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mmnpsrsoskl

Slopes in ZDoom

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I know there was a thread about this a while ago...I got a PWAD from it showing off some fancy slopes in ZDoom, now I was wondering, can someone tell me how they work? I can't get them to work at all...:(

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Slopes in Hexen mode are made by assigning a line the special 181: Plane_Align. the first argument is how to slope the floor: 0 for no slope, 1 for sloping the sector facing the front of the line, 2 for sloping the sector facing the back of the line. Same goes for the ceiling. If you are creating a Boom mode ZDoom map, there are line specials for it too, but I don't know what they are

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mmnpsrsoskl: Perfectly true, but remember that a slope is 2 sectors next to each other, and that one sector must have the desired heights on it. It is this sector that acts as the slope when the Plane_Align special is put on the linedef linking the 2 sectors.

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From the ZDoom news page:

Made slopes and mirrors possible without using the Hexen map format:
Linetype 336 creates a mirror.
Linetype 340 slopes the floor in front of the line.
Linetype 341 slopes the ceiling in front of the line.
Linetype 342 slopes the floor and ceiling in front of the line.
Linetype 343 slopes the floor behind the line.
Linetype 344 slopes the ceiling behind the line.
Linetype 345 slopes the floor and ceiling behind the line.
Linetype 346 slopes the floor behind the line and the ceiling in front of the line.
Linetype 347 slopes the floor in front of the line and the ceiling behind the line.
Please note, these linetypes are only for use with the Doom map format. Maps created with the native ZDoom/Hexen map format still use the 181 and 182 specials.


Ultimate DooMer said:

mmnpsrsoskl: Perfectly true, but remember that a slope is 2 sectors next to each other, and that one sector must have the desired heights on it. It is this sector that acts as the slope when the Plane_Align special is put on the linedef linking the 2 sectors.


Well, you can also use hidden "control sectors" to make slopes wherever you want. Example wad.

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I was just about to make a topic asking about ZDoom slopes and all their retarded nonsense, but mmnrproski beat me to it.

So, I got that the first arguement is for the floor, the second is for the ceiling...so what's the third for?

Edit: Why the hell won't this work?

I've got two sectors, one is 0, 768, the other is -128, 768. I'm trying to get the -128 one to slope up to get to the 0 one. On the line between the two sectors, the front is facing the -128 one. So I gave it a Specal (Plane_Align) in WadAuthor, and filled in 1 under the first arguement and 0 for the second (since the ceilings are the same height). The slope still doesn't show up.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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[00:31] <GooberMan> what version of zdoom u running?
[00:33] <Archvile> 1.22?
[00:33] <Archvile> Yeah, 1.22
[00:33] <GooberMan> hehehe
[00:33] <GooberMan> 1.22
[00:33] <GooberMan> slopes only came in at v1.23b7
[00:33] <Archvile> oooooh
[00:34] <Archvile> OH
[00:34] <Archvile> Duh.
[00:34] <Lut> *OOPS*
[00:34] <Archvile> Doom2
[00:34] <DiluteCo_> *DUR*
[00:34] <Archvile> The ZDoom in the Doom2 directory has 1.23
[00:34] <Archvile> But The UDoom one doesn't.
[00:34] <Archvile> Hah.
[00:34] <GooberMan> heh
[00:34] <GooberMan> stick udoom and doom2 in the one folder
[00:35] <Archvile> okay

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Use the slope-prefab tool in DeePsea (v11.6 and higher) to get quickly build examples of how slopes work sbsoftware.com (NOT the version on DM). Should give you a good idea of how to do it manually.

Basically 2 types: Rising from the ground, like a pyramid, and tunnels you can walk through.

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Heh, slopes are fun and easy to do in ZDoom mode. HeXen slopes are a different matter altogether. Why can't they just be simple?

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Unfortunately, ZDoom makes everything else 4x as complicated. I miss the simple "SR: Lift(fast)" instead of this retarded arguement bullshit.

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Also, why can't scripting just be simpler? It's too much like programming and it's pretty complicated, so that only people with a lot of determination can learn how to do it. That fucking blows. Hard. I would love to learn how to script, but it's too damn complicated.

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Archvile64 said:

Unfortunately, ZDoom makes everything else 4x as complicated. I miss the simple "SR: Lift(fast)" instead of this retarded arguement bullshit.

Thise "bullshit" actually gives you flexibility. Not like this übersimple vanilla Doom or Boom bullshit ;)

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True, but like Archvile said, it's 4x as complicated.

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DooMBoy said:

True, but like Archvile said, it's 4x as complicated.


It's not that complicated, IMO. It just takes some time to get used to.

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DooMboy: Most of the linedef specials (eg. doors, lifts, floors, ceilings, even exits) can also be put into a script. There are only a few commands I know of that that can only be used in a script (eg. changing wall textures in-game, switching the impassable linedefs property on/off) so if you get used to the new setup, the only thing to worry about is the actual language (which isn't that bad. I can do it and I'm no programmer)

A good way of getting used to them is to examine your converted iwad to see what has replaced the original linedef types on the doors etc. we all know so well.

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Archvile64 said:

mmnrproski beat me to it.

YAY! I won!

I was editing it a while ago, had everything setup like Archie did, and made the same mistake...I kept using ZDoom v1.22...oops!

DiluteCo showed me this before anyone even replied here, thanks dude!

I think I might write this down for future reference...

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Ultimate DooMer said:

A good way of getting used to them is to examine your converted iwad to see what has replaced the original linedef types on the doors etc. we all know so well.

Heh, that's exactly what I've been doing. Fortunately I used ZWadconv.exe halfway through the current level, and there were already plenty of doors and switches I could get an example from.

