Post Your Opinions About Doom (Whether Controversial or Not)

[TheNoob_Gamer]

@seed @Gez

That's my personal bias and I am aware that I could be wrong. He partly resurrected the public interest of classic Doom by his analysis videos.

42 minutes ago, Gez said:

I never even heard of him until 2019.

You can thank the Youtube algorithm for that. decino himself said he got his sudden view boost on his analysis videos in late 2019 IIRC.

[seed]

I doubt it, most of these people are probably not really interested in playing classic Doom nowadays anymore.

 

You could say Civvie did the same with his PRO series, and I would still be in doubt.

[Gez]

I'd rather say The Algorithm gave him visibility because interest in classic Doom was resurrected, not the other way around.

[Boaby Kenobi]

10 hours ago, TheNoob_Gamer said:

You got to give him credit for partly resurrecting Doom though. But yeah, I like him as a let's player.

 

Doom does not and has never needed to be "resurrected". It's timeless. I guess you could say Doom is eternal?

 

I like Decino and his videos. Big Mac Davis too and a couple of others.

[CyberDreams]

1 hour ago, Boaby Kenobi said:

Doom does not and has never needed to be "resurrected". It's timeless. I guess you could say Doom is eternal?

You hit the nail right on the head. Doom is timeless indeed.

[TheNoob_Gamer]

2 hours ago, seed said:

I doubt it, most of these people are probably not really interested in playing classic Doom nowadays anymore.

 

You could say Civvie did the same with his PRO series, and I would still be in doubt.

Spoiler

Heh, that's why I said partly.

 

[Muscle Witch]

43 minutes ago, TheNoob_Gamer said:

  Hide contents

Heh, that's why I said partly.

 

Is Doom that much more popular this year than in 2018, though? I have doubts.

[666shooter]

On 1/26/2020 at 10:40 PM, Archanhell said:

9) This is not something from the present, but the fact that it was very common in the past to make every seventh map on a WAD some copy of Dead Simple is annoying and unoriginal at all.

 

 

 

 

I'll say it: I actually Like those levels, provided they are done well and not just a pain-in-the-ass arena fight. Then again, Dead Simple is probably my favorite Doom 2 map. I just love the symmetry and the brief but satisfying intensity.

To add a more controversial opinion to this- I didn't like Scythe's take on it. Too cramped for my tastes.

Edited February 1, 2020 by 666shooter : Fixing newly posted text to not overlap quote.

[DOEL]

7 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Hate to burst your bubble, but decino is nowhere near as good as any of the other runners you listed. And no, his "learning speed" isn't indicative of anything. And he also doesn't just pump through WADs.

 

I've been there when he tried to play untitled2 aka "Okuplok map" for the second time, and let me tell you: Not only was decino not able to discern what the intended strategies for many of the fights is, he was also 100% resistant to well-meaning advice. He never took his time to actually figure out how the fights were meant to be played, to the point where he could beat the tougher ones in a single attempt, he almost always dropped saves mid-fight and save-scummed his way through many of the fights by re-rolling the dice until he got a favourable outcome. Matter of fact, he even saved himself into a few corners without actually noticing he'd fucked up less than 30 second into the fight, and should have started the fight over from scratch. And don't get me started on fights he considered to be a matter of luck, because he couldn't find the solution...

 

As much as I like to see decino put out new content, especially when he does his homework, putting him in the same "sphere" of skill as Anc, 4shock, j4, et al is very far from the truth, and it's definitely justified to call this out as "fanboy-ism", rather than an informed opinion.

 

Yawn, "fanboyism". Sorry my list doesn't perfectly meet your elitist standards. And yea, a 10 hour stream is totally indicative of his playing overall.

 

He doesn't do optimization like the others I listed but you can see him do some fundamental skills that you'd have to learn to reach that kind of optimization. That's my point.

 

I never equated him with the others I listed, that was your dumb mistake.

Edited February 1, 2020 by DOEL

[Firedust]

Mappers who don't put a backpack in their maps but make the player fight hordes of high HP mons are annoying af. There's nothing wrong with restricting ammo - that's fine, that kind of limitation makes you work with what you've got. But if the player is forced to backtrack to pick up the stuff from before after every big encounter, that's just crappy map design.

