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Fonze

CEv7 - Short Boom+Doom 2 map - On /idgames

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New update before archive upload: Super-secret, super-stupid "UV" difficulty added on HNTR for reasons. 

CEv7
Format: Boom -cl 9
IWad: Doom 2
MIDI: "I" by Black Sabbath

Took me 10 minutes to run through on my first run, but it's down to between 6 and 8 now, so I'd say most average players will be looking at less than 15 minutes to complete this map (prolly closer to 10), barring deaths.


Screenshots:

Spoiler

exR6N1g.png
uPxz6Cu.png
WYercZC.png
94AGETA.png
VLnFIKF.png

 

Background/misc info:

 

 


If I had to classify the gameplay in this small map, I'd say it's very much cramped and "under pressure," regardless of whether the player finds it easy or difficult. Wasting time is somewhat discouraged; you gotta think and be quick to avoid some mobs deploying in unfortunate locations. Map suffers from flow and layout problems, which does detriment the gameplay a bit, but overall it is pretty fun and offers a decently varied experience depending on the player's actions: what paths they take, how long they spend there, pacifisting, etc which all change overall monster deployment. Balancing is fairly tight, which hopefully won't kill the fun too much, heh. 

 

I made this map a little while ago when I was writing some conveyor tutorials, getting into the different mechanics of conveyor belts and how their use can make encounters more dynamic, as well as studying the boom calculator; not really looking for feedback at this point as I've already gotten enough to see at least the major faults of this map, but I'm uploading this to the archives so I may as well update the thread. Still, if anybody does wind up playing this and wants to give some feedback or a demo, I'll happily take a check; they're always much appreciated! :)
 

 

Edited by Fonze

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Here's a Fda but not so fda because I played a little before I realized that I was playing on UV.

It's really nice, I liked the details and the setting. The gameplay was good. I like those kind of teleport traps with the belts, I use them too sometimes. I think that the red brick walls o the outer courtyard should be impassable on both sides, I could jump up there. And the ammo before the exit in the pipes alcoves can be removed imo. What's the music?

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Lol; I appreciate it man! Nice... SDA ;p

The song; I realize I forgot to credit it... It's "I" by Black Sabbath during the Dio years. Great song and great MIDI for Doom to me.

I totally forgot it was possible to just run up on that wall, but that's why the outside lines are impassable; the inside lines are passable for DM, though with a separate version for DM that seems stupid in retrospect. Idk; I'll figure something out, but that should be relatively harmless, aside from the fact that outside of the walls are not detailed, or existent, heh.

Ammo is definitely abundant towards the end, but depending on which path you take that extra ammo can be helpful, or if you do not get the RL and/or PG. I may go ahead and reduce it a small bit, worst case scenario you gotta run past a couple lower-tiered mobs to get more. Health's pretty abundant too so that shouldn't be too bad. Though of course only HMP is done so it shouldn't be too hard.

I'm glad you liked it, though! Thanks for the feedback and I look forward to any additional feedback from the community.

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For your dm aspect

Spawns in the exit is bad practice. Traditionally people toss power-ups or a chainsaw in the exit.
You really don't want little alcoves with midtexs where the person hidden can see outward but you can't see inwards.
Way too cramped, even for duel, everywhere. The actual mapsize itself is okay for duel maybe a tad on the large side, but the rooms are unbearably cramped, ESPECIALLY around the spawns.
Spawns in cramped little areas facing walls are bad.
Assuming this is for OS flags, the height difference is perhaps too much.
Get rid of those damn techlamps
Spawn placement by the exit is awful. Just have 1 spawn maybe outside the exit.
Nobody likes fake doors, especially ones above fake floors.
Seriously a crusher for green armour?
No spawn by the outside pool? oh there IS one, in a seizure cubby. And why bother with the shotgun out there if you spawn with ssg?
Open the damn doors. At least some of them, fuck.

I mean, for a SP map to DM conversion, it's okay. I would never voluntarily play this though, the layout has potential but the architecture fucks it up. Too many small spaces, bumpy beams, and cramped corridors make this make entirely non-conducive to deathmatch.

