What are the do's and don'ts of custom maps in you opinion.

[MrGlide]

I'v started working on maps and I really want to know what your guy's thoughts are on what's not fun or fun. What would you like to see more of? What would you like to see less of? Thanks in advanced to all reply's.

[Breezeep]

Nothing much, but here are my two cents on this:

- Overdetailing / Ugly detailing is bad. It's the result of detailing instead of making the core layout. Cramped corridors filled with enemies is also bad.

+ Working on the core layout of the map is good. The map should have at least decent visuals and have good gameplay. Also, I'd suggest you make sure that the player has enough space to move around in to better dodge enemy projectiles.

[nxGangrel]

I've made a similar thread a while ago. You can check it out here.

But what I would follow are simple things, such as;
-Make the level fun and/or interesting
-Give the level lots of height variation
-Give the level "dynamic" lighting (even if it's minimal)
-Make it playable from a pistol start (there can be exceptions)
-Make rooms or halls spacious, and don't restrict player movement
-Give it style

-Don't make the gameplay tedious or repetitive.
-Don't make the level look bland and/or ugly

And in my honest opinion
-Don't make a slaughter map or put in 1000 monsters in a regular level.

[AD_79]

nxGangrel said:

And in my honest opinion
-Don't make a slaughter map or put in 1000 monsters in a regular level.

Well, when you are starting out, yes, this is definitely good advice to be given and to take into account. However, there's nothing necessarily wrong with a skilled mapper making a long/slaughter map, as they generally know what they're doing with that sort of thing (and if they don't, they learn quickly!) and are able to make it an enjoyable experience. This is absolutely personal preference, I'm well aware, but telling them never to make a slaughter map is, well, bad! In fact, more people should make this sort of map at least once to branch out more with their designs! Doing the same thing over and over can be boring and it's important to have variety, sometimes to the point of doing something completely different than what you're known for doing.

Regarding the topic: All I currently have to say on the matter is: Experiment! Find what works for you and what doesn't. Make something that you consider to be fun, even if others don't.

[baja blast rd.]

If you're just starting out, rule #1 is 'test your map thoroughly in the proper port'. Probably the quickest way to get on people's nerves is to advertise a map as being Vanilla or Boom when you've only tested it in ZDoom and it turns out to be broken in the usual Vanilla and Boom ports.

Related to that, test your maps and make sure they aren't annoying in certain ways. My personal pet peeves are details and decorations that you can get snagged on in the middle of a fight, distant chaingunners you can't hit that you have to soak damage from in order to progress, and unmarked and unpredictable monster warp-ins when the RL is one of the level's primary weapons.

nxGangrel said:

-Make rooms or halls spacious, and don't restrict player movement

And in my honest opinion
-Don't make a slaughter map or put in 1000 monsters in a regular level.

The projectile monsters just aren't that challenging in spacious areas at non-slaughter counts once you have a grasp on patterned strafing. There's a reason better players tend to gravitate towards 'slaughter' counts (or niche gameplay like claustrophobia, no health, reality, etc.).

[Pedro VC]

Overdetail is better than underdetail.

[yakfak]

DON'T mistake other people's preferences for proper mapping maxims - if you wanna do slaughter or puzzles or SS soldier ghosts or scripting or absurd texturing or backtracking then do it and do it in a way that you'll enjoy

[nxGangrel]

AD_79 said:

Well, when you are starting out, yes, this is definitely good advice to be given and to take into account. However, there's nothing necessarily wrong with a skilled mapper making a long/slaughter map, as they generally know what they're doing with that sort of thing (and if they don't, they learn quickly!) and are able to make it an enjoyable experience. This is absolutely personal preference, I'm well aware, but telling them never to make a slaughter map is, well, bad! In fact, more people should make this sort of map at least once to branch out more with their designs! Doing the same thing over and over can be boring and it's important to have variety, sometimes to the point of doing something completely different than what you're known for doing.