Edited February 1, 2020 by Firedust

[VGA]

Dead Simple has a hardcoded behaviour regarding killing specific types of monsters. This kind of "scripting" is impossible in vanilla Doom so it's hard to pass on an opportunity like that! And the map has to be MAP07.

[Gez]

Yeah, but you can do more inventive stuff with it. Like for example Valiant and its Mancubian Candidate map.

[markanini]

On 1/31/2020 at 8:22 AM, rdwpa said:

 

Oh yeah that reminds me of a contribution to this thread: 

 

Decino is the most overrated player in a while, as far as skill goes. He's not remotely in the league as most of the rest there.

 

On a more positive note, I think he is the most entertaining Let's Player, and the best player among Let's Players. But the 'rigorous judge' in me wishes the 'Decino = Doomgod' comments of his fanbase would die down and instead focus on what he's actually very good at. 

That's being petty. Any of the players you mention are free to open a YT channel. So far only decino stepped up to the plate and that why he deserves all the attention he has got.

[Nine Inch Heels]

5 hours ago, DOEL said:

I never equated him with the others I listed, that was your dumb mistake.

If you say so...

On 1/31/2020 at 1:49 AM, DOEL said:

Watch demos of badass players like Ancalagon, j4rio, tatsurdcacocaco, 4shockblast, zeromaster, decino, and many more to see peak performance fundamental Doom skill.

 

3 hours ago, markanini said:

That's being petty. Any of the players you mention are free to open a YT channel. So far only decino stepped up to the plate and that why he deserves all the attention he has got.

Your point is moot. A YouTube channel is not indicative of somebody's skill, and nobody said decino doesn't deserve his success. In fact, I very much enjoy many of his videos, but that doesn't mean he's in the same league as for example ZM, which is the point that's being argued here. In fact, YouTubers like IcarusLives have been out there for years before decino even "stepped up to the plate", and IcarusLives is so bad at Doom he didn't even know how to SR40, as is evidenced in his video about Maskim Xul made by Obdsidian. Bottom line: Running a YouTube channel doesn't make you "gud at doom", and decino isn't the first to run a channel dedicated to classic Doom, so there's that too.

Edited February 1, 2020 by Nine Inch Heels

[VGA]

2 hours ago, Gez said:

Yeah, but you can do more inventive stuff with it. Like for example Valiant and its Mancubian Candidate map.

That was a mind-blowing map!

 

 

I liked the custom art in it, too, it had some signs warning against killing the Mancubus or something :D

[markanini]

2 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

If you say so...

 

Your point is moot. A YouTube channel is not indicative of somebody's skill, and nobody said decino doesn't deserve his success. In fact, I very enjoy many of his videos, but that doesn't mean he's in the same league as for example ZM, which is the point that's being argued here. In fact, YouTubers like IcarusLives have been out there for years before decino even "stepped up to the plate", and IcarusLives is so bad at Doom he didn't even know how to SR40, as is evidenced in his video about Maskim Xul made by Obdsidian. Bottom line: Running a YouTube channel doesn't make you "gud at doom", and decino isn't the first to run a channel dedicated to classic Doom, so there's that too.

Weird that you mention IcarusLives, his content is outside the scope of challenges, UVMAX runs etc. You might not like it but decino is so far the only youtuber that gained a larger audience for that type of content. If's and buts don't apply. Wanna sell the idea that more skilled players exist out there? Then you don't wanna start by looking like you have a chip on your shoulder, believe me.

[DOEL]

53 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

If you say so...

 

Your point is moot. A YouTube channel is not indicative of somebody's skill, and nobody said decino doesn't deserve his success. In fact, I very enjoy many of his videos, but that doesn't mean he's in the same league as for example ZM, which is the point that's being argued here. In fact, YouTubers like IcarusLives have been out there for years before decino even "stepped up to the plate", and IcarusLives is so bad at Doom he didn't even know how to SR40, as is evidenced in his video about Maskim Xul made by Obdsidian. Bottom line: Running a YouTube channel doesn't make you "gud at doom", and decino isn't the first to run a channel dedicated to classic Doom, so there's that too.

 

LOL that was never my point. Saying a group of people are "badass" isn't exactly a strict criteria, I used him as an example people would recognize.