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Fonze said:

Ammo is definitely abundant towards the end, but depending on which path you take that extra ammo can be helpful, or if you do not get the RL and/or PG. I may go ahead and reduce it a small bit, worst case scenario you gotta run past a couple lower-tiered mobs to get more.


I think it was fine for the most, but I was talking of the things 266 and 267. Those ammo right before the exit seem pointless to me.

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What a load of old shi-

No, wait, that's my recent delve into the depths of D!Zone.
---
So what we've got here is actually quite nice, very much so visually, albeit as far as action goes it's a tad too generous with firepower. I mean, a Super Shotgun as soon as things start? Considering what we end up fighting against, that sort of damage probably could have waited, perhaps completely replacing the Plasma Rifle or Rocket Launcher.

All in all though, a fun little stomp that could make quite a nice opening map for a small set, after some tweaking.

And then I had to replay on UV and wow that was easy but I wanted a screenshot of this:


Edit:
Oh fuck! Yes I found the SS, wasn't hard to detect the required trigger thanks to some other item placement but actually aiming for it was a bit of a cunt.

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Good:

1. Visuals.
2. That scrolling floor at the start.
3. General composition of encounters.

Needs tweaking:

1. Overly cramped scale.
2. The false floor over the YK area on the path to the exit.
3. Infinite height issues w/ monsters that are active at the drop-off into the YK region.

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Ah nice; thanks everyone. That's exactly what I need to hear, too, Decay.

To Decay:
My goal wasn't originally a DM map, but having a separate one would allow me to easily change some of that without affecting the SP aspect. I don't mind if this DM version fades away as my main goal with it was for feedback to be able to reliably make a good DM map. Regardless, I will go ahead and update the DM one (mostly for my own reference later and just good practice). But that's all the more reason I appreciate feedback on it!

So if you don't mind a second reply, couple questions:

Where was this area behind a midtexture? None should be accessible without jumping and/or crouching.

Yeah, that fake floor (the door is real) was leftover from the real level. I think you're right that it should be removed, though I am not sure if it'd be better to leave it at ground level to keep the flow the same. I would like to know what you think of the way that the map flows (as it would affect a DM) with exit from the large room that everything flows to (where I'd assume most of the action would take place) is only possible through the east side of the map. On the flip side, making the fake floor real at it's present fake level would allow for an additional exit from the large room, though only to those up top (which can already just turn around) and those on the middle level, allowing them to turn around. It seems an unconventional flow for a DM so I'd like to hear some more thoughts on that.

The crusher is the same as the fake floor: leftover. I kinda liked the idea of leaving it in, though, but I didn't want to make that power-up too OP given its centralized location. More thoughts; better power-up or crushers=bad for DM?

Sorry about the lighting on that seizure cubby; I didn't consider that. The shotguns in the level were just present for the sake of having them, as they can have their uses in DM, albeit few. Perhaps I should just move it further out of the way so people are less likely to get annoyed grabbing it by accident.

Would this map have benefitted from less spawns, moved to more open areas? Some of the spawns were placed in areas that I felt like players were less likely to see, to try to reduce immediate deaths after spawning.



As for the rest of the points, I completely agree with them and will get to work, though as you said if the architecture itself ruins the experience then of course it'll all just amount to more practice for me, which I'm totally fine with.

I went ahead and updated the OP with a new version of the DM map to fix some of the mistakes. Can't do much about the architecture, though.

Thanks again man.

Ah I just noticed these other responses; thanks y'all! I'll comb through them shortly.



To BaronOfStuff: Lol, thanks for the thoughts, I'll see what I can do. Though I really wanted HMP to be very easy as my goal was

Spoiler

for this to be the map for the tutorials I've been writing on my off time. So HNTR will hopefully have no monsters, though it's looking like I'll have to break that rule. UV I'm having fun with.

Funny, btw, that you took a screenshot of that. Not even I would dare to do such a thing. Though I made it only reveal itself if the player finds the SS because I find it a bit tacky. I was drunk when I made it and it turned out well, so I left it in, to answer any questions of "why did I do it if I knew it was tacky?" I'm glad you found the SS, though; I put those items there just for that reason, because I wasn't sure that the button was too hard to find. It is a bit of a pain to shoot, but I felt like making the hole bigger would make the fake box look worse. Idk; I'll have to think about it some more.



