[UPDATED] The DOOM System Upgrade Thread

[Plasma Gun]

ZeroTheEro said:

Processor: Intel i5-3570
Operating System Version: Windows 7 (64 bit)
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce GT 630
Memory: 8146 Mb
Motherboard: ASUS P8H61-M PLUS V3

I know that right now my specs are a little underpowered, but is there any Nvidia GTX900 and above cards that are mITX sized? It's a little cramped in my casing.

You're definitely going to want to upgrade for DOOM, that GT 630 is way underpowered :(

Stick this puppy into that system, though, and you will be golden: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125706&cm_re=mini_itx_gtx_970-_-14-125-706-_-Product

BTW, your CPU is still great, no need to touch that!

[Plasma Gun]

DoomUK said:

In you're sticking with Nvidia, there are plenty of 960s and 970s that are perfect for small form factor builds:-

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5252#ov
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5476#ov
https://www.asus.com/us/Graphics-Cards/GTX970DCMOC4GD5/
https://www.asus.com/us/Graphics-Cards/GTX960MOC2GD5/
http://www.inno3d.com/products_detail.php?refid=184
http://www.inno3d.com/products_detail.php?refid=175
https://www.zotac.com/us/product/graphics_card/gtx-970

That's not a comprehensive list, but you get the idea. There are options from AMD too, though I don't know a thing about AMD cards and I couldn't advise you on what to look for. As always, make sure your PSU is able to handle a GPU upgrade.

I tend to recommend NVIDIA cards, especially for id games, for a couple of reasons:

1. NVIDIA drivers in my experience have been much better. These guys put out "day 1" drivers for games while AMD users wind up having to wait a little bit before getting drivers that are fully optimized for their games. No fun.

2. id games have always tended to "just work" on NVIDIA cards, whereas I distinctly remember RAGE being problematic on my Radeon 7970 back in the day.

Not to say AMD cards aren't good overall, but from my experience, if you want hassle-free, go with NVIDIA.

[AirRaid]

Plasma Gun said:

Not to say AMD cards aren't good overall, but from my experience, if you want hassle-free, go with NVIDIA.

Gonna quote this, as it is exactly my opinion.

[ReFracture]

kelliegator said:

I'm a bit embarrassed to ask this but let's say money isn't a factor; how would one of these beasts do with Doom or other modern games?

http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/specs/

The reason I ask is because while I want to run Doom and other modern/current games, longevity is important since these Macs generally aren't upgradable (at least not as easily as PCs). So would this be worthwhile or would a standard PC built from scratch be better in terms of longevity and others factors, aside from price?

I'm thinking ahead so "overkill" isn't a factor unless the hardware is TOO advanced to run modern games, since one of you guys pointed out that some modern games can't run on over 4 cores.

Also worth noting, when you buy one of these things you can upgrade some things like hard drive space, RAM, and graphics cards but it costs extra of course.

My thoughts on this:
ECC memory has a performance penalty because of the overhead involved with ensuring things keep running in the case of errors.. it's intended for servers and high end content creation workstations. I don't know if the hit is negligible or not, but just know that gaming is not the intended use.

Those graphics cards are again, intended for content creation. I have no idea how well they will run games. I would assume they have enough grunt to run this.. but I don't know, and there is often little benchmark data for games on such GPUs.

On the note of having more than 4 cores, I believe the intention was to state that some games will fail to make meaningful use of the additional cores, not that they will not work.

In general it's only much older software that has problems with multiple core CPUs, and I think newer versions of Windows alleviate that by automatically setting older applications to run on a single core.

I personally wouldn't recommend a Mac to anybody wishing to do a lot of gaming unless they already know the game in question will run good.

Longevity wise I'd give it to PCs. I built my current PC in 2012 and have been able to easily upgrade the graphics card for example.

i7 3770k @ 4.1ghz
16gb DDR3
GeForce GTX 980Ti Classified 6gb (I put a GTX 670 4gb in it back in 2012)

This PC ran the alpha flawlessly, granted that GPU is very expensive and there is few on the market that are faster.

[ZeroTheEro]

DoomUK said:

In you're sticking with Nvidia, there are plenty of 960s and 970s that are perfect for small form factor builds:-

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5252#ov
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5476#ov
https://www.asus.com/us/Graphics-Cards/GTX970DCMOC4GD5/
https://www.asus.com/us/Graphics-Cards/GTX960MOC2GD5/
http://www.inno3d.com/products_detail.php?refid=184
http://www.inno3d.com/products_detail.php?refid=175
https://www.zotac.com/us/product/graphics_card/gtx-970

That's not a comprehensive list, but you get the idea. There are options from AMD too, though I don't know a thing about AMD cards and I couldn't advise you on what to look for. As always, make sure your PSU is able to handle a GPU upgrade.