I agree. There's nothing wrong with a skilled mapper creating a slaughter map. But I wouldn't advise it at all for someone new, or even with a reasonable amount experience. But I wouldn't say you should never make a slaughter map.
I also meant in, what would be considered an "average" map, placing a (heavily)large amount of monsters isn't a good idea. It creates artificial difficulty, or on the other hand, isn't difficult and is just unnecessary.

rdwpa said:

The projectile monsters just aren't that challenging in spacious areas at non-slaughter counts once you have a grasp on patterned strafing. There's a reason better players tend to gravitate towards 'slaughter' counts (or niche gameplay like claustrophobia, no health, reality, etc.).

Yeah, that's true.

[dobu gabu maru]

There's a variety of different methods that work for all sorts of people, so it's generally encouraged to see what works/doesn't work for you (experiment, as AD said). However, the best piece of advice that I always follow comes in the form of one little question:

"What are you trying to do?"

This is an important question to ask because it can streamline your design process to be more efficient. For instance, if you're looking to put enemies in a hallway leading to another area, what kind of action are you looking to get out of it? Placing anything outside of a hitscanner or revenant will slow down gameplay, so if you want to put a noble there you have to get a little more creative, like having them pop out behind you when you get to the end of the hallway, or teleporting them in to sandwich the player when they arrive at the middle. Each enemy and weapon has a particular use, so placing them willy-nilly throughout a level is generally frowned upon—try to ruminate on what you're trying to achieve with particular rooms/encounters, and go from there. Sometimes a decent level layout will support almost anything, but for the most part there should be a reason to your design (like why you would use a Baron instead of a Hell Knight).

Besides that, here are a couple of specific tidbits I encourage newbies to follow:

- Even if you play primarily in Zdoom, always test in PrBoom for -cl2/-cl9 maps before uploading.

- If the player can find a safe position, don't force them to grind down mid-high tier enemies. What this means is that if I have a shotgun and an adjacent corner to shoot a manc/baron that's blocking my way, absolutely replace them with a hitscanner or imp. Some of us have been playing Doom for quite a while now, and using the shotgun on bulky enemies without the fear of repercussion is not fun at all.

- Nonlinearity is always appreciated. Not only does it improve gameplay, but it can make replaying/testing more lively. It's fine to make strictly linear maps, but if you're going in that direction there should usually be a good reason why you're doing so. Furthermore, if you are going to make nonlinear gameplay, provide the player with the necessary weapons on each path they take (for instance, don't make the rocket launcher mandatory to beat the level but only place it down one path).

- Try your best to encourage players not to door camp. Generally when they open the door, you want to lure them inside the new room with some health and ammo (or a weapon), and placing opposition right in their face is not a good means to do so. Hitscanners are also really dangerous enemies that a door provides easy cover from, so you want to be careful with where/how you place them (though if there is good cover inside the room, that'll usually work).

- Two shotgun shell boxes should never be placed next to each other unless you're gearing up for a big fight. 40 shells lasts a long time and you should make the player fight for their ammo instead of handing it to them like candy.

- Try to avoid a layout the looks like rooms leading to other rooms. Think about creative ways they can flow into each other and interconnect. Also, if you're going to force a player to backtrack, at least give them something new to fight/look at on the way back.

- Try to make the result of hitting switches immediately apparent. Do this by placing the object the switch affects ahead of it, or somewhere where the player can see/hear it nearby. Do not force the player to guess what wall it lowered somewhere else in the level.

- Lastly, lighting is just as important as textures. You may be excited to fill a map with dazzling textures, but if everything is at 192 brightness, it's going to look like a bland mess. Play around with light values as much as you can, as it greatly helps out the mood in some maps.

