whether Controversial or Not)

[Spectre01]

Gez said:

Keep in mind Doom II's subtitle is "Hell on Earth". The Hell you visit in Doom II is literally in the bowels of the Earth. The end text after you kill the Icon of Sin even has you walking back home! In Doom, after killing the spider mastermind, the text has you getting back home through a teleporter (and you get to find out the demons used it before you did, lol) but in Doom II, you leg it back up.

The text also mentions the Icon's thrashing limbs devastating miles of Hell's surface after being killed. I'm quite sure maps 21-30 are in Hell, just with some phoned-in art direction and lacking in atmosphere compared to Inferno.

[Kira]

id was quite adamant at showing Hell and "reality" merging since Doom 1. Nothing prevents The Chasm from being pulled from Earth while still being free of corruption.

Also, the bowels of Earth could be connected to Hell in one way or another. Think of Hyperion's shenanigans where you could have a house in say, Earth, while the balcony gives you a view on Mars.

[TheNerdTurtle2]

I loved how the color palette in Doom makes the red flesh walls fade to brown as you walk away from them

[TheNerdTurtle2]

fraggle said:

They should have kept on Tom Hall and never hired Sandy Petersen. E2M2 is proof of this.

What's wrong with E2M2 I like this level

[T-Rex]

TheNerdTurtle2 said:

What's wrong with E2M2 I like this level

Second that. Not to mention that E2M2 is technically a Tom Hall map.

[Kira]

To be honest the only way I can enjoy E2M2 is by playing it in tyson...

[scifista42]

TheNerdTurtle2 said:

What's wrong with E2M2 I like this level

T-Rex said:

Second that. Not to mention that E2M2 is technically a Tom Hall map.

I thought (?) that's actually what fraggle meant. "E2M2 is a good map by Tom Hall. Sandy Petersen's maps are inferior."

[T-Rex]

scifista42 said:

I thought (?) that's actually what fraggle meant. "E2M2 is a good map by Tom Hall. Sandy Petersen's maps are inferior."

Ah, so that's what fraggle meant. Yeah, that I can agree, since out of all of Sandy Petersen's entries in Doom and Doom 2, the ones that were originally by Tom Hall were playable compared to his actual maps, though there were a handful that are an exception. E2M5, E2M8, E3M4, Maps 01, 13, and 27 are in my opinion somewhat good, whlle the rest ranged from mediocre to shitty.

[ABRACADABRA]

Ports that has some vanilla limits disabled by default is retarded. 21 lost souls limit here is for a reason. Seeing barrels o fun filled with that shit is such a pleasure

[Crunchynut44]

I've never liked the weapon progression in Doom. Episode one it's possible to get all 5 available weapons by M3, and on UV you have absolutely no reason to use the pistol other than killing the first sergeant to obtain his shotgun. In my opinion the shotgun should have been introduced mid E2, chaingun secret mid E3, Chaingun introduction mid E4, RL secret mid E5 and finally the RL introduction E6 (and secret level).

Episode 2 is even worse, the PG literally in the first level in a pretty easy to find secret has always disappointed me. Obviously ID wanted to show off the new weaponry but this just breaks the game, as it's op during the early E2 levels. By M2 you can have every single weapon available, again I would spread it out so you don't receive the PG until M6 or the secret level.

E3 you get the BFG by M3, including again every other weapon in the game.

[Linguica]

ABRACADABRA said:

Ports that has some vanilla limits disabled by default is retarded.

Ssshhhhh Graf will hear you...

[Li'l devil]

Crunchynut44 said:

I've never liked the weapon progression in Doom. Episode one it's possible to get all 5 available weapons by M3, and on UV you have absolutely no reason to use the pistol other than killing the first sergeant to obtain his shotgun. In my opinion the shotgun should have been introduced mid E2, chaingun secret mid E3, Chaingun introduction mid E4, RL secret mid E5 and finally the RL introduction E6 (and secret level).

Well, non-secret chaingun is introduced in M4, and non-secret launcher in M7 - that's pretty spread out; and weapons in secrets are quite hard to find, imo - it tooks me quite a while to find a launcher on M3.

CrunchyNut44 said:

Episode 2 is even worse, the PG literally in the first level in a pretty easy to find secret has always disappointed me. Obviously ID wanted to show off the new weaponry but this just breaks the game, as it's op during the early E2 levels. By M2 you can have every single weapon available, again I would spread it out so you don't receive the PG until M6 or the secret level.

I should point out, that plasma gun is in most maps an exclusively secret weapon, so you have to look for secrets to find it; although i kinda agree that in E2M1 it's a bit easy to find.