Plasma Gun said:

You're definitely going to want to upgrade for DOOM, that GT 630 is way underpowered :(

Stick this puppy into that system, though, and you will be golden: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125706&cm_re=mini_itx_gtx_970-_-14-125-706-_-Product

BTW, your CPU is still great, no need to touch that!

Thanks for the suggestions! I'll see what I can manage on my next payday.

[HavoX]

Plasma Gun said:

1. NVIDIA drivers in my experience have been much better. These guys put out "day 1" drivers for games while AMD users wind up having to wait a little bit before getting drivers that are fully optimized for their games. No fun.

2. id games have always tended to "just work" on NVIDIA cards, whereas I distinctly remember RAGE being problematic on my Radeon 7970 back in the day.

3. NVIDIA cards have become a lot more energy efficient in recent years, especially in regards to the Kepler and Maxwell architectures. This is something AMD has yet to address with their cards.

[kelliegator]

ReFracture said:

My thoughts on this:
ECC memory has a performance penalty because of the overhead involved with ensuring things keep running in the case of errors.. it's intended for servers and high end content creation workstations. I don't know if the hit is negligible or not, but just know that gaming is not the intended use.

Those graphics cards are again, intended for content creation. I have no idea how well they will run games. I would assume they have enough grunt to run this.. but I don't know, and there is often little benchmark data for games on such GPUs.

On the note of having more than 4 cores, I believe the intention was to state that some games will fail to make meaningful use of the additional cores, not that they will not work.

In general it's only much older software that has problems with multiple core CPUs, and I think newer versions of Windows alleviate that by automatically setting older applications to run on a single core.

I personally wouldn't recommend a Mac to anybody wishing to do a lot of gaming unless they already know the game in question will run good.

Longevity wise I'd give it to PCs. I built my current PC in 2012 and have been able to easily upgrade the graphics card for example.

i7 3770k @ 4.1ghz
16gb DDR3
GeForce GTX 980Ti Classified 6gb (I put a GTX 670 4gb in it back in 2012)

This PC ran the alpha flawlessly, granted that GPU is very expensive and there is few on the market that are faster.

Hmm, sounds like Mac pro is out of the question.

How about a 27 inch iMac, if you upgrade the graphics card to AMD Radeon R9 M395X, processor to 4,0GHz quad-core Intel Core i7 and memory to 32GB?

http://www.apple.com/imac/specs/

Granted, I'll be stuck with a 60hz refresh rate on the monitor but I might be able to live with that. It's either that or building my own Linux/Windows 10 PC.

[ReFracture]

That iMac 27" has a mobile GPU in it with a resolution of 5120x2880. That's a tall task even for a high end desktop GPU.

I do not know how well Doom will run if you attempt playing it at native resolution on that GPU. I would heavily expect it to run just fine if you turn down the resolution (I've read people running 1080p for gaming in Windows doing a good job with Crysis 3, with only simpler games like Team Fortress 2 running well in native).

Also a note on i7 iMacs:
If you are going to do anything that will saturate the CPU be prepared for thermal throttling. Apple is hell bent on keeping the system as quiet as possible even if it means 90C+ temperatures. Games likely will not cause that though, more an issue if you are going to do any video rendering for example.

I gathered money isn't really a concern for you.. but you really won't get a great value for your money buying one of these.

I would go the Linux/Windows route. You might be surprised how many games you can play on Steam these days just in Linux. Sidenote: Go nvidia if you intend to use Linux on PC, AMD is lagging there still.

[Plasma Gun]

kelliegator said:

Hmm, sounds like Mac pro is out of the question.

How about a 27 inch iMac, if you upgrade the graphics card to AMD Radeon R9 M395X, processor to 4,0GHz quad-core Intel Core i7 and memory to 32GB?

http://www.apple.com/imac/specs/

Granted, I'll be stuck with a 60hz refresh rate on the monitor but I might be able to live with that. It's either that or building my own Linux/Windows 10 PC.

Here's what I'd build with a ~3k budget:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($399.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Intel BXTS15A CPU Cooler ($33.55 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus MAXIMUS VIII RANGER ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($199.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($74.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 1TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($298.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 980 Ti 6GB ACX 2.0+ Video Card ($656.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case ($65.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA P2 750W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($105.98 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($20.98 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM (64-bit) ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Monitor: Acer XB271HU bmiprz 165Hz 27.0" Monitor ($769.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $2727.41
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-02-12 11:35 EST-0500

For gaming this will blow the doors off of any Mac you could possibly buy.

[HavoX]

Plasma Gun said:

CPU Cooler: Intel BXTS15A CPU Cooler ($33.55 @ Newegg)

First of all, why this cooler? You can currently get a better one for less than that.