[NeedHealth]

Speaking of general map making Romeros list of do and don'ts is a great starting point.

if you are a new mapper, then I suggest you abide to this list and then as you get more comfortable you begin to make deviations. That's at least how I began making maps.

http://doomwiki.org/wiki/John_Romero#Design_rules

[Spectre01]

- Populate your map with enemies instead of making a Painkiller map in Doom where shit warps in when you do something. Don't make everything a trap, especially the kind that's likely to quickly kill the player without foreknowledge of the situation. Give the player freedom to escape and regroup at a more tactical position. Trapping Soul/Megaspheres is obnoxious as hell. "Yeah, let's give the player some health and then pop-in a bunch of shitgunners so they'll lose anything gained."

- Don't abuse Archvile, Revenant or Mancubus turrets. They're annoying and will make me rocket/chaingun snipe them before moving on with the map.

- If your map is "balanced for pistol start" then don't hide core weapons god knows where in the level and cause the player to die repeatedly trying to find something useful. If it's some BFG spam slaughtermap, don't make the BFG hidden behind a dozen switches/Archvile jumping or any other nonsense that requires watching a youtube speedrun to see how to start playing the fucking map. Make the gameplay hard, not finding the shit you need to play the map.

- Spamming Pain Elementals from various directions in arena-style maps. Just don't bro. It's neither fun nor challenging when they shit up the map with 1k lost souls that fly everywhere when you don't have tall actors on.

- Make sure your "yuge epic map bruh" doesn't run like dogshit because you went apeshit with the level geometry. i.e. Sunder

- And lastly, make sure it's compatible and thoroughly tested with both Brutal Doom and Demonsteele.

[molten_]

do: have fun making maps

don't: take things too seriously

DON'T mistake other people's preferences for proper mapping maxims - if you wanna do slaughter or puzzles or SS soldier ghosts or scripting or absurd texturing or backtracking then do it and do it in a way that you'll enjoy

this too

[an_mutt]

My main 'do' is play your map. I know a few people have said something along these lies already but I feel the need to stress the process of actually playing your maps, a whole bunch of times. Not "testing in specific source ports", or anything like that. (obviously you should also do that!) I mean actually just playing through your map in as many ways as you possibly can think of. I play through any map I make dozens upon dozens of times during their creation (barring speedmaps, obviously) and it's during these playthroughs that I really feel that most of the kinks in my maps are ironed out and where most of the coolest ideas I have come from.

yakfak said:

DON'T mistake other people's preferences for proper mapping maxims - if you wanna do slaughter or puzzles or SS soldier ghosts or scripting or absurd texturing or backtracking then do it and do it in a way that you'll enjoy

I want to elaborate on this and say that you should have some kind of reason behind everything you're doing. An actual substantial reason. You can absolutely do a lot of things that people are suggest you should not do, and get away with it, as long as your reasoning behind it is solid enough and has been properly thought out. If you did a thing in your map and your only explanation for it is "well, I felt like doing *thing*", then it's probably going to be bad.

dobu gabu maru said:

- Lastly, lighting is just as important as textures. You may be excited to fill a map with dazzling textures, but if everything is at 192 brightness, it's going to look like a bland mess. Play around with light values as much as you can, as it greatly helps out the mood in some maps.

Also this. The amount of atmosphere you can add to a map by giving some thought into light levels does wonders.

[Megamur]

Bear in mind, this is just my opinion, not map design gospel:

-Try to avoid instant-kill traps that aren't at least somewhat telegraphed to the player beforehand. Pressing a random switch that crushes the player or drops them into an inescapable pit is just going to make the player frustrated. There's no challenge in this sort of design and the player feels no reward for overcoming it. They just get angry that they had to redo a part because there was no way they could predict they'd be killed by doing a completely innocuous thing. Something as simple as putting crushed piles of gibs on the floor of a sector where the player can trigger a crushing ceiling would help, for example. Then the player gets the hint that they need to be extra-alert and react quickly to what's ahead. (Of course, that's not to say you can't have unpredictable traps. It's just better when the player has a chance of actually surviving them if triggered.)

