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Death Egg

Limitation projects

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So, what are all the limitation projects that have been started over the years? Things like 1024x1024, 1 Monster, 10 Sectors, 5 Rooms, Fifty Shades of GRAYTALL, 64:64, etc. I guess you could count vanilla mapping and speedmapping too.

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Death Egg said:

I guess you could count vanilla mapping and speedmapping too.

I guess you could count mapping for any particular game engine too, as long as the project is limited to using that one engine. For that matter, I guess you could count projects that have to be created and played on a computer-like machine also limiting, by impossibility to make the game turn into real life.

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scifista42 said:

I guess you could count mapping for any particular game engine too, as long as the project is limited to using that one engine. For that matter, I guess you could count projects that have to be created and played on a computer-like machine also limiting, by impossibility to make the game turn into real life.

Your point being?

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That the definition of what counts as "limitation projects" isn't clearly given. One could say that every project ever was a limitation project, and it would be true. Accepting vanilla mapping and speedmapping as examples of "limitation projects" is quite a big step towards that slippery slope, especially vanilla mapping which is constituted by real limits of the engine, as opposed to purely arbitrary and simple limitations like grid size or linedef/sector/room count established by the project's participants themselves.

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I'd say vanilla mapping is borderline. Those real limits aren't real anymore - show me a person who plays exclusively with Chocolate Doom. All it gives you is limitations, with no clear advantages other than the fact that you're limiting yourself to spur your creativity.

Speedmapping is clearly a limitation mapping. The fact that it's popular and common doesn't change anything.

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Da Werecat said:

Those real limits aren't real anymore - show me a person who plays exclusively with Chocolate Doom. All it gives you is limitations, with no clear advantages other than the fact that you're limiting yourself to spur your creativity.

I disagree - there might be players who use less advanced Doom engines for practical reasons such as speedrunning or being on a peculiar system (and of course those who just prefer it), and then the clear advantage of vanilla mapping is catering for such potential players. I actually tend to think like that when mapping for vanilla, I don't do that just for "spurring creativity", but the idea of the widest possible compatibility is appealing for itself.

Da Werecat said:

Speedmapping is clearly a limitation mapping. The fact that it's popular and common doesn't change anything.

Yes, it is, and yes, it doesn't. However, I think that limitations affecting the way how the map is created (the time it takes, the editing procedures used) are a "higher" and "broader" form of limitations in comparison with limitations affecting the actual result of the mapping (the structure and features of the final map).

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For the sake of not including literally every wad ever made from ~2000 and before, let's assume vanilla is not a criteria.

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scifista42 said:

I disagree - there might be players who use less advanced Doom engines for practical reasons such as speedrunning

Less advanced engines ≠ vanilla. You don't need vanilla for speedrunning.

scifista42 said:

peculiar system

I can imagine the few players who can't afford limit-removing also having troubles with modern vanilla projects. Hard engine limits constrain mappers rather selectively.

Doomkid has a point though.

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OK, back to the OP's question. I'm going to guess that Death Egg is looking for a list of all particular and actually released limitation projects, as opposed to merely concepts or types of them. There you go, here are some that I could think of / find at the moment:

1024x1024 map size projects
2048x2048 map size projects
512x512 map size projects
Congestion 384
Congestion 64 (haha)
10 Sectors
2 Sectors (covered by 1024x1024 category too)
100 lines
Horalky (with a mention of a Russian project "Grid 64 Contest")
32 Inch Nails
Eternal's 2x2 series
Five Rooms of Doom
1 Monster
MAYhem 2013 (2 monster types)
Monochrome Mapping Project
50 Shades of Graytall

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There's also Mayhem 1500 (maps made under the 1500 lines limit), Texture Extravaganza (4 walls / floors plus 2 other texture from a random texture generator), and I also heard of congestion 192 project in the Russian community...

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For hardcore mode, try "no SUPPORT3" community project. Or "no trapped keys" community project but this is probably humanly impossible.

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kuchitsu said:

For hardcore mode, try "no SUPPORT3" community project. Or "no trapped keys" community project but this is probably humanly impossible.

/me edits support2 to properly tile vertically

Problem solved!!

Really though, some maps feature an abundance of borders, even where they aren't necessary, which arguably looks worse than just not using them, in some instances.

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kuchitsu said:

For hardcore mode, try "no SUPPORT3" community project. Or "no trapped keys" community project but this is probably humanly impossible.

You can get around that with a door texture, don't recall its exact name now :P

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kuchitsu said:

Or "no trapped keys" community project but this is probably humanly impossible.

Haha... call it American McGee Appreciation Community Project.

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kuchitsu said:

For hardcore mode, try "no SUPPORT3" community project. Or "no trapped keys" community project but this is probably humanly impossible.


I strongly doubt that even the biggest keytrap addict would have trouble with that. You just situate the main encounters before the key, which is given as a 'reward' at some point thereafter.

I'd personally like to see a no-brown community project.

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rdwpa said:

I'd personally like to see a no-brown community project.

No-brown no-tan no-grey no-silver no-black, that.

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Albertoni said:

You can get around that with a door texture, don't recall its exact name now :P

BIGDOOR5?

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TimeOfDeath said:

e1m1mem - doom e1m1 mapping from memory
av20mem - av map20 mapping from memory
em116 - eternall mapping from memory

I've joked w/ people on IRC lately about remaking IWAD maps, but I didn't know I wanted a 'remake famous pwad maps' project this bad until now.

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Remake KDIKDIZD maps from memory

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DoomLover234 said:

BIGDOOR5?

Exactly.

TimeOfDeath said:

e1m1mem - doom e1m1 mapping from memory

Oh my god this idea is pure genius. It'll probably suck though.
Edit: Yeah, there's some maps there that are... uh... Well, they kinda got the architecture right, I guess.

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TimeOfDeath said:

e1m1mem - doom e1m1 mapping from memory


The 4th level is probably the closest, some of them made me go "how"

also the intermission screen is just hilarious, all these hangar.

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Shanoa said:

The 4th level is probably the closest, some of them made me go "how"

also the intermission screen is just hilarious, all these hangar.

It's harder than it looks, especially if it's been a long time since the last time you say e1m1.

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I think we could get some pretty interesting results from, say, e1m2 or maybe even map08 of doom2. I like seeing all those different interpretations!

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I'd love to see map01 or 02 of doom 2, or maybe e1m8 of Doom 1.
These are simple enough you just cannot "not remember" them.

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