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dobu gabu maru

The DWmegawad Club plays: Eternal Doom

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Yep, you can tell that a lot of love and effort has been put in this mod. Pretty much a precursor to Alien Vendetta in that sense, looking at how there's so many adventures in that megawad (like Kim Malde's maps).

I also decided what the heck, I'll leave here a complete list of maps by the authors that were released on idgames, including the ones that a lot of us know of already.

Alex Mayberry
- Eternal Doom (Map01, 06) 14 Nov 1997
- Perdition's Gate (Not to be confused with the Perdition's Gate by Wraith Corporation!) 11 Jun 2003
- Templ2_0.wad 27 Jul 2003
- Shadow.wad 20 Apr 2005
- Starship.wad 19 Apr 2011

Adam Landefeld
- Eternal Doom (Map02, 15, 16, 21) 14 Nov 1997
- Eternal Deathmatch (Map02, 05, 07, 12, 15, 17) 6 Jun 1998
- Scorched Hell (Hexen map) 12 Nov 2005

Dietmar "Dia" Westerteicher
- Eternal Doom (Map03, 08, 13, 14, 17, 23, Credits) 14 Nov 1997
- INVICITY (version0.9 - strictly for testing) 10 Apr 2004

Sverre "Soundblock" Kvernmo
- Master Levels For Doom 2 (blacktwr.wad, bloodsea.wad, mephisto.wad, teeth.wad) 8 Aug 1995
- Bloodflood 8 Nov 1995
- We who are About to Die 8 Nov 1995
- Derelict station 8 Nov 1995
- Eye of the Storm 8 Nov 1995
- The Watchtower 8 Nov 1995
- Temple of Death 8 Nov 1995
- The Image of Evil 8 Nov 1995
- Eternal Doom (Map04, 05, 12) 14 Nov 1997
- Plasmaplant 13 Aug 2015

Paul Schmitz
- Welcome to Hell 20 Jun 1996
- The Artifact for DOOM II 2 July 1996
- Eternal Doom (Map07, 28) 14 Nov 1997
- Ambush (The Return) 9 Oct 1999
- The Artifact (The Return) 9 Oct 1999
- River Dead (The Return) 9 Oct 1999
- TeamTNT Doom2000 Hub 1 (Map05, Travel tubes) 31 Dec 1999
- 10 Sectors (Map11) 26 Nov 2000
- Daedalus: Alien Defense (Map05, Travel tubes) 10 Dec 2003
- The Artifact Version 2.1 (Doom 1 version) 27 Sep 2004

Chris Couleur
- Eternal Doom (Map09, 11, 19, 22, 24, 29) 14 Nov 1997
- Eternal Deathmatch (Map01, 03, 04, 06, 08, 09, 11, 13, 14, 16, 18, 19) 6 Jun 1998
- Eternal DOOM IV: Return from Oblivion (Map11, 12, 13) 11 Jan 2008

Kathy/David Bruni
- Eternal Doom (Map10) 14 Nov 1997
- The Hunger 27 Dec 2002
- The Omen 28 Dec 2002
- Dave 1.WAD (David Bruni only) 12 Jan 2005
- Dave.WAD (David Bruni only) 12 Jan 2005
- KAT.WAD 20 May 2005
- DMTEXAS1.WAD (David Bruni only) 16 Jun 2005
- DMZOO.WAD (David Bruni only) 16 Jun 2005
- The Texas Tornado Deathmatch Wad 17 Jun 2005

Dave Brachman
- Eternal Doom (Map18, 27) 14 Nov 1997
- Zandor2 17 Oct 1998

Bob "Odessa" Evans
- Eternal Doom (Map20, 30) 14 Nov 1997
- Odessa Level 14 v2.1 ("Savage Morals") 8 May 1998
- ODESSA 7 ("6 Keys of the Asmod Monks") 1 Feb 2014
- ODESSA12 ("Chambers") 1 Feb 2014
- ODESSA 3 ("Fade to Gray") 1 Feb 2014
- ODESSA 6 ("Kastle Baron") 1 Feb 2014
- ODESSA 13 (Anaxis Courtyard) 1 Feb 2014
- ODESSA 11 ("Sojourn") 1 Feb 2014
- ODESSA 9 (Landing Zone) 1 Feb 2014
- ODESSA 1 ("Odessa_X" No name actually) 1 Feb 2014
- ODESSA 2 ("Oasis") 1 Feb 2014