-Doom was one of the first FPS games (or maybe the very first) to allow non-orthogonal walls. You should probably make the most of that in your levels. In other words, don't be afraid to draw walls that aren't straight north-to-south/east-to-west lines. While I'm not saying you need to draw zigzags everywhere, some slants and curves make architecture less sterile and homogeneous.

-Similar to the above, some asymmetry is appreciated, too. One of my biggest issues with one of the more popular megaWADs, Ultimate Simplicity, was how utterly symmetrical everything was: whatever was on one side of a room would be perfectly mirrored on the other side. It not only made ambushes more predictable (if a shotgunner is waiting to the left side, inevitably, I can expect another in the same position to the right), it also makes the design feel more artificial and redundant. These are zombies and demons--bloodthirsty creatures of chaos--and it just feels bizarre having them standing on their marks at perfectly-aligned, equal distances from each other like they're part of some elaborate choreographed dance.

-Blocking off areas with locked doors is all well and good, but it's also pretty cliche and a little dull. Consider mixing up the ways players access new areas, like having to climb over structures or jump through a window or find a hole in the ground that goes under an obstruction, or even something simpler like a switch that builds some stairs up to a previously-inaccessible area. A little bit of variety helps.

-On that note, a puzzle or two every once in a while wouldn't hurt. Not many people do puzzles in Doom anymore, and that always disappoints me. Think of Level 19: The Citadel from Doom II. First, you've got to find out how to get to that red building across the moat that surrounds the main building. Then, once aside, there's a room of multiple teleporters that lead you all over the map, with only some of them guiding you toward the keys you need. I find pleasure in having to stop and think and retrace my steps and experiment with switches and jumps that might lead to the next area. It gives the gameplay a little more depth. However, I know this style of design isn't very popular with the modern Doom community, so tread carefully.

-As mentioned by another poster, nonlinearity is nice. Think of E1M4 from the original Doom, which has various, significant alternate areas for the player to explore if they decide to, but also a more direct path for speedrunning types. There's no need to feel afraid about making some of the areas you create completely optional (as long as they can quickly get back to the main path from there). It enhances the sense of adventure of the player can wander off the beaten path and find some goodies that aren't essential to the level's progression.

-Try to avoid making it that picking up a key always triggers an immediate ambush. It's the oldest trick in the book. Even delaying it can help, like making it that picking up the key opens up a monster closet close to the door the player needs to backtrack to. They think they're just retreading an old area they've already cleared, they turn a corner, and WHAM, monsters out of nowhere. Of course, don't do that all the time either, or it, too, will become predictable. Basically what I'm trying to say is, mix up your ambushes!

I hope you'll consider some of these things when designing your levels. Good luck! :)

dobu gabu maru said:

- Try to make the result of hitting switches immediately apparent. Do this by placing the object the switch affects ahead of it, or somewhere where the player can see/hear it nearby. Do not force the player to guess what wall it lowered somewhere else in the level.

I don't really agree with this. Sometimes it's more engaging and mysterious to make things less obvious. I think it's more important to showcase that there are key locations that you need to access, but absolutely can't reach right now: a door that's too far off the ground to walk through; a barrier with a switch visible behind it; a key above a moat that you can't cross. Then when the player hits a switch with no immediate effect, then they'll think, "I should probably check that place/those places I couldn't get to before." It's when you get into the "this switch opens a random, innocuous wall that houses another switch that does something else" craziness that things get frustrating.

A few more pet peeves of mine in Doom level design:

-Try to keep items out of the way of the action and the primary route. It's always annoying when you're fighting something or are just trying to reach the next area and accidentally step onto an item you don't want yet. Got a narrow doorway with a medikit right in front of it? Move it somewhere else: I've got 98% health and I don't want to waste the whole health kit because I can't get around it.

-Clearly define your exit. Sometimes I want to go back for items I hadn't collected yet or look for more secrets, but I hit a seemingly normal switch or walk into a typical teleporter and the level abruptly ends. It can look corny, but that EXIT sign is useful for navigation.

