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MINDDomakr

Older Doomers Opinions

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I'm new to DOOM. I wasn't even born when the first one was released.

I wanted to know the opinions that older players who lived through all the original Doom and Quake games. People who are now 30 or 40.

Now that the beta has come and gone, what do you think of the new game and how well does it stack up against what you thought it would be before the beta came out?

Do you think this game holds a candle to the originals?

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MINDustry said:

I'm new to DOOM. I wasn't even born when the first one was released.

I wanted to know the opinions that older players who lived through all the original Doom and Quake games. People who are now 30 or 40.

Now that the beta has come and gone, what do you think of the new game and how well does it stack up against what you thought it would be before the beta came out?

Do you think this game holds a candle to the originals?



The game seems good so far. As far as holding a candle to the originals..pretty much nothing will ever be the originals. But it does try to capture a decent amount of artwork and gameplay features. The new game is obviously in a HUGE way trying to please two completely different generations at the same time. That being said, I believe they are succeeding.

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The MP makes me think of Mr Smiley Head's Safari because of the costumizations and the silly taunts, I suppose it does feel like Doom and it will probably be better in the campaign.

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I don't care much about the multiplayer, but I never played a ton of Doom MP. What I've seen of the single player content looks promising.

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Well, I played the first doom games when they came out. I was immediately drawn to
level editing. A classmate and I did nothing else than draw maps during class,
think about what sounds and textures to replace and ofcourse challenge eachother.
Ate and drank quake1 , just played quake2, ate and drank quake3. Again made some maps
for quake1 and made tons for quake3. The overall pleased feeling I had with those
games was the high level possibilities we had after we finished the campaign.

Now, as we played the alpha, we again started to challenge eachother within the
limitations. Then followed the beta. I can safely say that I'm pleased with most of
the things I saw in there. It feels solid, just like I'm used to with ID games.
The beta was pure multiplayer, so it's hard to judge by just that, but that being
said, even by only experiencing the mp, i have high expectations because it's easy
to imagine how the single player would feel like. Just paste the mp experience
together with the campaign videos u can find online and there we go... For me that
sounds like pure fun. Ofcourse some of the things are different than what I would
have chosen, but that's a given... it's been said already, U can never please
everyone. So ignoring all the comments everywhere about peoples personal preferences,
I believe this game will have a similar impact on my gaming experience than any other
ID game i played. It will most likely Rock my world. I love demons, gore and being
creative with those factors. Doom is likely to offer that.

I preordered the moment I was able to.

My only fear is the speculations and or facts that people have released about
the limitations of snapmap. So my hopes there are with the community.

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Some things I'd like to add which I've already said in other threads: the cyberdemon is terrible, doesn't feel like the original, I mean it doesn't achieve to capture its personality, the Mancubus doesn't convince me, the new rocket launcher could be improved in order to make it feel more like the original, I mean it should look metallic so it looks and feels stronger, the level design looks promising, most of the artwork, demons and weapons feel like Doom, but the art direction has some flaws, so as you see it's not all bad but It's not all perfect either.

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I've said it before but to me it's like a new album from a cover band. They are playing your favorite tunes but it's not the original lineup. This is 'Doom' as envisioned by a bunch of other people. I'm intrigued, but will it hold onto me like the originals? No, and I doubt anything ever will. I'm sure it will be a fun ride, something I'll play a few times every other year or so, but that's it.

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All of my attention is on the single player campaign, and I am very happy with everything that has been revealed about Doom 2016. Can't wait to get a copy when it's released and relive Doom.

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I played the multiplayer beta for like 30 minutes and it was quickly apparent that it was not made for me.

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MINDustry said:

Do you think this game holds a candle to the originals?

There's defenately a lot of candles laying around the UAC facility...wich means Yeah it holds some candles to the originals))))

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I think it looks great, and I'm excited to get my hands on it (I don't bother with betas though). That said, it IS bethesda so my expectations are low when it comes to any sort of continued support of the game/tools. And on the subject of tools we can be confident it will not approach the scope nor ease of modding doom1/2.