[Plasma Gun]

HavoX said:

First of all, why this cooler? You can currently get a better one for less than that.

Easy to install, no backplate or any other stuff to mess around with. I recommend it to less experienced builders. Honestly the 6700K is so fast out of the box I don't even recommend overclocking it, but if you want to that cooler will allow for headroom to 4.4-4.5GHz.

[ReFracture]

Nice picks, beast of a system.

I don't know about EVGA when it comes to power supplies and I'd personally get Windows 10 for more control over updates, but that's just my preferences.

Putting individual part selections aside, it's just hard to beat building a PC for the money and capability. Apple doesn't even make a computer this powerful for gaming.

[HavoX]

ReFracture said:

I don't know about EVGA when it comes to power supplies

EVGA makes great power supplies. If these JonnyGURU.com Recommended awards don't convince you, I don't know what will.

[Plasma Gun]

HavoX said:

EVGA makes great power supplies. If these JonnyGURU.com Recommended awards don't convince you, I don't know what will.

EVGA doesn't make anything :) They, like most of the well known brands, rebrand PSUs made by other companies.

That being said, I have an EVGA 1300W (Gold efficiency) in my system and it's been great.

[ReFracture]

That's precisely why I don't trust them just on brand name alone.

I have a fantastic Corsair AX850, but it was made by Seasonic. They have plenty of other models made by other companies of varying quality.

My rule:
Always research the specific power supply you are interested in. If you can't find an in depth review then look elsewhere. Logo on the box is meaningless.

[kelliegator]

Plasma Gun said:

Here's what I'd build with a ~3k budget:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($399.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Intel BXTS15A CPU Cooler ($33.55 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus MAXIMUS VIII RANGER ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($199.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($74.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 1TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($298.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 980 Ti 6GB ACX 2.0+ Video Card ($656.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case ($65.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA P2 750W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($105.98 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($20.98 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM (64-bit) ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Monitor: Acer XB271HU bmiprz 165Hz 27.0" Monitor ($769.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $2727.41
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-02-12 11:35 EST-0500

For gaming this will blow the doors off of any Mac you could possibly buy.

This does look pretty damn good and affordable to boot, so I'll consider this setup, thanks a lot.

Three more questions:

Water/liquid cooling, is that also recommended or not? Sounds like it might be better cooling but I'm a newb at computer hardware so I dunno.

And about memory: will 16GB suffice or is maybe 32 a better investment long term?

And finally, I technically have a bootable USB with Windows 10, would that work to install on this PC setup?

[magma86]

Plasma Gun said:

I tend to recommend NVIDIA cards, especially for id games, for a couple of reasons:

1. NVIDIA drivers in my experience have been much better. These guys put out "day 1" drivers for games while AMD users wind up having to wait a little bit before getting drivers that are fully optimized for their games. No fun.

2. id games have always tended to "just work" on NVIDIA cards, whereas I distinctly remember RAGE being problematic on my Radeon 7970 back in the day.

Not to say AMD cards aren't good overall, but from my experience, if you want hassle-free, go with NVIDIA.

Ive had no problems with amd cards and drivers since 98,99. I have been both a nvidia and amd owner since the 90s. I agree that nvidia card usually work better with id software games. If you look at WTNO: https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GTX_970_STRIX_OC/21.html
But i ran WTNO, rage and the evil within with a r9 290 since 2009 with no problems.
If id tech 6 could use vulkan i sure that will change optimization. I just hope doom wont be a amd or nvidia-title. Just, make it work on both brands.

[Plasma Gun]

ReFracture said:

That's precisely why I don't trust them just on brand name alone.

I have a fantastic Corsair AX850, but it was made by Seasonic. They have plenty of other models made by other companies of varying quality.

My rule:
Always research the specific power supply you are interested in. If you can't find an in depth review then look elsewhere. Logo on the box is meaningless.

I honestly just go by jonnyGURU, best place on the internet for PSU reviews.

[Plasma Gun]

kelliegator said:

Water/liquid cooling, is that also recommended or not? Sounds like it might be better cooling but I'm a newb at computer hardware so I dunno.

I wouldn't bother. That 6700K is a monster out of the box and an expensive watercooling setup will get you more MHz, but IMHO not enough to justify it. By the time the 6700K is not enough for your gaming needs, no amount of overclocking will save it.

And about memory: will 16GB suffice or is maybe 32 a better investment long term?

More is better if you've got the cash...in that case I'd recommend 2x16GB sticks so you can go to 64GB if needed.

And finally, I technically have a bootable USB with Windows 10, would that work to install on this PC setup?

I am not sure. Somebody else around here may be able to help though.

[ReFracture]

Plasma Gun said:

I honestly just go by jonnyGURU, best place on the internet for PSU reviews.

