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Jaws In Space

Bloody Rust (Now on IDGames)

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Welcome to Bloody Rust! This project was started by FireFish with the intent to make a small set of limit removing maps using only stock Doom 2 textures that depicted an old rusted tech base environment. Due to FireFish getting banned I came forward to finish up the mapset for him and over the past few weeks I have organized the wad and have got it to a finished state.

Bloody Rust

Levels
Map1: Construction - FireFish
Map2: Outpost - nxGangrel
Map3: Smelting - Flesh420
Map4: Foundry - AD_79 & Jaws In Space
Map5: Oxidized - Du Mhan Yhu
Map6: Refinery - vectomon

I'll wait to the weekend before uploading this wad to the archive just in case someone finds a bug or two that I didn't notice. Enjoy!

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It's not finished till you put Joe's map back in. I actually enjoyed his entry and you had no right to butt him out of this.

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Impboy4 said:

It's not finished till you put Joe's map back in. I actually enjoyed his entry and you had no right to butt him out of this.

I'm sorry dude but you could'nt have been more wrong, Joe's map deserved to be kicked out for undermining the rest of the wad quality-wise, if you had a shelf of golden trophies, would you want to have a golden poo that still stinks as one of them, no? Then deal with it.

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alterworldruler said:

I'm sorry dude but you could'nt have been more wrong, Joe's map deserved to be kicked out for undermining the rest of the wad quality-wise, if you had a shelf of golden trophies, would you want to have a golden poo that still stinks as one of them, no? Then deal with it.


Joe's poo at least doesn't stinks. It is not a terry WAD, it is beatable, playable, even enjoyable!

Joe's maps can be bad, but I know someone who makes worse maps......

Spoiler

Me :(

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alterworldruler said:

I'm sorry dude but you could'nt have been more wrong, Joe's map deserved to be kicked out for undermining the rest of the wad quality-wise, if you had a shelf of golden trophies, would you want to have a golden poo that still stinks as one of them, no? Then deal with it.

What the hell do you mean "undermining the rest of the wad quality-wise"? FireFish's map had many problems with it, and had bad looking areas around the entire level. AD_79 & Jaws In Space's map had a frustrating difficulty. And even my map looked out of place compared to the others that were made. Joe's entry was a playable and stable level.

It sounds like you, and Jaws In Space are picking on Joe just because it's Joe. Had the exact same map been created by any one else, I doubt ya'll would have given a shit. And his entry here isn't nearly as bad as many of the monstrosities he's created in the past. And even though his map may not be as good as all the others, this not how you have a mapper improve their levels, or at least let them make decent ones if they never improve. If there's a level that must be removed, at least give multiple and legitimate reasons. This is really unfair and cuntish behavior.

Jaw's, I'd like to request that you switch Map 02's and Map 03's places due to the length and difficulty. Map 02 is much longer and more difficult.

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Hi, im playing this now and I will continue to update this comment as I finish each level. (Also, im convinced I have seen these levels before, and I mean years ago, am I going crazy)?

Map01:
Map 01 is nice, I wouldn't call it extraordinary but it does the job. Decent aesthetics and detail, gameplay was relatively easy despite there being a few mid-tier enemies. There is however an abundance of ammo which took away from some tactical gameplay decisions. Overall a fun map and a decent opener.

Also, I found this slime trail (im playing with Zandronum):

Spoiler

Map02:
Map 02 was nicely done, the detail and architecture was especially good. The difficulty was again trivial, and there was so much health and ammo that I didn't know what to do with it all. Neat level, I look forward to map 03.

Map03:
Well map 03 was a bit disappointing, especially after the detailed affair that was 02. The map itself was unimpressive, and im not really big on large teleport heavy optional areas that ended with soulspheres only. I found the progression very odd, like a failed attempt at non-linearity. however I did enjoy the gameplay as I was put in the deep-end many times with those revenents, though I still found it relatively easy due to all the room I had for maneuvering. Again, ammo and health were littered everywhere, which I generally don't like.

Map04:
This one was exciting, the start was chaotic but completely fair and I managed it well enough to keep most of my health and armour intact. I made the mistake of using the radsuit before I got the BK, however there were copious amounts of health so this turned out to not be much of a problem. The only place I really took damage was when I took that lift that puts you in front of that damn mancubus, who nearly killed me there and then. Architecturally this level was very eye pleasing and it had a great sense of progression. My favourite map so far.