[jazzmaster9]

ABRACADABRA said:

Ports that has some vanilla limits disabled by default is retarded. 21 lost souls limit here is for a reason. Seeing barrels o fun filled with that shit is such a pleasure

Well to be honest, the vanilla limits were a product of their time.
Though I will say, I don't like how ZDoom counts Lost souls in the monster count.

[nxGangrel]

Episode 4 is the superior map set compared to the other three episodes, as well as Doom 2's and Final Doom's levels.

[TheNerdTurtle2]

Also I don't know if anyone else feels this way buy E1 is my favorite set of maps, something about E2, 3 and 4 is off.. And the first 6 maps of Doom 2 are also amazing

[Nuxius]

TheNerdTurtle2 said:

Also I don't know if anyone else feels this way buy E1 is my favorite set of maps, something about E2, 3 and 4 is off..

That's actually a fairly common opinion, hence all of the "I <3 Sandy Petersen" posts in this thread.

[Doomkid]

ABRACADABRA said:

Ports that has some vanilla limits disabled by default is retarded. 21 lost souls limit here is for a reason. Seeing barrels o fun filled with that shit is such a pleasure

For us multiplayer fanatics, it gets even more ridiculous. You have to actively disable like 20 random-ass gameplay/compatibility options to get "actual doom deathmatch" rules, otherwise a bunch of crazy shit is enabled like respawn protection, no instant respawning, jumping, crouching, extremely ridiculous midair momentum, etc etc - All that crap changes the rules so much that it essentially becomes a different game, for PVP anyway. I'm glad all the options are there, but.. By default? Why? It's like if the single player mode just randomly turned on fast monsters and item respawn by default, and you had to go out of your way to turn them off just to get the experience that was intended - It simply makes no sense.

[Arctangent]

Is that how it's set up in Odamex? That'd surprise me. On the other hand, Zandronum's primarily focused around "newschool," and it wouldn't surprise me if the same goes for ZDaemon. Feels more like it's just you expecting the opposite of what the ports actually want to offer.

[Doomkid]

I play all 3 ports regularly, I think each one starts with at least a few non-vanilla things which is totally fine. Hell, even jumping by default at least makes some sense, but what's with not being able to respawn instantly? What's with the protection and all the other relatively random settings? As I said before, I think it's great these options are there, but turning some of them on by default just seems strange.

I think the comparison I made with randomly changing the rules for SP is rather apt - it changes rules in ways that are not necessary and greatly alter the intended gameplay experience. It just doesn't jive with the definition of the word "default". Most NS servers I see turn off many of the aforementioned settings as well, further proving that they don't actually have anything to do with NS or OS, they're just simply random. Shouldn't the default be set to what players usually want, and doubly so when that's how the game was intended to be played in the first place? Many newbies start up local/smallscale DM servers only to be unknowingly pelted with all this 'training wheels' stuff, they get used to that, then once they're ready to test their skills against others in public servers, the settings are entirely different and they essentially have to learn from scratch again. It just doesn't add up to me, it's just my opinion though!

[hex11]

Nuxius said:

That's actually a fairly common opinion, hence all of the "I <3 Sandy Petersen" posts in this thread.

I wonder how much of this is really cult of personality. Before I got on Internet, I never took note of who made the game, and I didn't prefer any particular episode over another (I still don't, except for E4, which doesn't quite "fit in" with the other 3). Also the names in credits didn't ring any bells for me, since Doom was one of my first PC games (had an Amiga and Sega Genesis before that). In a lot of ways it was better to not be infected by all this useless trivia and have my opinions or perceptions affected in any way, and simply experience the game & levels on its own merit without any other, irrelevant outside influence whatsoever.
I have noticed also people keep repeating the same things, like such-and-such is bad design, even if it's something I enjoyed to a great degree. Not just Doom, but games in general. For example, some people constantly talk a lot of shit about how Castlevania II for NES is a bad game, worst CV game, etc. But it just so happens it's my favorite in the series, in part due to there being false rumors in the game, and puzzles/riddles you have to figure out (just like typical tabletop D&D games I was involved in at the time CV2 came out). But then some famous youtube personality comes along and gives the game a bad review, and from that point on thousands of people instantly hate it. I wonder how many of them would have instead enjoyed it if they simply played it and formed their own opinions without outside influences.

[SharkLordSatan]

I know how some people said this already but I like Brutal Doom. I can see why people don't like it but frankly, I think it makes most levels a lot more fun.

Also I think the Icon of Sin is a good boss in terms of concept; it's a lot more fun fighting it as a gigantic sprite than some textures on a wall lol

[Quagsire]

SharkLordSatan said:

I know how some people said this already but I like Brutal Doom. I can see why people don't like it but frankly, I think it makes most levels a lot more fun.

