Where did the idea of Doom having lots of enemies came from?

[MegaSphere]

I just replayed vanilla maps to see if original Dooms really had that many enemies on the screen at once since people bash D4 for having small groups attacking the player and there barely is any difference. Did Doom community had some kind of collective amnesia, replayed Alien Vendetta and mistook it for original Dooms or something?

[Six]

MegaSphere said:

since people bash D4 for having small groups attacking the player...

They shouldn't have, since the game isn't out yet. Basing enemy count on media that is made with the intention to reveal only some parts of the game is a fairly large jump to conclusion. Until the game is available, i'd say people should hold their opinions on this. Speculation is just that, and a small portion of the game revealed does not represent the game in its entirety.

[Chezza]

We haven't seen the final game yet so it's not very appropriate to judge.

But I believe the idea of having lots of enemies is to cater for the veteran Doomers who find the vanilla numbers now too simple and boring. People want a sense of Doom where they must react very quickly less their fate be sealed in Hell. Basically a constant imagining of the famous Doom Cover.

Personally I'm a fewer is more guy if implemented right. Not easy in Doom as most of the time it means BS ambushes.

[Cruduxy Pegg]

Probably Plutonia which a lot seem to treat as if it was the real Doom2. Kinda similar to Doom 3. Doom 2 has a whole load of dark areas in vanilla doom 2 but some ports (especially ogl) make it seem bright.

[Gez]

MegaSphere said:

I just replayed vanilla maps to see if original Dooms really had that many enemies on the screen at once since people bash D4 for having small groups attacking the player and there barely is any difference. Did Doom community had some kind of collective amnesia, replayed Alien Vendetta and mistook it for original Dooms or something?

There are plenty of enemies at once in some maps, yes; especially in Doom II and Thy Flesh Consumed.

Here, I can count eight enemies (not necessarily alive) simultaneously, and given the level there are at least as many in the player's back. There are about 40 zombies that are active as soon as you enter the area, plus some imps and spectres.

How about the demon horde in Tricks & Traps? The big clusterfuck of The Courtyard? The teleport ambush in Suburbs? Situation where you over a dozen monsters active in the same room as the player are very common.

[Spectre01]

Gez said:

There are plenty of enemies at once in some maps, yes; especially in Doom II and Thy Flesh Consumed.

Here, I can count eight enemies (not necessarily alive) simultaneously, and given the level there are at least as many in the player's back. There are about 40 zombies that are active as soon as you enter the area, plus some imps and spectres.

How about the demon horde in Tricks & Traps? The big clusterfuck of The Courtyard? The teleport ambush in Suburbs? Situation where you over a dozen monsters active in the same room as the player are very common.

Doom 2 certainly added more "slaughter-lite" scenarios and higher monster counts starting with Tricks and Traps but it wasn't really a thing in the original Doom's 3 episodes. I highly doubt the Doom 4 engine will be able to handle any true BFG spam scenarios.

[mouldy]

[savagegrant]

Pegg said:

Probably Plutonia which a lot seem to treat as if it was the real Doom2.

Plutonia is Doom 2 done right. :P

[Spectre01]

And yet Plutonia almost always had less total monsters in each level compared to Doom 2.

[Chezza]

savagegrant said:

Plutonia is Doom 2 done right. :P

Post that in the controversial opinions thread, sir. Doom 2 levels are my most favorite!

[Maes]

DMINATOR.WAD for Doom 1 ;-)

Also, all PWADs with those mandatory, cheap "Pinkies' Chainsaw Massacre" moments. Ahh, the satisfaction of seeing the framerate slowly pick up back to playable levels as you mowed them down ;-)

[40oz]

The suburbs, courtyard, red key trap in e1m6, the exit area of e1m6, the start of e1m9, rocket launcher trap in e1m9, the bfg trap in e3m5, e3m6, the rocket launcher trap in the pit, the nukage canyon area in nirvana, the mancubus horde in the factory, imp spam in tricks and traps, the hellbaron/cybie conflict in tricks and traps, the entire ground level of industrial zone ... Are you sure were even playing the same game?

[Hoodie]

I'm tired of you Megasphere.

[Captain Ventris]

Hoodie said:

I'm tired of you Megasphere.

Whaaaat? But his posting history is filled with gems like calling people gay as a slur and harassing community members by asking for nude pics! This guy's a star!

[HavoX]

Hoodie said:

I'm tired of you Megasphere.

Well, that's what the Ignore list is here for...

[deadwolves]

MegaSphere said:

I just replayed vanilla maps to see if original Dooms really had that many enemies on the screen at once since people bash D4 for having small groups attacking the player and there barely is any difference. Did Doom community had some kind of collective amnesia, replayed Alien Vendetta and mistook it for original Dooms or something?

Since Doom 4 isn't out yet, how can you say that there's barely any difference? Besides Doom 3 levels tend to have way less enemies at the same time than vanilla Doom, and that was released about 10 years ago already.

[baja blast rd.]

More like Blur Sphere.

[BaronOfStuff]

rdwpa said:

More like Blur Sphere.

Hoho, I get it...

[vadrig4r]

Thanks Doom 4 for the influx of quality posters.

[40oz]

Welcome to losertown

[Tetzlaff]

I think Doom II's Dead Simple left a big impression. I think it's practically the level the whole Serious Same series originates from, because it is, as far as I know, the first multiple-waves arena level.