Jim Flynn
- Oracle... (w/ Scott Harper) 14 Apr 1995
- Master Levels For Doom 2 (Titan Manor, Trapped on Titan) 8 Aug 1995
- Eternal Doom (Map25, 26, 31, Cybersweeper) 14 Nov 1997
- Boom Edit Example Wad (demonstration map of Boom's effects) 27 May 1998
- The Titan Anomaly 21 Oct 2000
- Mines of Titan v1.1 10 Jul 2003
- The Enigma Episode v2.0 6 Oct 2003
- Doom Gulch 16 Dec 2003
- Trouble on Titan 1 Mar 2004
- The Farside of Titan 1 Mar 2004
- The Interdiction Zone 1 Mar 2004
- Peano 23 Nov 2004
- The Tower 29 Nov 2004
- Wack 29 Nov 2004
- Citadel 1 Feb 2005
- Mt. Doom 6 Feb 2005
- Rings 8 Feb 2005
- Up and Down 8 Feb 2005
- The Wheel 8 Feb 2005
- Surrounded! 8 Feb 2005

Matt Bollier
- Eternal Doom (Map32) 14 Nov 1997
- Perdition's Maw 27 Jul 2003
- Fear II - The Spawn 20 Apr 2005
- The Raven 5 Apr 2006
- Downtown v1.0 5 Apr 2006

Some are earlier versions of their works (in the case of Paul Schmitz's Doom 1 version of The Artifact and Jim Flynn's maps that became The Enigma Episode), but to anyone curious enough to check them out, enjoy.

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Pretty nice list!

About Flynn I'd add to this that Titan Manor and Trapped on Titan in the Master Levels are a good way to gauge the waters and see if Doom puzzles are for you. For people who feel overwhelmed by the list: most Flynn entries that haven't "Titan" in the title or aren't Interdiction Zone and Oracle can be found in Enigma (as T-Rex says).

I'd say those appear to be the essential Flynn works if you feel like a fan:

  • Interdiction Zone
  • Oracle
  • Enigma Episode
  • Titan Manor (ML)
  • Trapped on Titan (ML)
  • Mines of Titan
  • Titan Anomaly
  • Farside of Titan
  • Trouble on Titan
I didn't play all of them but really enjoyed Trapped on Titan and Mines of Titan in particular. This is a completely different paradigm than what I usually play (i.e. Speed of Doom, Kama Sutra, Vanguard and the likes) and I must say it grew on me after a while.

Years ago I would just throw my keyboard across the room.

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Kira said:

most Flynn entries that haven't "Titan" in the title or aren't Interdiction Zone and Oracle can be found in Enigma.

Here's a quick rundown of the maps that made up Enigma.

Citadel - Enigma Map09
Doom Gulch - Enigma Map04
Mt. Doom - Enigma Map01
Peano - Enigma Map06
Rings - Enigma Map02
The Tower - Enigma Map08
Up and Down - Enigma Map03
Wack - Enigma Map07
The Wheel - Enigma Map05

Surrounded! was the only map that didn't make it as it was just a simple arena map where you fight a cyberdemon with a plasma gun. Nevertheless, it's kinda fun and worth a shot if you're a Jim Flynn aficionado, as I am. With the rest of the maps listed here, however, best to just stick with The Enigma Episode, unless you really want to see their early stages. Also check out the Boom Edit map if you just want a nice, leisurely romp with his architecture.

Interestingly enough, much like how Bob Evans revealed that there were Odessa 4, 5, 8, and 10 that got scrapped, a few authors had one or more maps that are yet to be found and released on idgames, specifically by Alex Mayberry, Dave Brachman, and even Matt Bollier.

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MAP27 - “Paldorian” by Dave Brachman

same style as "stands", that is filling boxes with rectangular corridors and stairs, with larger monsters like barons stuck in them, which makes gameplay slow in places if you don't save a v-sphere for punching through them (i thought it would be smart to use it for getting the blue key in the acid) begins with an empty hall and some demons and continues with a medieval / techno mix in a rather drab visual style, lots of brown, especially that ugly dark brown plastering, which should have been combined with something brighter.



