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Jellyman1303

Can Doom be E-Sports material?

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So I watched this video explaining if Doom could be played competitively in the E-Sports scene.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7it2RSxCpdw

I was wondering what else could Id Software change so that Doom could be viable for E-Sport players, especially since it might be competing against the new Unreal Tournament.

Personally I would like them to take elements from Quake 3/Live and add them into Doom's MP (such as bigger maps and launch pads).

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I hate to say this, but DOOM as an eSports title is not very likely. Only possible occasion I can see it played competitively is QuakeCon.

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The game is likely too gory to ever become a popular e-sport. You might not like it, but that's the reality.

EDIT: Obviously gameplay-wise it has potential, but you'll never see it up there with CS:GO, COD, Rocket League, LoL ... etc.

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There's a $75,000 prize pool Rocket League tournament coming up.

And TBH it's a brilliant game for that kind of thing. It's a game with really simple rules but a really high skill ceiling. And it's pretty fun to watch, too.

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TheWizard said:

The game is likely too gory to ever become a popular e-sport.

I'm pretty sure that Mortal Kombat is an e-sport.

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AirRaid said:

There's a $75,000 prize pool Rocket League tournament coming up.

And TBH it's a brilliant game for that kind of thing. It's a game with really simple rules but a really high skill ceiling. And it's pretty fun to watch, too.

I was thinking about trying to get in that actually :)

Do you play?

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DoomUK said:

I'm pretty sure that Mortal Kombat is an e-sport.


That's a good point.


Either way, I really really want Doom to be an E-Sports title, we will see.

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I doubt it.

IMHO competitive E-sports games are completely centered around one thing: Player skill. A good e-sports game highlights a skilled player and punishes an unskilled one.

Counter Strike, Quake 3 and Starcraft are examples of games that have an extremely high skill-ceiling. A good player is noticeably good. Its not like Call of Duty where a bad player can hide in a corner racking up kills until he gets his insta-win supply drop.

Sadly, I think the Demon-rune and Gauss Rifle would need to be removed for the game to take off competitively. Don't get me started on the hack things. (Seeing where my killer is going? Talk about removing skill.)

Also. Arena based shooters aren't doing well from what I can see. Quake 3 is dead. Unreal has a handful of servers across all the titles. (Except the new engine.) Quake Live is hurting in a bad way...

...that's really all I can think of. I booted up Doom 3 and found a whopping ONE server. :P

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Ironhound said:

I doubt it.

IMHO competitive E-sports games are completely centered around one thing: Player skill. A good e-sports game highlights a skilled player and punishes an unskilled one.

Counter Strike, Quake 3 and Starcraft are examples of games that have an extremely high skill-ceiling. A good player is noticeably good. Its not like Call of Duty where a bad player can hide in a corner racking up kills until he gets his insta-win supply drop.

Sadly, I think the Demon-rune and Gauss Rifle would need to be removed for the game to take off competitively. Don't get me started on the hack things. (Seeing where my killer is going? Talk about removing skill.)

Also. Arena based shooters aren't doing well from what I can see. Quake 3 is dead. Unreal has a handful of servers across all the titles. (Except the new engine.) Quake Live is hurting in a bad way...

...that's really all I can think of. I booted up Doom 3 and found a whopping ONE server. :P

`

Well you can make your own Snapmap mode that doesn't contain those.

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Ironhound said:

Counter Strike, Quake 3 and Starcraft are examples of games that have an extremely high skill-ceiling. A good player is noticeably good.

Doom2 is like that as well. I know the speed is notably slower and there's a new arsenal and set of powerups, but even with those additions, I'm expecting something exponentially closer to Quake than CoD, re gameplay.

If the maps are interesting yet straightforward, that will make the experience, to me anyway. Footage shows MP gameplay looking rather satisfactory, so currently I'm just holding out to see map designs.

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I'd prefer if Doom kept out of this toxic E-Sports environment all together..

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Glaice said:

I'd prefer if Doom kept out of this toxic E-Sports environment all together..

Buh? Usually the e-sports side of the game is the least toxic side. Because, y'know, it's broadcast. Being an asshat is liable to get you disqualified for poor sportsmanship.