Map05:
Probably my least favourite of the set, not to discredit the author as this is the biggest and deadliest of the lot thus far, but it's more my personal taste that provokes such a dislike. I really didn't enjoy the fights as they were either door to door cover, downright unfair traps or a random mess of enemies teleporting everywhere. I also found that the rooms were massive and simply are a cesspool of random detailing, such as the weird diamond shaped steps in the starting area or holes in walls that lead to nowhere. Take all this away and you basically had large square shaped rooms that had very little height variation and poor door based progression.

Map06:
Pretty decent map, very linear progression that required a lot of back tracking but this wasn't to bad due to the map being somewhat short. Overall I found it pretty easy, the traps were good but I always seem to manage them quite well, and health was always near by in case. Decent visuals, nothing outstanding however but they fit the level nicely.


Overall this is an average set of levels, I would recommend it however there is no replayability in the maps. The overall difficulty and map length progression is odd (why was 05 not the last map?) and visually the maps range from mediocre to great. The maps that stood out to me were 02 and 04, I did really enjoy these ones and are what made this WAD somewhat enjoyable to me. Good job guys!

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Just a headsup, if this gets released in its current state somebody's gonna smack you with a big fat "does not work in intended sourceport" before you can say "not another Greenday midi!". The textfile touts the project as "Limit-Removing", but also states it was tested only with GZDoom, which is without fail a recipe for broken hearts, broken dreams, and worst of all, broken maps. Lo and behold, there are a lot of errors and ZDoomisms in the current version. Some are merely cosmetic (HOMs on natural terrain, stuck/siamese monsters, and the like), some are really nasty but not fatal (insta-raise monster pits consistently malfunction across the set), and some are simply fatal--neither map 05 or map 06 is finishable outside of a ZDoom environment (if they are finishable at all), due to a broken red door in map 06's case, and a broken, well.....pretty much everything in map 05's case. I slammed these down all in a row and so can't recall every error I saw, but here's some documentation of sorts:

Skill 4 / PrB+ -cl 2 FDA pack, maps 01-06. Maps 05 and 06 are of course both DNFs due to map breakage. For loose reference, if I recall correctly map 04 was the only entirely error-free entry I saw, though the errors in 02 and 03 are minor (just a HOM in the former, and some inconsistently-tagged damage floor in a couple of sector-rich spots in the latter, etc.).

Apart from technical issues, my overriding impression is that the mapset's quite palatable, but some of the thing placement doesn't make a whole lot of sense, with things like weapons and armor showing up at bizarrely late junctures in maps, such that you spend most playtime without them and then hardly get the chance to use them before moving on to the next map (particularly pronounced in map 02). It was almost as if the set was intended mainly for continuous play, which is not a design decision I'd consider invalid if it was actually the case, but here it did not strike me as quite intentional. In terms of overall presentation quality, I reckon map 03 is the odd one out (perhaps I might've felt the same of 05 if I had seen more of it), but I sort of appreciated it for its somewhat unexpected level of toothiness, what with all of the mischievous skellingtons rattling about and all.

Edit: Oh yeah, another general issue I forgot to mention that appears in more than one of the maps is infinitely-tall blocking bodies hanging in the rafters--definitely an issue in maps 01 and 02, likely others as well.

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Taking a quick playthrough (in ZDoom, so won't notice most of the issues mentioned)

MAP01:
- The spectres in the blue armor/RL area can't actually climb up the stairs to the player, which makes them rather pointless
- Not all the sectors in the blue armor/RL slime pit are damaging

MAP02:
- Dear god that sky is ugly (not a bug but so egregious I felt compelled to mention it)
- HOM/missing texture here
- Misaligned texture here

MAP03:
- Different areas of blood hurt for different amounts, not really a bug but I found it sorta annoying

MAP04:
- No secrets, c'mon :(

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nxGangrel said:

It sounds like you, and Jaws In Space are picking on Joe just because it's Joe. Had the exact same map been created by any one else, I doubt ya'll would have given a shit. And his entry here isn't nearly as bad as many of the monstrosities he's created in the past. And even though his map may not be as good as all the others, this not how you have a mapper improve their levels, or at least let them make decent ones if they never improve. If there's a level that must be removed, at least give multiple and legitimate reasons. This is really unfair and cuntish behavior.