MAP28 - “Timeslip” by Paul Schmitz

beautiful map, a kind of techno cathedral. there's no high enemy count but several mid to high hp monsters, and the narrow hallways with supports at every corner are good at slowing down the player. deactivating force fields via switches was clear, but i got stuck here until i found that some railings can be climbed over. not really large map compared to some of ED's castles, but easy to get lost with all the detailed convoluted passages.



MAP29 - “Dominion” by Christopher Couleur

another castle by this mapper, and i guess it's the biggest one... in fact so big that monsters get lost ot bunch up behind doors, and even doomguy needs some time to cross the whole edifice... which looks less elaborate than couleur's other castles, a mesh of big flat rooms joined by broad passages without a clear design, rather as if he kept adding rooms. not bad but a bit monotonuous for my taste, his other castles were better.



MAP30 - “Excalibur” by Bob Evans

so iirc this monstrosity was added in the final version of ED. ok it's visually a fine castle, very elaborate... but you have to find all 6 keys, and some of them are really hidden. i looked a lot at the map, saved frequently simply because i didn't feel like doing all from scratch if i died or got stuck somewhere, but still didn't have the patience for it, being already playing JCP and bloodstain, so i gave up and watched ToD's demo to get a clue. well, memoriozing this map is a feat in itself.



overall, i think that most posters here agree that ED is better than it's often said to be, mostly by players frustrated by its puzzles. as a megawad built around the concept of doom maps as puzzles, it does its job really well, it just the player's taste whether he likes this or not. furthermore, it has aged well, mostly, with many maps looking good to this day, and the medieval / techno anachronisms giving it a distinct appearance. also, it's always nice to see developers join and shed some light, especially in the case of maps made almost 20 years ago (thanks sverre). i'm surprised how positive feedback has been, after dobu's april joke ;)



thanks T-rex for that list, nice work

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MAP22: The Seeker
82% kills, 3/5 secrets

Had this pegged as a Couleur map as soon as I saw the opening shot, he really likes the brown/grey brick with blue water texture set here. Like MAP09, it's a largely oversized, under-populated castle map, where for the first third of the adventure you're unlikely to ever be fighting more than one enemy at a time given how they're dotted around the large corridors. I must say, given the size of the corridors and the mostly-linear path, I blazed through this one pretty aggressively. Outside, things amp up a bit, with more medium-sized enemies like cacos, nobles, revenants and AVs. It eventually culminates in something that feels like the offspring of MAP09's ending and MAP11's ending - a huge boxy arena with hallway around the outside, except this one has a middle stuffed with cyberdemons. That many monsters will always pose a bit of a threat, but I still found it a bit too large and ended up leaving most of it in the dust.

Not a bad map, but didn't quite grab me... maybe because it just felt like a another (better) version of what we've already seen in MAP09 and 11.

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Map 30 -- Excalibur - 110% Kills / 100% Secrets
This is perhaps the most infamous map in Eternal Doom, and in many ways one of its most defining. It embodies essentially all of the characteristics and idiosyncrasies that have earned the greater mapset its reputation, from its obscure puzzle-laden map progression to the distantly underpopulated feel of its grandiose, airy architecture, and of course its sombre King & Knight medieval theme, with a tasteful martial reprise of the musical theme from "Timeslip" to match the sort of grim, dogged determination that most players will need if they are to unravel its many mysteries. The setting is a dusty old keep just off a nameless coast, quite like the occult cathedral from "Darkdome" in that respect, though the tall chunky architecture and propensity for loooooooong perambulating corridors is distinctly Evans' own. Hellspawn aside, there is a vague sense that there was once a solemn sanctity to the place, housing as it does the seaside grave of a hero of legend; the northernmost sanctum, once a resting place for a certain holy relic of similar renown, is now home to the inevitable gateway direct to Hell. The only way to prevent mankind from being erased from the pages of Earth's history is to make your way past the tests of wisdom and insight guarding the way to the final portal, no small feat for mere mortals like us.