Cool, I'm a fan of [H]ardOCP myself.

@kelliegator
I concur with Plasma's statements on cooling and memory.

As for Windows 10 if you already have a license I recommend using the Media Creation Tool from here:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

It will walk you through creating a proper USB bootable flash drive to install Windows 10 with. Though I'm not sure you can run the tool on anything other than Windows operating systems.

magma86 said:

I just hope doom wont be a amd or nvidia-title. Just, make it work on both brands.

I strongly agree with this. I hate it when any title from the get go favors one GPU drastically because somebody threw money bags their way.

[DoomUK]

kelliegator said:

Water/liquid cooling, is that also recommended or not? Sounds like it might be better cooling but I'm a newb at computer hardware so I dunno.

Heavens no. I don't care what anyone says, water cooling is a stupid idea and an accident waiting to happen. Like Plasma Gun said, crazy overclocks aren't going to stop your CPU from getting old.

I technically have a bootable USB with Windows 10, would that work to install on this PC setup?

Not if you don't have a license key. You'd have to install an older version of Windows first, then go through the free upgrade process, which should activate Windows 10 on your machine*, and then finally install Windows 10 from scratch if you prefer a clean install.

*I've heard of some people having issues with this, so it's not guaranteed to work. All told it's probably easier to just buy a copy of Windows 10.

Plasma Gun said:

EVGA doesn't make anything :) They, like most of the well known brands, rebrand PSUs made by other companies.

This I didn't know, thanks for sharing.

Out of curiosity, how do I find out the actual manufacturer of my PSU? Corsair RM650 btw.

[snapshot]

ZeroTheEro said:

Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce GT 630

https://scontent-mrs1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtl1/v/t1.0-9/12744720_1143084332382497_8831941636399678435_n.jpg?oh=b261ef3bc6a48133461a1a013d359057&oe=5734987B

[Clonehunter]

Because I know nothing, here's my laptop

GPU: GeForce 940M
CPU: Intel Core i7-5500U CPU @ 2.40 ghz
Memory: 16.00 GB RAM
Dedicated video memory: 2048 MB DDR3



With that information, how fucked am I? I'm usually fucked in these situations. I don't know my Desktop specs.

[snapshot]

Yep, you're gonna need a better GPU, like GTX760 or ATI Radeon HD7850 or something like that .

[Deatheye]

2,4ghz is also too weak

[Plasma Gun]

Clonehunter said:

Because I know nothing, here's my laptop

GPU: GeForce 940M
CPU: Intel Core i7-5500U CPU @ 2.40 ghz
Memory: 16.00 GB RAM
Dedicated video memory: 2048 MB DDR3



With that information, how fucked am I? I'm usually fucked in these situations. I don't know my Desktop specs.

I am sorry to say that this machine is very below specification for DOOM. The CPU is a dual core and not a particularly fast one at that (since it is a low power part aimed at thin-and-light laptops). The 940M is also well below the minimum specification for DOOM, again because it's a low-power GPU that just doesn't pack a lot of grunt.

If you could provide your desktop specifications, that would be helpful. To determine those specifications download this utility known as HWInfo (64-bit version, please):

http://www.hwinfo.com/download.php

Then I want you to screen-shot the information that pops up and post it here; it'll tell me what CPU & GPU you have along with how much memory and what type of memory. It will also tell me what motherboard you have so I can look into potential upgrade paths for you if needed.

We'll get your desktop up and running for DOOM.

[Plasma Gun]

DoomUK said:

Out of curiosity, how do I find out the actual manufacturer of my PSU? Corsair RM650 btw.

Wish I had a more sophisticated answer to this, but I generally just read the jonnyGURU review if available.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=363

That unit is apparently made by Channel Well Technology.

[Clonehunter]

DMGUYDZ64 said:

Yep, you're gonna need a better GPU, like GTX760 or ATI Radeon HD7850 or something like that .

Deatheye said:

2,4ghz is also too weak

Plasma Gun said:

I am sorry to say that this machine is very below specification for DOOM. The CPU is a dual core and not a particularly fast one at that (since it is a low power part aimed at thin-and-light laptops). The 940M is also well below the minimum specification for DOOM, again because it's a low-power GPU that just doesn't pack a lot of grunt.

Haha yah, kiss my ass modern gaming.

[BluePineapple72]

Man to be honest, this is why I play console. All these numbers, jpgs, nvidians, and other PC stuff hurt my brain

[AirRaid]

That's the main draw of consoles. They are simple to use. Look at the cover of the game. Is it blue or green? If it's blue, it'll work on your thing!

And that's fine. If that's what you want from a gaming platform, go nuts. But if you're willing to put some effort in, you can get a lot more out of your games.