I agree, particularly when looking back at the way how removing joe-ilya's map from its rightful slot was discussed and justified, this feels like the real reason behind removing joe-ilya's map is joe-ilya's own unlikability much more so than unlikability of the map, which I consider really unfair.

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I thought Joe's map was going to be included, atleast from what I remember in the old thread. I may be wrong I have not looked at the other thread in a while..

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Magnusblitz said:

Taking a quick playthrough (in ZDoom, so won't notice most of the issues mentioned)

MAP01:
- The spectres in the blue armor/RL area can't actually climb up the stairs to the player, which makes them rather pointless
- Not all the sectors in the blue armor/RL slime pit are damaging

MAP02:
- Dear god that sky is ugly (not a bug but so egregious I felt compelled to mention it)
- HOM/missing texture here
- Misaligned texture here

MAP03:
- Different areas of blood hurt for different amounts, not really a bug but I found it sorta annoying

MAP04:
- No secrets, c'mon :(



Fixed. And for some reason my map's not the latest in the wad: http://www.filedropper.com/map2_4

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nxGangrel said:

this not how you have a mapper improve their levels, or at least let them make decent ones if they never improve.


Its not up to us to help a mapper improve. In cases of community projects its upto the lead to make a decision that is best for the map pack, not for individuals within the community. Plus I don't see why it has to be this project.

Look at this another way, when someone criticizes someones product, is it that persons obligation to teach the creator/developer how to improve their product? No. The first priority is towards warning consumers about what they are getting into. That's the only criteria necessary to be a review.

Sure you can make a case that the product isn't as bad as people say it is so a case of hyperbole, or that you where one sided and didn't cover the positive aspects in a case of bias. But in this case what is done is done.

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Can't imagine how Joe-Ilya's map could be worse than the original version of map01. Seems like that one has been improved, however, which is good.

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If the new boss is thinking my map stinks, how can I improve it?
Put more bloody rust, more detail, and more ammo?

This level's old and I can make it play and look more interesting.

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joe-ilya said:

If the new boss is thinking my map stinks, how can I improve it?
Put more bloody rust, more detail, and more ammo?

This level's old and I can make it play and look more interesting.


No joe, your map doesn't stinks. The only problem is what your boss thinks about it. Don't worry, I won't reject you if I make any community projects later.

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TheUnbeholden said:

Its not up to us to help a mapper improve. In cases of community projects its upto the lead to make a decision that is best for the map pack, not for individuals within the community. Plus I don't see why it has to be this project.

Look at this another way, when someone criticizes someones product, is it that persons obligation to teach the creator/developer how to improve their product? No. The first priority is towards warning consumers about what they are getting into. That's the only criteria necessary to be a review.

Sure you can make a case that the product isn't as bad as people say it is so a case of hyperbole, or that you where one sided and didn't cover the positive aspects in a case of bias. But in this case what is done is done.

No, it isn't up to us to help a mapper improve. But when you criticize someone's map more often than not you expect some change and better results in a following update. When you dislike or criticize a map and you're the leader of the project, you shouldn't just discard it immediately. That's rude and unprofessional behavior and reasoning. Yes, it is up to the leader of a community project to make the decisions for the project and/or "map packs", but that shouldn't disregard the community entirely, and the leader should take into account the opinions of the people who are willing to be in and contribute to the project. And while you said you "don't see why it has to be in the project" I argue I don't see why it can't be in the project either.

You're right, when someone criticizes another person's product it isn't their obligation to make the creator or developer how to improve their product. But that doesn't mean improvement can't be made. I agree, "the first priority is towards warning consumers about what they are getting into", but that's where the creator can learn and improve from. If someone criticizes my map, or product, I can take that criticism into account to how I can make my map or product better.

Jaws just came in as the self proclaimed new leader of the project and decided to drop Joe's map without any facts or reason to back up his decision beyond he doesn't like Joe or his content, without even reviewing Joe's entry for the project, which is my problem.

While "what's done is done" is probably the case here, that doesn't excuse this behavior and reasoning. Again it's rude and unprofessional (I'm very aware that this is the internet and a forum, but that shouldn't mean people deserve to act in whatever way they feel or want, especially when you are the leader of a project).