-Similar to the above, I can't stand secrets that you can only access one time. Sometimes I want to save stuff for later and so I leave items in secret areas, and then I try to go back and get frustrated when I realize I only had the one chance to get them. Same thing with one-way paths in levels, where you're eventually cut off from returning to earlier parts of the map. It's fine if you want to bar the player from retreating, but consider making it temporary: perhaps after the enemies are all killed and the exit is available, you open a new pathway or offer a teleporter that grants return access to earlier parts of the level so the player can make sure they got everything.

Okay, I think I'm done now.

[Li'l devil]

AD_79 said:

All I currently have to say on the matter is: Experiment! Find what works for you and what doesn't. Make something that you consider to be fun, even if others don't.

Probably the best advice I can give.

On slaughtermaps topic: making a slaughtermap is not a bad idea. You just have to do a good balancing. For example, making a player face 20 cyberdemons at once is a bad idea, but making the player face 100 imps, assuming he's armed well enough, is ok. It's also ok, imo, to place 1000s of monsters in your map, if it's huge enough.

dobu gabu maru said:

Even if you play primarily in Zdoom, always test in PrBoom for -cl2/-cl9 maps before uploading.

What if he wants to use features specific to Zdoom?

Regarding difficulty: it's not ok if on HMP your map is really damn hard to beat. It's ok for UV, but not for HMP or lower. Also make sure on ITYTD you can beat your map in one try without saving from pistol start, otherwise it's not easy enough.
AND: very important thing: there always has to be difference in monster/item amount/placement between the difficulties.

One more tip: don't make inescapable toxic pits. If the player falls into one, there always should be a way out. If you make a toxic pit inescapable, then you are really the bad person.

[baja blast rd.]

ChekaAgent said:

Regarding difficulty: it's not ok if on HMP your map is really damn hard to beat. It's ok for UV, but not for HMP or lower. Also make sure on ITYTD you can beat your map in one try without saving from pistol start, otherwise it's not easy enough.
AND: very important thing: there always has to be difference in monster/item amount/placement between the difficulties.

99.99%+ of the time, if difficulty settings are actually implemented, monsters and items are going to be different from one skill to another. But technically it isn't really obligatory. For example it's possible to use skill-level-dependent voodoo dolls* in Boom-format to manipulate the map geometry in a different way in each skill level. Higher skills might have more damaging floors and fewer pillars for cover, higher skills might also enforce lock-ins more often, and lower skills might open up more maneuvering room. All with the same placement from 1/2 to 3 to 4/5. (Technically the dolls can also be used to make items available at different times and to deploy monsters in different ways, but that falls into the same category as 'placement' to me.)

I think it's fine for HMP to be really hard for a particular player if UV is 'basically impossible' for them. Of course those difficulties are subjective, and one particular player might find skills 1-5 of a wad all unbeatably tough; a more skilled player might think the same only of everything above HMP, noticing a meaningful gap between HMP and UV; and a yet more skilled player might find even UV not too harsh. I do agree with being able to beat one's own ITYTD without much of a challenge, though!



*If anyone actually wants to try this (and to preempt nitpicks telling me things I already know :-P), keep in mind that the player starts can't be set to different skills. What you can do is use blocking decorations to make certain voodoo doll scrollers functional/nonfunctional depending on the skill level.

[40oz]

Dont think too hard. Sometimes its the little things that are fun, like getting two good super shotgun shots on a cacodemon or berserk punching revenants, or blowing up a bunch of hell knights with a rocket launcher. Just think specifically about things you like doing in doom and design a map where the object is to only do those things.

Also think about things you don't like and make sure they cant happen in your map. For me, I dont like:

-running out of ammo
-not having space to move
-only having one path to follow
-killing too many monsters (sometimes having a lot of areas with no monsters in it makes the areas that do more exciting)

Things I do like:

-making use out of all my weapons
-platform jumping
-shortcuts
-finding secrets
-traps attached to meaningful objectives

Theres a lot of fun stuff to do in Doom and not a whole lot that isn't fun, which is why we've all been playing the same game for so long. So just do what you like to do and usually we will have fun too.