[Nine Inch Heels]

39 minutes ago, markanini said:

Wanna sell the idea that more skilled players exist out there? Then you don't wanna start by looking like you have a chip on your shoulder, believe me

I don't need to sell the idea that there are more skilled players out there, everybody already knows that there are better players out there, many of which also stream on twitch, or go to events like AGDQ, where decino has yet to even make an appearance. Case closed, I'd say.

[Skullhacker]

I love Brutal Doom. It's not a bad mod.

There, I said it. I still like vanilla plenty tho.

[DOEL]

14 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

I don't need to sell the idea that there are more skilled players out there, everybody already knows that there are better players out there, many of which also stream on twitch, or go to events like AGDQ, where decino has yet to even make an appearance. Case closed, I'd say.

 

Ah yes, good job closing the case on a point derived from your disagreement about other's semantics.

[Ghouljokes]

I prefer the levels in Doom 2 to Doom 1, where a lot of the maps kind of just blend together for me. 

Even though I agree with the general consensus that the pistol is a junk weapon, I don't really see a need to "fix" it

Bullshit traps are alright if they're A: early in the level (or at the end of a short level) and B: clever in their execution

I never got the complaint that the ssg breaks the game, since it's slow and with big monsters you don't really get the shared damage that the rl has

I don't see why anyone would ever choose to play Doom with texture filtering on.

[markanini]

1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

I don't need to sell the idea that there are more skilled players out there, everybody already knows that there are better players out there, many of which also stream on twitch, or go to events like AGDQ, where decino has yet to even make an appearance. Case closed, I'd say.

I don't think so, you'd have to prove that AGDQ events have more views than decinos channel. BTW if I was decino I wouldn't go to an event where people are salty because of my youtube channel.

[Fonze]

I dont think anybody is salty over decino's youtube channel, even the person your arguing with said she likes to watch his content so ??? Classic strawmanning. Just as the comparison of views of decino's youtube channel vs agdq (hosted on twitch and later uploaded to youtube) is a bad, inaccurate comparison.

 

It was merely pointed out earlier that decino isn't on the same level of skill (note: skill, not popularity or anything else) as some other players another poster had grouped together, which was the response being replied to before you butted in. This is simply an analogy of a chess master (or more accurately just a solid chess player) appearing to be at the same skill level as a grandmaster when looked at by a novice. Nobody is taking anything away from decino's qualifications for making youtube videos, you can chill now.

[Nine Inch Heels]

22 minutes ago, markanini said:

I don't think so, you'd have to prove that AGDQ events have more views than decinos channel. BTW if I was decino I wouldn't go to an event where people are salty because of my youtube channel.

Nobody is salty because decino has a YouTube channel. Nice attempt at strawmanning, fanboy, try your luck with someone else next time, ideally with someone who didn't say previously that they enjoy decino's videos like I did. My point was that decino isn't bad at doom, but he is not as good as anca, looper, or ZM. My next point was that the ownership of a successful youtube channel doesn't equate skill. You have not managed to prove any one of the points I made as false, and since I'm actually knowledgable about hard maps in doom because I make some myself every so often, and I've also recorded several speedruns myself, I can make an argument from expertise when I evaluate how good at doom somebody actually is.

 

Also, since you're now at strawmanning levels of arguing, again, I didn't say decino is a bad player, but he is very far from the best and certainly not in the "badass" category, as it takes more than good fundamentals to be a "badass". Things like his second okuplok attempt (yes, his second one, not his first where he knew nothing about the map, but the second one where he already knew stuff) serves as evidence for my case quite alright.

Edited February 1, 2020 by Nine Inch Heels

[GarrettChan]

14 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

I've been there when he tried to play untitled2 aka "Okuplok map" for the second time (etc.)

Just add a little bit out here. Whenever you're streaming in front of a lot people (I assume since I don't have time to watch videos lately...), you may have a urge and pressure to make progress, so there's that. Of course, I wasn't saying that's the correct way to deal with this. I do record videos, and I do feel having like taking 30 minutes and not making any progress are bad to the audience.