To rdwpa: Thanks as well; I appreciate the points listed. I knew some people wouldn't like the fake floor, but my goal was a one-way trip. A bit underhanded on my part, I suppose. Not sure if I want to change it (for SP), though, as removing it would make it too obvious that it is a one-way trip. I'll have to brood on that some more.

The inf. height issues do suck really bad. Not much that I can do about them at this point, though, without completely reworking the level and its architecture (which on the bright side would let me make things less cramped, but on the down side the time needed would be better spent making a new level) or instituting complex teleporting traps for the enemies that appear below, as there are three different ways to get into that room. There are already a shit load of belts behind the scenes and teleports working so I hesitate to keep adding more, as at some point they will become unreliable.


Anyway, I'm going to ruminate on these points a bit more, take care of them, then get back to UV. Thanks again for all the feedback and I look forward to more!

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FDA

Pretty cool little map. My only major grievance is how tight the space is. If you multiplied the size of the areas by 2, it would make traversal a lot easier and intuitive. I also played like ass because I'm basically asleep at the PC right now. I can also say that some of the teleporting monsters might have been stuck in ineffective locations because of some tight passages and such, so making the areas larger would also fix that problem if it exists.

Detail wise it looks great, and most of the detail doesn't block movement which is also a plus. Good work!

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Gorgeous little map, lovely detail particularly in the key room. Gameplay is nicely paced always pressing you onwards.

Spoiler

I managed to find the SS and have to say I loved that secret. It felt so natural, as if the former humans had inadvertently stacked crates in front the "oh shit" button.

Overall one of the neatest maps I've played recently.

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Yeah the crates in front of the button was my favorite detail. Never saw that before.

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vadrig4r said:

Spoiler

I managed to find the SS and have to say I loved that secret. It felt so natural, as if the former humans had inadvertently stacked crates in front the "oh shit" button.


Lmfao!

I'm glad y'all liked it and thanks for the kind words! I make questionable calls sometimes and detailing has never been my strong suit so I'm glad to hear the positive feedback.

Also, thanks for the FDA Rayzik. I enjoy watching your demos and YouTube channel so it's cool to see one here from you.

While I likely won't change the scale of this map, as far as the tight quarters goes, I will certainly keep it in mind when designing my next map. I didn't want the big room to get as cluttered as it did but unfortunately that's the way it had to be to match what I wanted for the layout (concerning the 3 levels overlapping one another; I actually wanted a larger top and middle section, but balked at the idea of detailing on such a large scale. Next time, though).

I may be in the process of making questionable calls for UV, but we'll see how I feel on it as I finish it up and playtest the Hell out of the thing.

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Fonze said:

Where was this area behind a midtexture? None should be accessible without jumping and/or crouching.


Where the fake floor was.

Fonze said:

Yeah, that fake floor (the door is real) was leftover from the real level. I think you're right that it should be removed, though I am not sure if it'd be better to leave it at ground level to keep the flow the same. I would like to know what you think of the way that the map flows (as it would affect a DM) with exit from the large room that everything flows to (where I'd assume most of the action would take place) is only possible through the east side of the map. On the flip side, making the fake floor real at it's present fake level would allow for an additional exit from the large room, though only to those up top (which can already just turn around) and those on the middle level, allowing them to turn around. It seems an unconventional flow for a DM so I'd like to hear some more thoughts on that.

The only purpose an exit serves in DM is to kill yourself, and 99.9% of players will not do this. Therefore an exit is pointless unless you want 1993 ports compatible.

Doors inhibit flow, tech lamps inhibit flow, cramped corridors and bumpy beams inhibit floor, this is no flow in this map, it's linear.

Fonze said:

The crusher is the same as the fake floor: leftover. I kinda liked the idea of leaving it in, though, but I didn't want to make that power-up too OP given its centralized location. More thoughts; better power-up or crushers=bad for DM?

