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julz_d

F_sky in snap map?

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I know it has been stated that you cannot have an "outdoor area" in snap map. However do you guys think it is possible to have a fake sky or sky box or something along those lines? After all, they were doing these kind of things in the 90s.

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No.

What exactly do you suppose the difference is between the skybox in Doom and a skybox in an outside area of Doom 2016 would be?

The point they are making is that in Snapmap, all of the map "pieces" which you "snap" together to make maps are indoor rooms and corridors. There are no outdoor pieces.

I actually don't think it would be too much of a technical difficulty to make such pieces, but that's the decision they have made.

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There's an issue with having a skybox, whether its a skylight or a window, with pieces that can snap together.

It's been shown there are multi floor tiles in Snapmap; tiles that have ramps or stairs leading up several stories. If you have a hallway leading into this giant room with a skylight, you would then need to model the outside walls, otherwise you run into problems.
Here's a picture to show what I mean.


If you are in the green room looking through the skylight at the purple room, you would be looking at an outside wall. They would have to create assets for every tile for this to be possible, so I doubt it would happen.

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See your example there. I was thinking more in the lines of the purple box that's an example simply having a fake sky such as in classic doom where this is easily doable . In this case the Cyan and green box would have no skylight rendering such an issue nonexistent for that particular method .

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But since you can have rooms on top of other rooms (this isn't 1993 people!), no kind of "skylight" type thing would ever really work.

You might be able to work something out if you had specific "outdoor" blocks that are infinitely tall to avoid that clipping issue but you still run into the problem wheresthebeef mentioned, that you'd need to model and texture the outside of every piece, have have them not look like a hamster maze.

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I'm getting just a little tired of folks trying to apply DoomBuilder rules to a fully 3D modern game editor...

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julz_d said:

After all, they were doing these kind of things in the 90s.


Yeah, but the 90s is the 90s. Update your fucking clock.

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DMGUYDZ64 said:

Still that won't allow you to create realistic skybox, which moves with the player .


Yeah because the real sky totally moves when you do.

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AirRaid said:

Yeah because the real sky totally moves when you do.


Because it does?

EDIT: To clarify. He means the sky will move backwards when you move forward. Not that a mountain is only 10 meters away but you never reach it because it doesn't move.

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No it doesn't. It might seem that way because of the vast scale, but it does not move. Nor do any of the distant landscape on the horizon which would be included in this kind of "skybox" in a modern game.

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BTW in Rage sky is a sphere mesh with skies texture...its scale is just soo fucking big that you never notice that it change its position acording to player's traversal)

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Timesplitters 3 MapMaker allowed for tiles with skies instead of ceiling, but I can't remember exactly how it worked.

It might just have been tiles on the top layer had an open sky.

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If that's the case, it ought to be workable in snap map too. But making legit outdoor areas might still be too difficult...

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Not gonna happen. They've been pretty clear that SnapMap is intended for small interior spaces similar to what you would find in many DM levels.

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Well i am sure someone will remake the Doom 3 campaigns at least. Just need all the monsters.

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I admit maybe the 1990s it was a bad example. A more modern one would be far cry instincts predator on the console in that you basically start out with one large sky and then place things in between, which is how many of the maps people did were made . This is a large step above what I had mentioned earlier though. If this were the case for snap map then you could create quake style levels with jump pads type of thing. So yeah far cry is a bit newer than the 1990s so I updated my Clock a little bit for you there .

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Clipping issues are honestly not a problem, they could easily do occlusion testing versus the sky brushes or whatever to deal with visual weirdness like peering into rooms from the outside. I suspect the greater issue is that simple skyboxes are pretty much a thing of the past these days, and they'd rather impose a strict indoor-only limit on players than disappoint them with the lack of an ability to build big and proper outdoor spaces.

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Zemini said:

Well i am sure someone will remake the Doom 3 campaigns at least. Just need all the monsters.


It's already been established that it'll be impossible to make even a Doom 1 level, what makes you think that the Doom 3 levels, which are infinitely more complex, would be possible instead?

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It is mostly indoor rooms. I just meant that it would be easier to make something that resembles the Doom 3 levels than blocky classic Knee-Deep in the Dead.

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Captain Toenail said:

Timesplitters 3 MapMaker allowed for tiles with skies instead of ceiling, but I can't remember exactly how it worked.

It might just have been tiles on the top layer had an open sky.

Yeah pretty much

Basically in "Map settings" you had to enable it with the "Open sky" option.

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