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DooMBoy said:

Also, why can't scripting just be simpler?

If ACS was made to be simpler, it either wouldn't have the same amount of functionality, or you'd have to fuck around for quite some time to get the same degree of functionality (which in the long run would make it more complicated). Level designers the world over whinged when scripting became a major part of games, but if you just sit down and learn the basics to it you'll find out it's not that hard at all. You need to learn to walk before you can run - learn some basics before you try to do Super Duper Never Tried Before effect.

Archvile: anytime :P

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DAMMIT I WANT TO DO EVERYTHING BUT I AM NEW! WAAAAAAAAAAA

Yeah you just have to learn it, it is pretty simple after you master the basics...and read the ZDoom ACS guide a million times and you'll get it.

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thinking along the lines of map2wad conversion, so this means that zdoom slopes are defined from one sector to another? eww this conflicts with the duke3d definition (which is tangent of the angle of slopeage), which could cause conversion difficulty

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I recently became acquainted with the zdoom slope "things" which offer additional power. Below is a paste from the text file found with the slopes2.zip example on the zdoom web site. Get it at zdoom.notgod.com/ftp/examples.



This wad demonstrates the new slope things. They are:

Things 9500 and 9501: The first argument to these things is a line id.
For each matching line, the sector on the same side of the line
has its floor or ceiling sloped so that it passes through this thing.
The thing does not necessarily need to be in the sector(s) being
sloped. 9500 slopes the floor, and 9501 slopes the ceiling.
Things 9502 and 9503: Set the plane equation for the sector they are in
directly. The first argument determines how far it tilts from
horizontal and is measured in degrees. 90 degrees is perfectly
horizontal. Values close to 90 have less slope than values further
from 90. The thing's angle is used to determine what direction the
slope faces. The floor or ceiling will be adjusted so that it passes
through this thing. 9502 slopes the floor, and 9503 slopes the
ceiling.
Things 9510 and 9511: The first argument to these is a sector tag. The
plane equation from the first sector with a matching tag will be
copied to the sector that this thing is in. 9510 copies the floor
plane, and 9511 copies the ceiling plane.

Things 9500-9503 are processed after slopes created with linedef specials,
so they can be used to further adjust the resultant slope. Things 9510
and 9511 are processed after all other slopes are set up, so they override
any slopes that might have been created in their sectors already.

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Biffy said:

I recently became acquainted with the zdoom slope "things" which offer additional power. Below is a paste from the text file found with the slopes2.zip example on the zdoom web site. Get it at zdoom.notgod.com/ftp/examples.



This wad demonstrates the new slope things. They are:

Things 9500 and 9501: The first argument to these things is a line id.
For each matching line, the sector on the same side of the line
has its floor or ceiling sloped so that it passes through this thing.
The thing does not necessarily need to be in the sector(s) being
sloped. 9500 slopes the floor, and 9501 slopes the ceiling.
Things 9502 and 9503: Set the plane equation for the sector they are in
directly. The first argument determines how far it tilts from
horizontal and is measured in degrees. 90 degrees is perfectly
horizontal. Values close to 90 have less slope than values further
from 90. The thing's angle is used to determine what direction the
slope faces. The floor or ceiling will be adjusted so that it passes
through this thing. 9502 slopes the floor, and 9503 slopes the
ceiling.
Things 9510 and 9511: The first argument to these is a sector tag. The
plane equation from the first sector with a matching tag will be
copied to the sector that this thing is in. 9510 copies the floor
plane, and 9511 copies the ceiling plane.

Things 9500-9503 are processed after slopes created with linedef specials,
so they can be used to further adjust the resultant slope. Things 9510
and 9511 are processed after all other slopes are set up, so they override
any slopes that might have been created in their sectors already.


my brain hurts after reading that. it seems like Randy Heit has a passion for making every feature as complicated as possible to implement.

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Understood. The right way to check out these slope objects is to just get the slope example wad. Play it, see the slope effects, then open it with an editor and see how the things are used. 9500 and 9501 are very simple to use, once you take a look, quite powerful and convenient.

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For many programmers, it's actually a physical impossibility for them to describe technical features in a way that most non-programmers can understand. A lot of the time, they are incapable of even realising that non-programmers won't understand what the heck they're talking about.

For many interesting and rather extreme examples of this unfortunate phenomen, see any of John Carmack's .plans.

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NiGHTMARE said:

For many programmers, it's actually a physical impossibility for them to describe technical features in a way that most non-programmers can understand. A lot of the time, they are incapable of even realising that non-programmers won't understand what the heck they're talking about.

For many interesting and rather extreme examples of this unfortunate phenomen, see any of John Carmack's .plans.

Heh true.

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I hate explaning shit for that reason - I'm a programmer and that means I gotta make it understandable by everybody. Apparently I've done a halfway-decent job so far in things I've tried to explain, but they usually take me forever to write up...

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NiGHTMARE said:

For many programmers .. impossibility .. describe technical features ... most non-programmers can understand.

Sometimes. It depends on the audience. I bet John could do a pretty good job if he knew none of the audience understood the technical aspects.

The ZDOOM docs (any docs) have to assume the reader understands some basics at some level. One can't go back to step 1 in every single doc:)

I just had an interesting experience with a DOOM engine coder (brilliant coder). Turns out he's never done any level editing, so even the simplest things are hard and new to him, just like it is to any newbie. Took me by surprise - since I didn't want to insult him by explaining simple basics. Turns out I had to start from scratch. After about 2 months, he's finally catching on.

So although that may surprise you (as it did me), the guys that code the game, may have some difficulty making levels (if they never had in interest). In the end, a different world is a different world:)

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