What are we talking about here, item respawn or no? Probably a soulsphere or maybe put the plasma there. Was there a bfg anywhere in this map?

Crushers are niche, but in this kind of case it's fine so long as it doesn't outright kill you.

Fonze said:

Sorry about the lighting on that seizure cubby; I didn't consider that. The shotguns in the level were just present for the sake of having them, as they can have their uses in DM, albeit few. Perhaps I should just move it further out of the way so people are less likely to get annoyed grabbing it by accident.

If you have a SSG the ONLY purpose the sg is going to serve is extra ammo. If you want any type of precision, you will change to chaingun.

Fonze said:

Would this map have benefitted from less spawns, moved to more open areas? Some of the spawns were placed in areas that I felt like players were less likely to see, to try to reduce immediate deaths after spawning.

Typically a good number of spawns for duel/dm is 5-7. Place them wisely.

Fonze said:

As for the rest of the points, I completely agree with them and will get to work, though as you said if the architecture itself ruins the experience then of course it'll all just amount to more practice for me, which I'm totally fine with.

I went ahead and updated the OP with a new version of the DM map to fix some of the mistakes. Can't do much about the architecture, though.

If the architecture remains, it will remain a subpar dm map no matter what you do. It's just too tight in too many places and you aren't learning much. You'll learn more by actually playing DM mapsets frequently. Play a large variety of mapsets under different flag sets (OS, NOS, NS), with DIFFERENT people who have different skill levels and taste, and take the time to duel on all the major maps. By doing this hopefully you'll avoid making a travesty like BucketDM.

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Decay said:

Where the fake floor was.


Ah, true. Dumb me.

The only purpose an exit serves in DM is to kill yourself, and 99.9% of players will not do this. Therefore an exit is pointless unless you want 1993 ports compatible.


Fair enough, I just always assumed it was still good practice to do so.

Doors inhibit flow, tech lamps inhibit flow, cramped corridors and bumpy beams inhibit floor, this is no flow in this map, it's linear.


Interesting, I suppose I've been looking at it from its SP PoV; put like that I see what you mean. Of course if movement is restricted that'll inhibit flow, but I suppose it felt roomy to me, heh. But on the other hand, if there is no exit or one set starting point it is linear to get to each part of the level, save the big room, and that is bad the more I think of it.

What are we talking about here, item respawn or no? Probably a soulsphere or maybe put the plasma there. Was there a bfg anywhere in this map?


I just meant with normal DM flags. But I suppose this is all moot if I've been looking at the way a match would play out all wrong. It'd really be far more helpful for me to play against someone on this map to be able to see it's flaws in action, but I think I get the gist of it well-enough. Oh and I didn't put in a BFG because there was no real area easily accessible to all, yet not quickly/easily reached.

Typically a good number of spawns for duel/dm is 5-7. Place them wisely.


Awesome, thanks.

If the architecture remains, it will remain a subpar dm map no matter what you do. It's just too tight in too many places and you aren't learning much. You'll learn more by actually playing DM mapsets frequently. Play a large variety of mapsets under different flag sets (OS, NOS, NS), with DIFFERENT people who have different skill levels and taste, and take the time to duel on all the major maps. By doing this hopefully you'll avoid making a travesty like BucketDM.


That's all fair enough; like I said, I don't mind if this DM version fades away. All I did on that update was quick to do, but along the same lines of what you said, I wouldn't be learning much for the amount of time that'd be required to actually fix it up. Think of my further editing as correcting my notes for later.

I've been getting more into DM and playing with different people; have some good matches and some bad ones, so I suppose the rest will just have to come with time. Anyway, thanks for the input; I learned a bit and it'll certainly be useful in the future, which makes the time used for the DM version worth it to me.

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I've updated the OP with the newest version of the map. UV has been added and though I'm not totally sold on it quite yet, it tests fine for me and I'd like to hear what some better players think of it. It's pretty tough and unforgiving depending on your choices, but very generous on health and ammo. Each route is possible, with many different outcomes based on how you play, though on such a small map they all are arbitrary and inevitably lead to the same places.