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Would be fun if it took off. I enjoy watching some Street Fighter, I think I'd enjoy watching a competitive arena shooter even more. I have seen a couple Quake matches like that with commentary, it's usually fun.

I know Evo is a fighting game thing, but it would be fun and random if there was a Doom setup too.

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Glaice said:

I'd prefer if Doom kept out of this toxic E-Sports environment all together..


What makes eSports toxic? Or is this just a general "multiplayer is for assholes" sentiment?

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I know it's Doom2, but the 2013 Quakecon tournament shows how to do Doom as an e-sport the right way. The commentators aren't just common taters, they actually know how the game works. I imagine similar broadcasts done once Doom4 is out would have appeal to quite a lot of gamers.

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Doomkid said:

I know it's Doom2, but the 2013 Quakecon tournament shows how to do Doom as an e-sport the right way. The commentators aren't just common taters, they actually know how the game works. I imagine similar broadcasts done once Doom4 is out would have appeal to quite a lot of gamers.

Yeesh. The commentators are good, but this is a pretty clear example of how a FPS really needs good spectator HUDs in an e-sports scene, with like a minimap and information on all the players. CS:GO from what I've seen is a pretty good example of one.

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Doomkid said:

I know it's Doom2, but the 2013 Quakecon tournament shows how to do Doom as an e-sport the right way. The commentators aren't just common taters, they actually know how the game works. I imagine similar broadcasts done once Doom4 is out would have appeal to quite a lot of gamers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jQbkE09nIc


i really enjoyed the first map of that series.

doom has potential to be a successful esport, but enough copies of the game has to sell with enough people wanting to play it to drive bethesda/id to support doom as an esport outside of just quakecon.

if new doom does well enough it would be awesome to see quakecon expand into something bigger that had more regular doom tournaments. it would need a competitive based config as well, similar to how counter strike has casual and competitive cvar's on server configs to better support competitive play. until we see the new doom in its entirety we wont know what things should be a competitive feature or not.

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One thing that immediately springs to mind as something that would really benefit competitive play would be both set spawn locations and regular spawn and respawn times for super weapons and the demon rune. Make them more akin to standard powerups in Unreal Tournament and Quake.

Stuff like DOTA does have some randomization akin to that while still be competitive - the position and type of special rune at every rune respawn is the most direct comparison, but also Roshan's respawn timer - but Doom doesn't seem like a fit for that sort of thing.

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I think the demon rune does have a set respawn time. And the Super weapon spawns are linked to the demon rune being picked up. Their position is slightly random though, there's a few spawn points for each.

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Regarding spectator HUDs, ZDaemon has a very effective picture-in-picture showing the opponent's view as well, giving far more context to the battle overall. An optional second PIP for the automap view of player positions (kinda like the 0.3 Alpha, actually) would be damn sweet, though. Even more so if it had adjustable transparency.

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Are any of the older doom fans here disappointed with some of the game design choices in this Doom? Do you feel as if the amount of animations in the game are harmful to competitive gameplay and strays from the arena shooter core? People here ARE disappointed about the classes right? Just curious.

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MultiLockOn said:

Are any of the older doom fans here disappointed with some of the game design choices in this Doom? Do you feel as if the amount of animations in the game are harmful to competitive gameplay and strays from the arena shooter core? People here ARE disappointed about the classes right? Just curious.


I think people are overestimating how automated DOOM will be, mostly because of the trailers. It's going to be a very skill-based game. Quake 3 has the highest possible skill ceiling a game can have, so it's tough for any game to be compared to that.

iD have said themselves that they constantly asked themselves "Is this fun?" when going over possible features, instead of "Is this pure?". So that's the top priority, which I agree with, as long as there's still plenty of skill depth.

As for the loadouts, the goal there is to have players start higher up the chain of weaponry, while still needing to move around the map to acquire the power weapons, the demon rune, the power-ups, and health/armor. So moving around the map is still vital. The only difference is that the player isn't spending as much time running around with a crappy weapon (i.e. the chaingun from Quake 3).

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Only the time will tell. But go on twitch and you'll see no id game being streamed most of the time. While e-sport monsters like CS:GO and League of Legends have thousands of people following streams.

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