As far as enemy designs go, I feel they are very much in the spirit of the original game. If you play doom3 (especially the expansion), anything bipedal is indistinguishable from an imp until you are within sneezing distance. If you play a doom2 slaughtermap with 100 enemies on screen, you can easily distinguish every enemy type and rapidly make a priority list of what needs to die. The way the doom4 models look wildly different from eachother, is going to help when there is a bunch on screen and your peripheral vision quickly identifies a harmless imp on the left, but a threatening archvile on the right. This is exactly within the spirit of the original doom design.

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I also don't see the multiplayer of Doom being widely successful. For old school shooter multiplayer, Blizzard's Overwatch is taking all the spotlight.

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If I'm comparing the new DOOM multiplayer to the original Doom multiplayer, then I feel the new DOOM wins hands down. I was never a big fan of Doom competitive multiplayer. Having four Doomguys strafing around at blasting fast speeds with no verticality just always looked silly to me. It wasn't until Quake when that multiplayer formula started to make sense to me (and I love Quake).

The Classic VS New comparison will become more interesting when we play the campaign. And unless iD makes some stupid mistakes we don't know about yet, I think the campaign will also stack up against the classic games pretty well. I can honestly see the new DOOM campaign being superior to the classic games in every way except for one or two elements (level design and maybe art style).

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Once koreans and chinese people engage in a game it's world domination. Just see the top 10 PC games in online revenue last year, you'll see the ones with lots competitive korean-chinese players just dominating the market in 2015:

League of Legends (Tencent/Riot Games) --$1.628 billion
CrossFire (SmileGate) -- $1.110 billion
Dungeon Fighter Online (Neople) -- $1.052 billion
World of Warcraft (Activision) -- $814 million
World of Tanks (Wargaming.net) -- $446 million
Lineage I (NCSoft Corporation) -- $339 million
Maplestory (Nexon) -- $253 million
Dota 2 (Valve Corporation) -- $238 million
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive (Valve Corporation) -- $221 million
Grand Theft Auto V (Take-Two Interactive) -- $205 million

From what I've seen, Overwatch multiplayer looked somehow more balanced than Doom.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfLaUd2ferk

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Will the new tools allow you to modify the game as heavily as you could with the classic dooms and quakes? I want level creation.

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Well, to me, the only thing that even comes close to Old Doom Deathmatch is Quake deathmatch, but that's a bit TOO vertical for me and often there's just a tad too much going on. I love Old Dooms insanely high DM "skill cap". For such a basic game, 1v1 matches are determined by some surprisingly nuanced strategizing, movement and map control.

FFA in Old Doom is often a clusterfuckfest, but I mean that in an endearing way. I think, based on the footage I've seen, New Doom will be far more practical/manageble for larger games/gamemodes to the average gamer, and indeed I will enjoy it, but for head to head, nothing will beat Old Doom.

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MINDustry said:

Will the new tools allow you to modify the game as heavily as you could with the classic dooms and quakes? I want level creation.


SnapMap will allow for pretty deep customization of the game logic, but level design won't be as customizable. You're essentially given a lot of lego pieces that you snap together to create maps. And within those lego pieces you can add decorations, change the atmosphere, add props, add enemies, etc. So you'll certainly get a lot of user created levels, but the creators have to use preset level pieces. The plus side is that any SnapMap creation is playable across all three platforms (PC, PS4, Xbox One). So when all those Doom veterans make crazy stuff on their PCs, the console plebs can enjoy them too, and vice versa.

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I played two rounds of the Alpha and two rounds of the Beta and that was it.

Not my cup of tea, hopefully the single player campaign is good.

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Linguica said:

I played the multiplayer beta for like 30 minutes and it was quickly apparent that it was not made for me.


Why not?

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The more I see of it, the less I think I'll enjoy it. But I seem to be among the minority, at least from reading around here. They really should have kept in mind that the most vocal proponents of making it faster, more cartoony and more "kickass" are a tiny sub-sect of the fanbase, and an even tinier portion of the gaming community in general. The original reveal with the door opening and the cyberdemon had me thinking awesome, and every time they've released something new after that has worn my anticipation away, to the point where now I may not even get it on release day.

