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joe-ilya

Most inspirational pwads?

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Here's some I know of:

-Scythe/2 (small harsh maps and/or have 6 episodes in a full megawad. Valliant comes in mind and going down)
-Speed of doom (High detail, high difficulty; sunlust and hellbound)
-1994 tune-up (joe tune-up project)
-1024 claustrophobic (Mayhem 2048, Pcorf's 2nd CP)
-Hell revealed 1 (the slaughterfest genre)
-ORIGWAD (making Pwads)
-Momento mori 1 (community projects)

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Scythe1, Episode 2, TNT and Doom2 are definitely my main mapping inspiration. I can play those 4 map sets almost endlessly..

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do you mean personally inspirational (like this thread), or influential for doom mapping trends on the whole?

joe-ilya said:

-Speed of doom (High detail, high difficulty; sunlust and hellbound)


I think (mostly darkwave maps) in SoD actually have notably sparse detailing, many large areas with reserved sector-detailing or texture variety. Can't argue with it being influential wrt high-difficulty mapping though, definitely a personal favorite :)

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Obsidian said:

MAYhem is TheMionicDonut's thing, not Pcorf's.

I think he meant that PCorf's second CP was inspired by Mayhem 2048.

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I assume that this thread, as opposed to the "What wads influenced YOU the most?" one, is about wads that proven to be inspirational for a large part of the community rather than subjectively for particular people.

I agree with Memento Mori 1/2, Hell Revealed 1/2, Scythe 1/2 and Speed of Doom from joe-ilya's list, and I think that other notably influential wads include Alien Vendetta, Congestion 1024, Suspended in Dusk, Sunder, and Stardate20X6. Many others are probably worthy to be mentioned too, these were just off the top of my head.

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scifista42 said:

Even when the question is about PWADs and Plutonia being an IWAD?


I guess I could always argue that plutonia is just a pwad that was sold commercially :P

I actually didn't realize joe specified pwads rather than wads in general.

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I keep thinking it would be cool to make a "family tree" of Doom mapping styles going all the way from the original iwads to the present. I've played around with it a little and gotten a few branches on paper (for instance, BPRD => Death Destiny => Insane_gazebo => Ribbiks and Danne; Kama Sutra combines the mapping aesthetics used in TVR! and Alien Vendetta; Skillsaw is clearly inspired by Erik Alm; etc.), but after a certain point it's impossible to continue without doing a really deep analysis and interviewing a lot of people, many of whom are no longer active in the community.

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Not Jabba said:

I keep thinking it would be cool to make a "family tree" of Doom mapping styles going all the way from the original iwads to the present. I've played around with it a little and gotten a few branches on paper (for instance, BPRD => Death Destiny => Insane_gazebo => Ribbiks and Danne; Kama Sutra combines the mapping aesthetics used in TVR! and Alien Vendetta; Skillsaw is clearly inspired by Erik Alm; etc.), but after a certain point it's impossible to continue without doing a really deep analysis and interviewing a lot of people, many of whom are no longer active in the community.

I did something in this vein a few years ago...

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I think Plutonia Experiment and Alien Vendetta inspired SODFinal.

and Congestion 1024 was the predecessor to Claustrophobia 1024, but im pretty sure there were 1024 maps before that.

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40oz said:

and Congestion 1024 was the predecessor to Claustrophobia 1024, but im pretty sure there were 1024 maps before that.


If memory serves, the Congestion 1024 project created the idea, but lots of individual 1024 maps or small episodes were released during or shortly after its development. Could be wrong.

It seems a little silly to say that anything was "inspired" by origwad. That's like saying that all forum posts in a thread were inspired by the guy who rushed in to post "fp."

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joe-ilya said:

Here's the complete inspiration tree:


Love how you state that as fact since the thing has more holes than a Swiss cheese after it has been shot with the SSG. :) Plutonia had a huge influence on several of these, among other stuff. Hell Revealed pretty much inspired every slaughter map that came after it, certainly AV too. One can't really separate like this imo, Scythe had direct influences from several megawads that came before it too...

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joe-ilya said:

Here's the complete inspiration tree:
http://i.imgur.com/ICHrG16.png

This is amazing, so many good projects... Did you take any of these as inspiration? Because based on your maps I would have NEVER guessed the influences.

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I came seeing this MSPaint masterpiece of wad genealogy, good job Joe-ilya, may the pony semen ride you down the Spawning Vats, right into Dis.

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So you say that ORIGWAD didn't invent the concept of making Pwads and isn't the first Pwad ever made? What's the first Pwad then?

I'm not trying to impress anyone.

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I get what you're trying to do here Joe, but we'd really have to ask the author(s) personally what inspired their works rather than assuming based on perceived similarity.

Such a chart made from the actual opinions of the mappers who brought us these fine works would actually be pretty damn interesting! Maybe each mapper picks a "3 main inspiration WADs" and the chart could be built from there.

Half (or more) the mappers responsible for some of these awesome works haven't been around for years, meaning doing this the proper way is pretty much impossible, but it's still an interesting concept.

I'd like to see a poll that has the 30ish most frequently played Co-op/SP WADs and see which one people pick as the most inspirational. Assuming people gave genuine answers it could be pretty damn insightful into what mappers tend to 'latch on to' so to speak.

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joe-ilya said:

So you say that ORIGWAD didn't invent the concept of making Pwads and isn't the first Pwad ever made?


It sounds really far-fetched to me.

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I feel that even if we're just focusing on the PWADs, they would have come from IWADs. Like, take Hell Revealed for example, while it was influenced by Plutonia in terms of difficult gameplay, it had a couple of separate branches of different aspects.

Branch #1: Alien Vendetta - Speed of Doom, Hellbound, and Sunlust.
Branch #2: Hell Revealed 2 - The slaughterfest genre.

http://i.imgur.com/KJaoPRs.png

Despite what I'm showing here, the general influences are a lot more complicated to analyse than what a lot of us would think.

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If you want to chart the history of the Doom community's creative odyssey using a visual aid of some kind, then a poorly-lopped tree planted by a historically ignorant Beavis isn't going to cut it. In fact, vegetation in general is off the cards, along with the Burgess Shale and anything else you can conceive of with a bias for capillaries or twigs. Direct inspiration - that is, projects knowingly divorced from any ulterior influences or ideas - only accounts for some of what gets made and ends up being in turn influential. I'm talking about ideas birthed from a forum or IRC-based discussion, habits and expectations that have been developed over years of forum-going, games developed outside of the community, new members etc.: How today's creations come into being can never be so neatly sourced back in time to a progenitor PWAD, like some trail of breadcrumbs through a conveniently-mapped labyrinth. The idea is dumb and betrays the complex and layered history behind the community as it is today.

EDIT: Dime, if you're reading this... evo when?

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While not a pwad, AV was perhaps influenced more by udoom e4. Initially the HR thing was very strong but most HR style maps were cut/reworked, while the e4 influences started from the beginning and can still be felt to even the final maps made for the project like AV05.

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