For those who played this the first go-around,

Spoiler

you may remember a baron teleporting around different spots on the map; it's much worse on UV. In addition, pressure is applied on the player from the start with a baron while the player doesn't have the resources to take it on, so expect him to follow you for a bit. If you are dumb enough to waste time killing him, what used to be a baron will likely have enough time to make it to the teleporter that takes them to the starting room(s), so consider wasting time to be discouraged here.

If I had to classify the gameplay in this map, I'd say it's very much "under pressure," regardless of if the player finds it easy-or-not.

I would like to hear some more thoughts on this and would love to see some demos for this as well.

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Demo recorded last night. (1 death, DNF). My play eventually deteriorated into total garbage due to sleepiness (beyond the usual deterioration, I mean :D). Favorite part was the YK trap, the fact that it

Spoiler

doesn't happen at the YK grab. Always nice to be caught off balance by a trap.

The AV part seems to not function properly. Reading your spoiler now, maybe it was supposed to teleport or something?

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Fonze said:

I've updated the OP with the newest version of the map. UV has been added and though I'm not totally sold on it quite yet, it tests fine for me and I'd like to hear what some better players think of it. It's pretty tough and unforgiving depending on your choices, but very generous on health and ammo. Each route is possible, with many different outcomes based on how you play, though on such a small map they all are arbitrary and inevitably lead to the same places.

For those who played this the first go-around,

Spoiler

you may remember a baron teleporting around different spots on the map; it's much worse on UV. In addition, pressure is applied on the player from the start with a baron while the player doesn't have the resources to take it on, so expect him to follow you for a bit. If you are dumb enough to waste time killing him, what used to be a baron will likely have enough time to make it to the teleporter that takes them to the starting room(s), so consider wasting time to be discouraged here.

If I had to classify the gameplay in this map, I'd say it's very much "under pressure," regardless of if the player finds it easy-or-not.

I would like to hear some more thoughts on this and would love to see some demos for this as well.

You definitely nailed the sense of constantly being under pressure well! I'm going to have to come back to this when I'm fresher to give it a proper go and feedback.

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rdwpa said:

Demo recorded last night. (1 death, DNF). My play eventually deteriorated into total garbage due to sleepiness (beyond the usual deterioration, I mean :D). Favorite part was the YK trap, the fact that it

Spoiler

doesn't happen at the YK grab. Always nice to be caught off balance by a trap.

The AV part seems to not function properly. Reading your spoiler now, maybe it was supposed to teleport or something?


Ah awesome; just finished watching the demo; that was a good watch!

Even though I don't get to much anymore (because of trying to get through as many maps as possible in x amount of time for TWID in order to do some justice by the maps I overview[can't really call it a review]/testing my own maps), my preferred style of playing is to cause as much in-fighting as possible, so I especially enjoyed watching this demo for all the in-fighting you caused :)

I'm also really glad you sent in a demo and some feedback here, I was interested to see what you'd say because I tend to agree with your points.

I didn't expect you to book it out of the big room so quickly and I'm very surprised you survived doing it. That part of the demo was pretty sweet, though, heh. After that I just knew you were going to make it >.<

Regarding the AV...

Spoiler

There are 4 in the map; the first one you killed was the "special" one. The one that killed you was one that is always there. He is meant to be just a standard fight with shotgunners+AV; easy to take out if you have rockets (or cells), which teleport in the other room (if you don't still have some), which also has another AV and some mobs. But the small door and lining supports make him leaving that room a random event, so sometimes he'll sneak up on you if you had taken the other room first. That PE actually snuck in from the big room, heh.

The "special" one operates basically on a semi-dynamic timer. 2 minutes to teleport into the first room if you do not go left/right or enter the big room through the green armor room, 30 seconds to teleport into the left/right rooms respectively while not stopping the first timer, the first timer÷2 to teleport into the big room in a couple places if you hit the lift or enter the big room from outside. Entering the big room from the green armor room stops the first timer at its original speed. Setting off the YK trap moves him to the second timer system.