[purist]

If you're just starting out in mapping your objective at this time is not to make a community wowing cacoward winner on your first attempt but to have fun, create something you're proud of and basically enjoy the process so that you have the will to continue mapping where you will eventually learn what works well and what doesn't as you develop your own style.

As for practical advice:

1. Play lots of Doom until you can articulate what you do and don't like.
2. Examine existing levels that have traits you enjoy to work out how they are made.
3. Make levels of your own exhibiting these traits.

[Hege]

Honestly, a lot of do's and don'ts in map making in doom tend to change between opinions, personal aims, trends in mapping, audience, format...

There's isn't really that big static list of do's and dont's.
However, if you ask me, some global ones that are based on pure nuisance and compatibility;


Don't;

-Inescapable acid/death pits that trap players.
Why?
A lot of the time, there are just, purely frustrating. Having to wait out for your death kills the flow and some gameplay mods also give players items to slow down the acid damage/negate it.
If you dont want player to enter a pit, its better to either block it..
..Or you can put a teleport/lift to help player out of it instead, depends on your map really.
But don't force em to be stuck to die, it's boring.
You can also use an insta death teleport for pits like these, but those are also very annoying if they aren't obvious.


-Unnecessary long waits of nothing happening
If you make a long lift, or sequence, make something happen during it. Waiting around for a lift to come down can be really, really boring if it starts to take AGES to happen. If there's no real reason for a sequence that takes a while, then consider using alternatives that speed the process up like teleporters or faster speeds for the sectors.
If you do you make a long sequence that has lot of action, and interesting things happening during it, make sure the player doesn't have to redo it if they have to go that way again. A cool machine that does a lot to bring a lift down is cool the first time, but second time, you could just open a teleporter instead if it takes minutes to come down.


Some do's that increase the enjoyment of maps
Do;

-Mark the exit/make it obvious
Use the exit tag to make a small sign if the exit isn't obvious so players can anticipate when to exit. It makes it more fun for the player so it isn't full surprise (oh that teleporter wasnt tele put the exit? oh man I missed a secret :( )
Making it obvious can also work, such as if the map is all corrupted and shit and suddenly, large intimidating hole in the ground going to deepest abyss and you have to jump in?
A large portal that is nothing alike in the map so far?
Helipad/vehicle?

-In general, give some hints with the environment, item, monster placement.
Players aren't mind readers, so they need hints to expect what things in maps bring to them, what does what, what might happen.
It doesn't need to be obvious, and you shouldn't have to hold players hand, but make it subtle enough, learn some common indications people have used over time (like plasma + 2 bigcells indicating fights gonna happen, lights indicating there's something going in a room cause its brighter than others, etc)
Leave the even more subtle things for secrets, player should be able to progress a map if its not all out puzzle without having to take ages to figure out what that switch did.


In general, just think and plan accordingly, try think of building the map like, if you weren't yourself when play testing it, try look at your map from another persons eyes that doesnt have the building tools if it still is fun then. Plan and think.
But most importantly, have fun with it. Some advice might sound like serious business/lot of work, but don't be intimidated.

[BrainMuncher]

My tip is to keep your first few maps small. Really small. If you start on a large map you will probably find yourself running out of ways to make it interesting, or losing motivation/inspiration and never finishing it. With small maps you will actually finish them and will be able to move on to your next idea, so you won't get bored as easily.

Force yourself to make a map that is only 3-5 main rooms. Doom 2 MAP01 is basically only 3 rooms: the entry room, the room with the zombies on platforms, and the imp room. The rest is basically window dressing for those three rooms, and a corridor to connect them. MAP03 is basically the entry room, the big outdoors room, and the pinky room, with window dressing.