Also I think the Icon of Sin is a good boss in terms of concept; it's a lot more fun fighting it as a gigantic sprite than some textures on a wall lol

I'd play it with Trailblazer

[Optimus]

hex11 said:

I have noticed also people keep repeating the same things, like such-and-such is bad design, even if it's something I enjoyed to a great degree. Not just Doom, but games in general. For example, some people constantly talk a lot of shit about how Castlevania II for NES is a bad game, worst CV game, etc. But it just so happens it's my favorite in the series, in part due to there being false rumors in the game, and puzzles/riddles you have to figure out (just like typical tabletop D&D games I was involved in at the time CV2 came out). But then some famous youtube personality comes along and gives the game a bad review, and from that point on thousands of people instantly hate it. I wonder how many of them would have instead enjoyed it if they simply played it and formed their own opinions without outside influences.

Yes, I see that, when some popular opinions are repeated because it feels to me like it's something someone says and everyone repeats like the sole truth. But maybe it's my feeling, I never know if it's their opinion or they are just repeating what's popular or avoiding opinions that feel very counter-intuitive unless someone trusted supports these. And maybe some of my own formed opinions feel the same to other people, like it's not mine. But I guess that's why we have the thread of controversial opinions :)

That's why sometimes I am thrilled listening to some contrarian ideas, what you would never expect. Then I know, the person who has this opinion it's his own or maybe he is just a hipster :)

[Fonze]

This may be controversial; I like 64-wide hallways. I find it to be just the right amount of claustrophobia while still being fair with dodging single, straight-fired projectiles, which makes many low-threat monsters suddenly more imposing.

[Wovenloaf]

With Doom II's added monsters and weapon, no Doom I stuff needs playing at this point, even if it's supposedly really good (and to be fair, I've played some good Doom I stuff before, like 2002: A Doom Odyssey).

Optimus said:

Yes, I see that, when some popular opinions are repeated because it feels to me like it's something someone says and everyone repeats like the sole truth. But maybe it's my feeling, I never know if it's their opinion or they are just repeating what's popular or avoiding opinions that feel very counter-intuitive unless someone trusted supports these. And maybe some of my own formed opinions feel the same to other people, like it's not mine. But I guess that's why we have the thread of controversial opinions :)

That's why sometimes I am thrilled listening to some contrarian ideas, what you would never expect. Then I know, the person who has this opinion it's his own or maybe he is just a hipster :)

Yep, that old conundrum: Is an opinion so controversial if a lot of people agree on it even in a space for controversial opinion, or does it only seem that way because it's expressed in response to a more popular, contrary opinion? I guess we'll just have to take a poll and see how many people think Sandy Petersen's maps were a turd on the sundae of Doom. Either way, I still like using him jokingly as a funny reference when talking about controversially-designed things or making fun of threads/users. :3

[Spectre01]

Alright, I absolutely hate secret areas which are invisible on the automap. If you find the computer map then you should be able to see the whole level and not miss out on stuff because you didn't hump a wall somewhere. Wall humping in general is a very lame way to make secret areas and one of the many things I don't miss about 90's map design. I much prefer cleverly hidden switches or jumps which reward exploration and experimenting with the map's geometry.

Speaking of geometry, you want to stick a (pointless) huge-ass pillar/pyramid/uberstructure in the middle of your lard-ass map that's visible from everywhere? Make sure it doesn't tank your map's performance first before you do so. And no, putting "run it in GhettoBoom+/320x240 resolution" in the text file doesn't cut it.

[jazzmaster9]

The Ultimate Icon of Sin did a better job of being a final boss than the Doom 2 IoS.

[Spectre01]

jazzmaster9 said:

The Ultimate Icon of Sin did a better job of being a final boss than the Doom 2 IoS.

To be fair, nearly any new boss with some effort behind it is better than the stock IoS elevator fight. Speaking of UIoS, I cheesed the fight by stunlocking it with the Black Hole Generator.

[damerell]

rileymartin said:

Alright, I absolutely hate secret areas which are invisible on the automap.

Doesn't everyone?

I've been documenting the secrets in Sunlust as I work through it (about half the levels have no wiki page) and I've hit a few of those... along with ones activated by some spooky action-at-a-distance with voodoo dolls in corridors, which makes for a lot of gratuitous editor pain when writing them up.

[TheNerdTurtle2]

damerell said:

Doesn't everyone?

I've been documenting the secrets in Sunlust as I work through it (about half the levels have no wiki page) and I've hit a few of those... along with ones activated by some spooky action-at-a-distance with voodoo dolls in corridors, which makes for a lot of gratuitous editor pain when writing them up.

Duuudeeee... Fucking sunlust, that WAD has the best looking mapset IMO