 

Besides this, I do agree that watching somebody without enough skill to comment about things is just not interesting (like a particular channel you mentioned). Decino does cross this threshold and his informative videos are interesting to have a look. I stopped watching somebody's channel a while ago because I felt he fell into this problem and I didn't see him having any intention to improve (at least at the point I stopped, but I don't know about right now). Also, Mount Pain is not that hard... Oops, that shouldn't fit in this paragraph. I'm not saying I'm skillful or anything, but at least I do try to improve my skill even though I'm lazy recently and only ran some stupid Max/Reality runs :P

 

And last, it's that view/sub thing has been going on for way too long since making videos is a thing. It just prevents people from actually talking about objective facts since there'll be somebody saying that you don't have enough view/sub compared to somebody else, and somehow you are salty :P

[markanini]

6 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Nobody is salty because decino has a YouTube channel. Nice attempt at strawmanning, fanboy, try your luck with someone else next time, ideally with someone who didn't say previously that they enjoy decino's videos like I did. My point was that decino isn't bad at doom, but he is not as good as anca, looper, or ZM. My next point was that that ownership of a successful youtube channel doesn't equate skill. You have not managed to prove any one of the points I made as false, and since I'm actually knowledgable about hard maps in doom because I make some myself every so often, and I've also recorded several speedruns myself, I can make an argument from expertise when I evaluate how good at doom somebody actually is.

 

Also, since you're now at strawmanning levels of arguing, again, I didn't say decino is a bad player, but he is very far from the best and certainly not in the "badass" category, as it takes more than good fundamentals to be a "badass". Things like his second okuplok attempt (yes, his second one, not his first where he knew nothing about the map, but the second one where he already knew stuff) serves as evidence for my case quite alright.

Then you are strawmanning yourself, because you raise objections every time his name is mentioned. In effect you are giving away free publicity, on top of that assuming everyone that mentions his name is a fanboy. In that case you must also be a fanboy. I'm gonna leave it at that, I've have been sufficiently amused by this.

[VGA]

I am reading some controversial opinions in this thread!

[DOEL]

3 hours ago, Sharkbrain said:

I prefer the levels in Doom 2 to Doom 1, where a lot of the maps kind of just blend together for me. 

Even though I agree with the general consensus that the pistol is a junk weapon, I don't really see a need to "fix" it

Bullshit traps are alright if they're A: early in the level (or at the end of a short level) and B: clever in their execution

I never got the complaint that the ssg breaks the game, since it's slow and with big monsters you don't really get the shared damage that the rl has

I don't see why anyone would ever choose to play Doom with texture filtering on.

 

I agree with all of those.

 

I was messing around with graphics settings with PrBoom+ and I got everything to look like a damn pastel painting. Don't worry, I tried it just for fun, I like the spritey look of vanilla settings.

[DOEL]

2 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Nobody is salty because decino has a YouTube channel. Nice attempt at strawmanning, fanboy, try your luck with someone else next time, ideally with someone who didn't say previously that they enjoy decino's videos like I did. My point was that decino isn't bad at doom, but he is not as good as anca, looper, or ZM. My next point was that the ownership of a successful youtube channel doesn't equate skill. You have not managed to prove any one of the points I made as false, and since I'm actually knowledgable about hard maps in doom because I make some myself every so often, and I've also recorded several speedruns myself, I can make an argument from expertise when I evaluate how good at doom somebody actually is.

 

Also, since you're now at strawmanning levels of arguing, again, I didn't say decino is a bad player, but he is very far from the best and certainly not in the "badass" category, as it takes more than good fundamentals to be a "badass". Things like his second okuplok attempt (yes, his second one, not his first where he knew nothing about the map, but the second one where he already knew stuff) serves as evidence for my case quite alright.

 

I was saying, as a general example, perhaps to even newbies, some accessible (IE names easily found on Youtube) Doom runs to watch of people who know what they're doing ("badass"). I am truly sorry I dared speak of a simple "Doom Youtuber" in the same breath as some of the masters and that I didn't accurately adhere to your definition of "badass".

[Spectre01]

17 minutes ago, DOEL said:

I was messing around with graphics settings with PrBoom+ and I got everything to look like a damn pastel painting. Don't worry, I tried it just for fun, I like the spritey look of vanilla settings.

The controversial part there is not posting an example of said pastel painting look. :P