If you stick to just a handful of rooms you will find that in order to make it so that your map isn't over in five seconds, you are forced to find ways to make the rooms you have actually interesting, rather than just plopping down a few monsters and adding more rooms.

I'm much more likely to play an episode of 10 short, focused maps than one huge, confusing, unrefined map.

Once you feel you're getting the hang of it then you can attempt a medium sized map. You may have to re-hash a lot of the ideas from the smaller maps in order to have enough content to fill the medium map. This is good because it is a chance to refine your earlier ideas with everything you've learned up to this point.

Also don't try to make your first few maps look too pretty. You will realise later that it was wasted effort. Just churn out simple maps with basic detailing at first and work your way up from there. It's easy to get caught up in perfectly aligning textures and agonising over small visual details that the player will probably hurtle past at 80kph. The prettiness will come naturally once you have more experience.

[Deadwing]

[Suitepee]

-No invisible enemies that only appear when they attack.
-No annoying placement of hitscan-based enemies, Barons or Revenants.
-Gameplay first, detailing second. I've seen my fair share of maps that look nice but don't play nice.
-Symmetry is predictable; avoid as much as possible.
-Don't use Icon of Sin. Ever. Custom boss enemies are much more fun.
-Try to use different music aside from the standard Doom 2 soundtrack.
-Just because YOU can do speedrunning tricks, doesn't mean everyone else can. Don't add speedrunning-type stuff UNLESS it's for secrets, not for mandatory map progression.
-Have fun mapping!

[Khaoscythe]

No extremely absurd (and mandatory) platforming shenanigans... I'm looking at you Sunder Map 11.

I'd also recommend reading through Huy Pham's DVII notes, there's a ton of useful (and logical) do's and don'ts in there you could refer to.

[Deleted_Account]

I find that I'm very unsure of my work and always end up deleting it and starting all over again. I'm not sure if that's a proper texture to use, or if there's too many 90 degree angles and not enough curves and so on. I'm my own worst enemy.

[nxGangrel]

Piper Maru said:

I find that I'm very unsure of my work and always end up deleting it and starting all over again. I'm not sure if that's a proper texture to use, or if there's too many 90 degree angles and not enough curves and so on. I'm my own worst enemy.

Why not embrace it?

[MrGlide]

@ nxGangrel- I agree with everything except the slaughter maps part (I'll make some eventually because I really do enjoy them.) and restricting player movement, I wouldn't want any hallways less then 128 wide, but restricting movement in an area is a good way to challange the player with out just dumping a crapload of monsters on them.

nxGangrel- "placing a (heavily)large amount of monsters isn't a good idea. It creates artificial difficulty, or on the other hand, isn't difficult and is just unnecessary."

Me- I disagree, I don't think this is something that should be seen often but the Imp mob fight on sunder(python) is a good example of how this can work well.

@dobu gabu maru- "What are you trying to do?" this is awsome advice, along with everything else you've said, thank you.

@NeedHealth I don't think I'll ever deviate from this list.

rileymartin - "Make sure your "yuge epic map bruh" doesn't run like dogshit because you went apeshit with the level geometry. i.e. Sunder"

Me - sunder runs fine on my computer, I'll do as I please.

rileymartin - And lastly, make sure it's compatible and thoroughly tested with both Brutal Doom and Demonsteele.

me - no offense but Mapping for vanilla and brutal at the same time doesn't always work out well, vanilla or gzdoom will take precedence in a mapping conflict.

Megamur- "Try to avoid instant-kill traps"

Unless it's a horror themed wad I will never do anything instant death, I find it to be cheap and unfun. PLayers will always have a chance in my maps if they've played well till that point.

Megamur- "On that note, a puzzle or two every once in a while wouldn't hurt."
Me - I agree, but I will mostlikey only use these and mazes to hide secrets and loot. I agree with everything else.