In play terms, the pacing and the role of action in the map are very similar to what we saw in "Silures" earlier on, despite the much more spacious surroundings here. Monsters are lightly spread considering the size of the place, but they are nearly all of the mid-tier class or higher; there is one former sergeant who exists solely to be killed for his weapon, and a handful of pinkies and imps in a couple of places, but everyone else is much beefier or much deadlier (or both), perhaps intended to shore up the level's sense of being a 'bossmap' as a counter to its decidedly nonstandard progression for conventional slot standards. While the enemies are often easy to evade in practical terms, actually killing them is another matter, and any damage you take quickly becomes difficult to repair unless you can find some of the (flagged) secrets--most top-ups in this level come in the form of hidden megasphere pickups, which seem palpably overpowered until you realize you can't figure out the secret to get the next one when you need it. Interestingly enough, you're given the rocket launcher as your primary weapon right at the outset, but it's easier than it may initially seem to exhaust all of its ammo early on, which can lead to meaty roadblocks in certain passages. Thus, there's an implicit pressure to either not clean the main spaces thoroughly (or you could do it slowly and laboriously with a heavy infighting approach, I suppose) to afford yourself a resource buffer for further free exploration, or you could spend what you have to secure a 'base of operations' and risk locking yourself into a potentially much more limited itinerary as determined by provisions, which in a map like this can ultimately be more damning.

This is the role that combat plays here, generally--its real threat is that it can leave you with an unquiet mind and distract you from the task of solving the keep's many riddles, only occasionally representing a more immediate obstacle to progression where monsters act as physical roadblocks in front of an objective, ala the cyberdemon jealously coveting his prized yellow skull in the northwest tower. Even in these latter cases, the real solution is generally exploration rather than martial skill (e.g. come back and nuke the cyberdemon after you've found the BFG in a completely different part of the castle), which is a bit of a double-edged sword, really; on the one hand this plan serves the map's highly non-linear/exploration-based nature, but on the other it makes moment-to-moment play extremely stressful and aggravating for players going in blind or otherwise struggling with the aforesaid exploration. I'll not mince words; the combat itself is not very rewarding in this map, all told, as the skewed monster/space ratio undercuts its potentially more flavorful bits (such as having an arch-vile tied to each keyplate switch teleport into the main hub at various points), and most of the HP-as-obstacle setups only function as "doors with health" in a very literal sense, where the key is simply to have enough ammo at a given time--no tactical ingenuity required. Even the final IoS-type battle is strangely simple/easy, though I suppose many players will probably consider this a great boon after what all that's required to get to that point.

So, yes, obviously it's the puzzles that are the real point of the map, and as per usual I don't want to speak about them at length, because, if you've been following along and have any interest in experiencing the set for yourself, it will be Good For You (TM) not to have them spoiled. Despite all of the tearstained rage and keyboard/monitor endangerment some of Bob's trollish quizmastering has surely been responsible for over the years, I must take my usual (perhaps tiresome) advocacy tack and point out that literally every puzzle and secret here has some kind of definite hint or clue as to its nature; you've likely heard horror stories about mandatory wall-humping, for instance, but everything that you need to hump is visually telegraphed in some way, as long as you're keen-eyed and attentive. I will admit that the working of the red key setup is pretty funky, though, I guess--you can see it clearly, and what you need to do to get it is exceedingly simple and easy, but makes little consistent or intuitive sense by the standards of how traversal normally works in Doom. On that note, one thing I absolutely will fondly attribute to this map is that it really served to broaden my own horizons about how to go about searching for hidden stuff back when I first played it all those years ago--Ribbiks mentioned the joy of climbing around on geometry and feeling like you might be breaking progression only to find your outside-the-box thinking was in fact as the author intended, and for me this experience was revelatory, and has served me very well in the years since. Stuff like this also helps the setting feel like a deeper place, rather than a set of stages or backdrops, which generally serves most kinds of map well, particularly those where the raw action element is on the dry side, as it is here.

Is this level effective as a map 30? I think so....it's a very natural culmination of and conclusion to everything this WAD has been about. I would've liked a grander final battle myself, of course, but nevertheless the sense of accomplishment the first time you clear it is quite palpable, moreso than with most IoS-based map 30s, which IMO generally serve as cinematic/cathartic rituals rather than as substantive gameplay pieces.