What basically happened was you spent so long in the first 2 rooms (ironically the only second room that does nothing, heh) messing with the baron, which I didn't imagine anyone would do (but when it hit one minute my exact thought was "is this about to happen? Oh let one more minute tick by") that by the time you hit the trigger in the dark room he didn't have enough time to make it to that teleport, causing him to teleport to the same position as if you had hit the lift. It's a bit strange of a mechanic, but working with the timer added an interesting perspective to the basic dynamic teleport trap so I decided to go with it and the effect here was that when you did make it up to that top area of the big room, he was already there waiting (which in all fairness is where he likely would have wound up anyway had you acted quickly getting up there), which cost you extra time in the form of window-campy in-fighting. I'm not particularly happy with that loss of extra time as well as the general result, but at the same time it seems to still hold that it worked as intended, as the goal from that is for you to either die or really struggle for taking too long; part of the "under pressure" vibe I wanted to achieve. The system was built to protect more from people starting off one way then choosing another than from him teleporting to the next room. Perhaps you'd have some thoughts on this.

Anyway, mindless ramblings aside I really appreciate the demo and feedback! Thanks also, vadrig4r, for the compliment; I look forward to your thoughts. I also look forward to any more that come in!

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Hey, this was pretty entertaining, not half bad for something this small. Here, have a skill 4 FDA. You almost had me for a little while there. At first I was arrogantly thinking to myself "oh, this isn't anything I can't handle", but then I somehow managed to squander most of the 'secret' soulsphere via bad play and then was caught off-guard by how deep the YK ambush/replenishment was. Having a second wave timed to wait several beats after the first before activating in the side areas was a very clever idea (and what almost killed me was a chaingunner appearing in exactly the wrong place at exactly the wrong time), I must say.....players learn fast, and I reckon more and more of us are getting used to the device of timed waves in a setpiece or arena-type scenario, but this of course is not an arena-style encounter. I was caught off-guard, pleasantly so.

Thing-balance seems about on point, perhaps just slightly (and deceptively) leaning on the side of austerity. One of the later pain elementals really got out of control after I nope'd out of the large silver control room, and its endless progeny ended up eating a lot of my ammo, but I was able to 'balance the budget' in the end, largely on account of fistwork I'd done earlier on. Not having the plasma gun (I assume it was one of those and not a BFG, anyway) played a big part in this, of course; watching the recording I see the little switch that I missed (figures I'd find the tiny-ass soulsphere switch and then totally miss the more obvious one), I can only assume that if I'd picked it up at first opportunity I wouldn't have had to sweat so much during the later stages. Some players may carp that this tool is too important to be secret in this case; I wouldn't agree, personally, but I do reckon it might be fair play to actually have the secrets flagged as secret in future maps. ;

Most of my main gripes have already been covered several times by others. The big one is that parts of the map are absolutely too cramped in scale for their own good, most notably the wraparound hall with the rocket launcher and the cracks and crannies formed by the bridge and platforms in the large silver room. Moving around and feeling like you're scraping your elbows against the wall constantly is a vague (but significant) psychological irritant, to be sure, but more importantly this kind of squidgy geometry also bogs down monster-pathing and can thus hamper the flow and fluidity of gameplay, especially in cat/mouse scenarios like what you were going for here. The arch-vile who appears in the soulsphere room is an illustrative example from the FDA; notice how he wanders into the tiny space behind the little computer terminal and the east wall, resurrects a knight who got killed back there (who was too large to ever be able to leave, incidentally), and then gets totally stuck and rendered useless as a result--I let him out (yes, Demon, they'll SURELY believe you did that on purpose...), but I could just as well have ignored him. Issues with door-clogs and infinitely-tall shenanigans also developed later in the map, and again, the root cause of pretty much all of them was the very cramped scale.

Visually it worked well enough, I thought. You used quite a lot of textures and colors but presented a mostly coherent/reasonable tableau (the outdoor yard looked a mite noisy to me, probably the red mario-bricks that pushed it a little over the edge), something many mappers try but that not a whole lot can actually pull off. Between the complicated texture-tapestry and ceiling detail I was most reminded of franckFRAG's work, generally not at all an unfavorable comparison. I was very cognizant that the vast majority of the layout was comprised of regular boxes with objects (partitions, platforms, etc.) scattered around in the middle of them, however; mind you, I think you did a good job implementing gameplay that fit well with the nature of the structure, but a good next step in later maps might be to try for a wider variety of room shapes, more open space in general, and perhaps less rigid segmentation between areas (each major room here is separated from the others by a either a narrow door or a steep lift or dropoff), which would work just as well if not better with the whole 'calculated eventuality' flavor to monster deployment you've got going on here, as well as present a more immersive world (although I suppose that latter point's a matter of "IMO", I guess).