ChekaAgent- "Also make sure on ITYTD you can beat your map in one try without saving from pistol start, otherwise it's not easy enough." I'll be using my 7 year old son to play test on that difficulty, hmp will prolly end up like doom 1's UV, and UV will be for elite players. Idon't know, we'll see.

40oz - "don't like running out of ammo"
me- to absolute zero? I would agree, But I think ammo restriction is a good way to create dynamic gameplay with choices the player makes that can benefit them or punish them a little bit if the made a poor decision. to be exact I'm talking about rockets and cell's.

@Purist, I'm doing all of this already, And agree heavily with it.

@Deadwing me: Ya I suggest grid paper, I'v 13 maps designed on grid paper currently.

@Khaoscythe- I tried to google it, think I'v read it before but can't seem to find Huy Pham's again, can some one throw me a link?

Thank you everyone.

[vadrig4r]

Lots of great mappers in here, thread's well worth a bookmark.

[Khaoscythe]

MrGlide said:

@Khaoscythe- I tried to google it, think I'v read it before but can't seem to find Huy Pham's again, can some one throw me a link?

Sure thing: https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/d-f/dvii-1i

It's a long ass text file (along with the obvious WAD file and such), but you'll stumble upon the area(s) of interest eventually.

[Quineotio]

I think the only hard do is to make your level worth playing, either because it's fun, beautiful, enlightening, intense, scary, or whatever. The only hard don't is don't create negative feelings in the player, whether that be boredom, frustration, irritation etc. You can always do something well enough to make it memorable and interesting. You can always do something badly enough to make it unfun. You have to use your own judgement, and try to be empathetic towards the player, while also making sure that you yourself are having fun playing your level.

For example, the monsters in a level should all be meaningful. You can have lots of them if you can make it work, or few of them if you can make it work. It's about which monsters you use, and when, and how you place them, how they interact with the space you fight them in, how much ammo and which weapons the player has to use against them etc.

I think that rather than concentrate on dos and don'ts, it might be more helpful when you're making a level to ask yourself some of the following questions:

Is this fun?
Has this been done a million times before?
Is this confusing?
What will the player be feeling here?
Is this fair?
Will the player notice this?
Is there a more interesting way I could do this?
Why am I making the player do this?
Is this getting repetitive?

I also find that it helps to just run around my level with the monsters off to feel what it's like to move around. If there are areas that don't feel good, or the flow feels off, or there are areas that are annoying to get to, you'll notice. You will also tend to notice bugs and misplaced textures you might otherwise miss. I find this is a good way to think about new ideas, because I'm in the mental space of the level.

What I'd like to see more of in doom mapping is really trying new things. Most of the screenshots that people post of new levels look exactly like the same old doom levels people have been making for over 20 years. There are so many interesting things you can do with modern tools and scripting. I think that if you're going to be a stand out mapper you need to go beyond what is commonly done and put a bit of effort in to make something truly unique.

[pcorf]

When creating Doomed Space Wars these were my design goals.

- Huge, detailed maps.
- Non slaughter map gameplay.
- Realism.
- Lots of height variation.
- 3D floors since it was for Zdoom.
- Try to make it so the player usually does not need to back track a long long way.
- Tons of Secrets. Keep as many secrets as unmarked in some way, always a hint even the slightest of hint.
- All maps beatable from a pistol start.
- At least 3 secret levels.
- Top secret easter eggs.
- Tight ammo balance if no secrets found, but not impossible to run out of ammo.
- If in trouble, there is always a secret nearby.
- Avoid creating mirror image symmetrical maps. (WOS MAP06 for example, I have learnt) But some rooms are symmetrical, especially boss rooms.
- No floors / doors that take forever to lower / open as the player fights teleporting enemies in a small space.
- For many years I wanted to create an episode of Star Wars-inspired maps, but with Doom enemies, weapons and gameplay. I was originally going to make a Boom episode, the first 3 or 4 maps were originally Boom but converted to Zdoom and modified heavily. I also wanted to create an original soundtrack.