**********

I enjoyed revisiting this WAD after so many years, and I'm proud of all of you who stuck with it (and are still sticking with it) in spite of (or perhaps because of?) how far outside of currently popular conventions its approach to level design falls. I would agree with the sentiment a number of others have expressed that, from a craft/aesthetic standpoint, this set still holds up rather well today, a testament to the level of care that went into its construction (I would say that the poor levels here are poor by the standards of any era, whereas in sets like Hell Revealed there's more of an intuitive discourse about aging/not aging well). Along with this aesthetic stateliness and its unashamed tendency towards offering lots of big meaty levels, I feel that the exploratory aspect of the mapset, which when laser-focused tends to result in quirky puzzles, is its true and best legacy for PWADs moving forwards. The action element, by contrast, is probably its weakest point; pound for pound it comes off as considerably less violent and less developed than many other classics of a similar vintage (although I personally find the leisurely stuff here to be quite a bit more likeable than a lot of what's in Requiem, for example). Of course, this is an issue that the many talented PWAD authors of today should have little trouble in addressing, and I would be nothing but pleased to see more authors take inspiration from the epic (if occasionally ponderous) leanings of what is found herein. ;)

My top 5 maps in Eternal Doom, in no particular order:

Map 19 --Warheros
Map 31 -- Monster Mansion
Map 12 -- Darkdome
Map 07 -- The Abbey
Map 22 -- The Seeker

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MAP23: Time Gate II
100% kills, 3/3 secrets

Unlike MAP05, this one starts off in the same medieval time-period we've been in, but with UAC tech scattered about. And this one requires jumping through different time periods - thankfully going to 1,000,000 BC isn't just auto-death this time! It's a fun theme, and helps keep things interesting, even though it certainly lacks the special gimmicks and design bits of other maps - I'd say Westerteicher is probably the weakest author in Eternal Doom, but this map is probably his best. The 5000 AD portion is a bit boxy and 64-wide-hallway-y for my tastes, but it's a small portion of the proceedings. Also, big LOL @ "A few minutes in Caco Heaven" (AKA SteveD's wet dream). More questionable is why 2500 AD (next map) looks so much like 1250 AD...

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Regrettably I was only only able to play the first map and the very beginning of the second, as bizarre lag issues that popped up heralded the first signs my HDD was about to die, and die it did. Ah well, I'll just play it on a new gaming computer, whatever year that might be.

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Map 30 retrospective:

This is another of those maps which calls for a large time investment to experience and/or complete. There are things that I admire about it as well as a number of things I dislike.

+ Difficulty settings: The difference here is very noticeable. 59 monsters on easy settings: the player is most likely to give up from navigating the fortress. On UV, resource management becomes a factor, perhaps more so than combat itself.
+ Some clever progression including climbing over level geometry and switches that one needs to sharp to spot yet seem fair (by Eternal Doom standards anyways)
+ No tricks required yet those with SR50 skills can open up a few shortcuts. There is one switch that is reachable from below that can cut out a long trek too.
+ Tricks employed to require all six keys in vanilla.
+ There's a sense of mystery about the place. It's not clear at first what the keys are even used for when first solving the riddle to reach one and the setup is one of the better examples of wordless storytelling out there.

- Tends to get tedious and unfriendly to navigate. Fall off a ledge in the wrong place (or get scared off by a close range ambush) or take a side path and be unable to return and it can take minutes to retrace one's steps (which is long by Doom standards). The path to the portal to the end without movement tricks is especially long and convulted and it's necessary to cross it at least twice to complete.
- Ammo placed right on the required path leading to wasted resources in a map where resource management is already a factor. It's mostly just my pet peeve but only gaining 20 cells from a pack and running dry later feels like a sucker punch.
- Necessary switches hidden behind false walls. Never would have found those without looking up outside help.
- Backpack is only available right at the end when the map is pretty much over. So why bother? I'm guessing the resource management is intentional and that's OK but when backtracking is required to top off ammo reserves in a map which is inconvenient to navigate already, might as well not include one at all.

Even though I was unable to solve this without looking up outside sources, it felt rewarding when I uncovered a new passage or solved a puzzle that had stumped me. So favorable with reservation is how I choose to see the map. I noticed that the health and armor is supplied only by the megaspheres throughout with a berserk being the only other source of either which was interesting.

Credits map: Wonder how long the music track for this map really is since one is likely to be done before it loops. Just found out that is one is at the right height, one can shoot the Romero head at the end. I believed the death exit was the only way to end the map before. Also, did anyone catch what its death phrase is; it appears to have changed?

Wow, I enjoyed revisiting Eternal Doom more than I thought I would at the beginning of the month.