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Sweet; always enjoy a good FDA (and that was a good one, too).

Also, I really appreciate your advice and thoughts here; that's exactly the kind of stuff that I need to hear. There are certain things that nag at the back of our minds as we do things and one of them for me here was the overwhelming boxy-ness of this map. I'm glad to hear so many people say it looks nice, but even more glad to hear someone point it out because it's all to easy to "conveniently" forget about something when it's never really brought to light and I'm just as guilty as any of being lazy at times in my thoughts and learning.

Tbh, I don't think I had you at all; you did an excellent job of mitigating two of the main sources of pressure in the map (the first being that first, mostly harmless baron that comes in and the second being the "special" AV). The Tyson rage in this demo was real. I'm glad that you liked the way the encounters played out, though few of them are set in stone. Every monster that teleports in has at least one alternate, so it's good for me to see them play out as I can only simulate so many decisions and play styles, due to my own imagination's failings. The chaingunner and rev that came in were on their alternate path to have landed there. (you fired your gun)

As for the PG, it's not secret, but kinda hidden in that it's between the pillars in the big room on the ground level. Perhaps I could move it; I'll have to think on that. Ammo looked to be about where I had envisioned it without grabbing the PG, but the problem becomes overabundance on such a small map after you grab it. I did lol when you dipped out of the big room. On secrets, I wish I could flag the SS as a secret, but that's really the only one in this map. Perhaps I should just put one in somewhere so people don't feel like I did and didn't flag them.

The infinite-tallness did really hamper this map, as well as its cramped scale. I will definitely work on that with my next map, but for that AV and HK, the HK does normally leave that back area (in fact, that's where he starts) but you're 100% right that it was too cramped because the proof is in the pudding which I sat down and ate as I watched the demo. But the same goes for that door directly in front of the player start; monsters act a bit random due to the support beams lining it on the other side (in rdwpa's demo the AV refused to leave that room, while in yours he came right on out). There was a lot of randomness that I tried to cultivate within this map, but sometimes random can be a bad thing, and perhaps I crossed that line with a couple decisions. More reason why I appreciate this feedback!

Yeah those Mario bricks (heh) were maybe a bit too much, but working with only stock Doom 2 textures I felt like it was just all starting to look the same in every room, though I suppose on the bright side it did lead to a set theme, which was nice. I agree, though, I hated how boxy this map turned out. Partly the reason for the circles in the ceilings and the randomly circled path in the north-west and exit area. I also felt really lazy with my design of the exit area.

I really appreciate your advice and will keep it in mind with future maps.

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Small update and uploading this dust pile to the archives. Thanks to all those that gave feedback! <3

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This is a pretty cool little chaotic map! The YK room is a fun setup spatially - I loved skateboarding across the platforms while stun-locking the turret Arachnotron, that just felt super slick for some reason. Nice job of making things feel unpredictable.

 

Lol at the credits - I'm glad I could be helpful in some fashion!

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29 minutes ago, Not Jabba said:

Lol at the credits - I'm glad I could be helpful in some fashion!

Heh! I'm surprised anyone bothered to read that; doubly-so that you happened to for this map. Idk if Doomkid knows or not but he got a thanks in one map's credits for having great nails, and Decay brought fat smiles :O)

 

Glad you liked the map though; it was fun to revisit something from a couple years ago and nice to take it off the dust-collection pile to "officially" finish it. 

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I'm probably the only one that cares about this but on the txt file (and therefore the idgames page) you have "Music: No".

 

Anyway fun little map, enjoyed playing it.

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Lol oops; good look. If I ever need to reupload the map I'll be sure to fix that in the text file. Thanks for playing :)

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