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LEAVE THE POOR BOY ALONE, FOR FUCK'S SAKE

Boo fucking hoo, he dropped one of Joe's maps that he craps out for every single project, so what? If it weren't for Jaws this project would be festering at the bottom of Wads and Mods. I agree that things could have been handled better on both sides, but harassing Jaws to this extent is really unnecessary and doesn't help anyone's case in the slightest.

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nxGangrel said:

Jaws just came in as the self proclaimed new leader of the project and decided to drop Joe's map without any facts or reason to back up his decision beyond he doesn't like Joe or his content, without even reviewing Joe's entry for the project, which is my problem.

rdwpa said:

I played map01 a couple days ago. It needs a complete overhaul. This project will not be received well at all if that's the foot it starts out on.

1) Pistoling chaingunners at the start, bleh.

2) Secret that contains a RL and blue armor is warped to by the 64-by-64 square holding a radsuit. The logical course of action is to save the radsuit for when it seems useful, which in my case turned out to be when all of the monsters were dead. The RL and blue armor left behind until then turn out not to be very useful when all of the monsters are dead.

3) That last fight is completely dire. Five pinkies in a giant room? Give me a vile behind the pillar, at the very least. Still would be very easy, but at least it might be exciting.

This is what I remember.

Quality control exists for a reason.

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Obsidian said:

I agree that things could have been handled better on both sides, but harassing Jaws to this extent is really unnecessary and doesn't help anyone's case in the slightest.


I wouldn't get such support if Jaws wouldn't say this ugly reply in the other thread that sliped a page:

Jaws In Space said:

Because your maps are crap & I'm tired of people just letting you get away with shitting out bad maps for every single community project.

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Loving the first map so far. Really confused as to how it is considered bad. Also could Joe release his map or is there a link for it, so I can try it out after I finish this. I really would like to just play maps and not see bickering. If a map sucks, take it out. Makes sense to me. I had not been following this was in the least bit till today, would love to see what did not make the cut. What was the orig thread btw, I wanted to know the overall theme of the maps. If some one could link that please.

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Obsidian said:

but harassing Jaws

My previous comment was a reply to TheUnbeholden. My comment before that was a reply to alterworldruler. Not ONCE did I reply to Jaws or tell him directly to put the level in, or that I didn't like his decision. The only time I direct a comment toward him about the map was a last minute edit saying not all of Joe's maps were horrible garbage, and I only mentioned him in my previous two replies.

Every time I commented about the subject were replies to someone else. I haven't spammed both threads or PM'd him or emailed him to ask Jaws to put the level back in, or there's something wrong with him or whatever. All I've done was state my opinion.

If an opinion is your idea of "harassment" there's something wrong with you. But if it makes you feel better, I won't bring this shit up again unless someone replied to me about it, which I originally was going to do.

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johnnyledger1 said:

Loving the first map so far. Really confused as to how it is considered bad. Also could Joe release his map or is there a link for it, so I can try it out after I finish this. I really would like to just play maps and not see bickering. If a map sucks, take it out. Makes sense to me. I had not been following this was in the least bit till today, would love to see what did not make the cut. What was the orig thread btw, I wanted to know the overall theme of the maps. If some one could link that please.

Original thread (posted my map there, just look through the 6 pages) : https://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/72276-waiting-bloody-rust/

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Okay I'm almost done with the fixes that were needed & I'll be posting the latest version later today.

nxGangrel, do you mind if all the pain sectors in you map at the same damage level? It seems to be the only unpopular thing about your map, but I'll let you decide.

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Okay guys I think I got all of the bugs & issues that were brought up.

Bloody Rust

Map01: Spectres in RL room can now get up stairs & there's a revenant to get the player moving as well, all the damaging sectors in the RL secret are now damaging, fixed the slime trail, & replaced the blocking decorations with non blocking decorations.
Map02: Swapped with map 03, replaced with nxGangrels edit
Map03: Swapped with map 02, relpaced a blocking decoration near the blue key door with a non blocking decoration
Map05: Swapped with map 06, fixed suck enemys near the start, fixed broken red door, fixed monsters that were stuck in the floor
Map06: Swapped with Map 05, Okay so this map wasn't even close to being limit removing compatible, I made many changes to the map while keeping the map as close to the original as I possibly could. *Note to self don't test limit removing maps with GZDoom :P

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Don't give a fuck about the Joe shit, but here's my two cents for this project...


Wouldn't "Bloodrust" be a slightly cleverer name? :V

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