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MAP24: Rainbow Bridge
80% kills, 1/3 secrets

Another Couleur map, and the largest one yet. Despite supposedly being in 2500 AD it sure looks a lot to me like 1250 AD, except with maybe a few more fluorescent lights here and there. Like MAP19, it does a good job of making things feel non-linear, with lots of windows, staircases, height jumps and such, but in the end, it pretty much is a A->B path alone. It's also [i]extremely[i] boxy which was a bit of a turnoff, especially when paired with Couleur's typical monster placement style.

In the end, it's just pretty boring to play... lots of Doom 1 fireball enemies (imps/cacos/nobles) and some revenant snipers thrown in, which is something that makes the proceedings feel like janitorial work instead of combat. I never really felt like I was in any danger except when I finally made my way to the eastern section (another Couleur-style box-within-a-box arena ending, though this one does connect more to the rest of the map) and started ignoring monsters in the overly-large hallways, which let them track me down to the other side of the map. Actually dragged the cyber all the way to the red key, along with a bunch of cacos, heh. Make your own fun, I suppose.

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You're most welcome Pirx and dobu. After revisiting Eternal Doom, I have developed an appreciation and admiration for adventure-style maps.

Glad to see you're still sitting around, Ragnor, though I'm sorry to hear about yout HDD. Looking back at your comment on Revilution and Convilution, I always wondered what would it have been like if Jim Flynn and Sverre Kvernmo made Evilution maps since they certainly have that distinctive TNT style that are also shared with authors like Paul Schmitz and Bob Evans.

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this being said, and as i don't open a new thread for it... it's sad that ED IV will probably remain unfinished.

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Pirx said:

this being said, and as i don't open a new thread for it... it's sad that ED IV will probably remain unfinished.

Yeah, shame really. Rex Claussen is busy with other projects as we speak, Bob Evans came back just to bring us the rest of the missing Odessa maps, Chris Couleur made a comment in the same thread and that's about it, Soundblock once said he wasn't interested in doing more Eternal Doom maps (would have been awesome if he reconsidered), goodness knows where Paul Schmitz, Dia, Adam Landefeld, and Jim Flynn are at now, and of course, Team TNT is no more since Ty Halderman's passing.

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T-Rex said:

Bob Evans came back just to bring us the rest of the missing Odessa maps

I missed this thread of epic proportions. Felt the excitement rising as the Compuserve back-up ISO was talked about, then by the last post was buried under sadness.

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Wow, this was great. Didn't know it was out there. Stayed up way past my bedtime reading the whole thing. Awesome, brings back a lot of great memories.

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ChrisC said:

Wow, this was great. Didn't know it was out there. Stayed up way past my bedtime reading the whole thing. Awesome, brings back a lot of great memories.

ChrisC, thanks for commenting on the thread. It's been awhile since we've played this wad, though! I have to say, it was a pleasure going through this epic megawad (though I've played this for years), and you were definitely among one of the best mappers for Eternal Doom. I wonder what it would be like if you've made regular Doom 2 maps, possibly gothic/medieval-themed castles would be your specialty. It would be great to see more maps from you in the future, especially when Sverre's back in mapping with his Plasmaplant map and most recent Echelon megawad. Excellent stuff there.

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ChrisC said:

Wow, this was great.

T-Rex said:

you were definitely among one of the best mappers for Eternal Doom.

dobu gabu maru said:

Ditto this. Loved your castles!

Absolutely. When I think of Eternal Doom, I don't think of the starting techbases, or the sci-fi-y Timeslips and Timegates and whatever, or the Jim Flynn maps (which I hate with the fire of a thousand burning suns) or even Bob Evans' devious puzzlers. No, the first thing I think of when I think "Eternal Doom" is your (Chris Couleur's) massive sprawling castles that were/are such a joy to get hopelessly lost in. I'm not the only who would be ecstatic to see a modern-day release from you. (No pressure! :) )

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Master O said:

English, do you speak it?


Sorry, but no. I can't even write it, either. I apologize for your inconvenience.

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On 5/6/2016 at 6:17 AM, T-Rex said:

 goodness knows where Paul Schmitz, Dia, Adam Landefeld, and Jim Flynn are at now, and of course, Team TNT is no more since Ty Halderman's passing.


Who summoned me from the realms of the dead? ;)

Serious - after 15 years I´m back in the saddle and for all who missed me I brought a lost Eternal.wad with me. :)
 


 

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