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I clocked about 4 hours or so. Alphas and Beta total.
The first hour or two I really enjoyed, but as time went on I started caring less and less. It's not a BAD MP game, but it's not really all that good either. I think this, like many multiplayer games, has become very bland and grey in the holy name of "balance". Everything's the same. The weapons (except the Gauss cannon and Revenant pickup) all lack a distinct feel and punch. Ignore the hitpoint labels and you'd never know you were doing any damage. Shooting someone at point blank with the SSG should kill them in most situations. Same with the rocket launcher dead on. Same goes for the "sniper".

No weapons are really allowed to be better than the others so you end up with something extremely samey. Sure, Doom2 DM is 90% SSG, but who cares? It's fun! As I see it, the weapons should be beefed up in their distinctive areas. The SSG would kill you in close quarters. The Rocket Launcher is great for medium range. The sniper for long distances. Yeah it's already somewhat like that, but they should really push the differences of the weapons more. Another thing that would greatly increase the value would be maps that are radically different. The two maps in the beta are almost identical. Let the areas dictate which weapons are more useful. This also means removing loadouts and bringing back weapon pickups. Add some danger/drawbacks to the pickup locations so it almost becomes a game in itself to get them.

Right now the game is neither here nor there. Caught between two chairs. Grey.

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Hmm...

The new DooM could be fun, perhaps, but I'm heartfelt fed up with the "reboot" shit at this particular moment in time. It pervades every aspect of the entertainment industry these days. Is it a felony to come up with new ideas? Why not continue the story after DooM II or 64 instead of doing DooM I all over again?

Other than that, I think that the weapons seem weak in both damage output and sfx, the "glory kills" are silly, and the graphics and overall atmosphere is nowhere near as grisly as in the predecessors.

Also, I can't stand the dubstep (or whatever it's called) inspired music.

So, no, I won't be getting it, not when we have over twenty years of WADs to play through.

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I knew right off the bat MP was going to be a gimmick because they're pushing Glory Kills. Which was disappointing because I had hopes that Doom would revive legitimate skill based Shooters. Now that I know you can turn them off, that's awesome, but the speed could certainly be quicker and loadouts are a joke. Glory Kills aren't new yet they're advertised as the Hot New Thing. They completely ruined AVP online. I don't particularly find Demon Runes to be cool, either.
It's a bit annoying they're recycling Skryrim ideas for Doom. (Which by the way, Bethesda, fancy GFX still can't beat the epic massiveness of Morrowind.)
It's also annoying that pc games have to adapt to a controller, which in turn seems to cascade and dumb everything else down with it. Epic and Microsoft both threw out cross-platform Multiplayer because within the first 10 minutes of both tests mediocre pc players were crushing controller players.

They could've taken a note from Netherrealm Studios and rebooted with less "new." MK9 was fucking awesome, and it was awesome because they cut all the bullshit and went back to quickness from Mortal Kombats of old. There's another game that properly went to its roots but the name currently escapes me.

Besides the goofy ass cyberdemon, I have pretty high hopes for Single Player, and I'll be playing it mostly to see if they pull off Classic Level design (which still and always will rock) and to see modern depictions of classic enemies.
I think the term "Doom Slayer" is completely retarded, something I'd expect the COD crowd to come up with.

These are my gripes, and they come from being present during the Doom Explosion. I'll never forget how I felt when we walked into a pc store and saw people huddled around a computer, and the Doomguy's face when I finally squeezed between adults for a mind-blowing glance.
Regardless of sounding bitchy, I am excited but also expecting the worst so if I get something awesome it'll be that much sweeter.

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I played the beta for around 12h - got no invite for the alpha

it feels like a mix between quake and cod - there are some things to polish like weapon balance and the movement speed could be a little bit faster but the rest looks great so far, very nice level architecture, excellent soundeffects except the announcer - the gameplay feels very smooth and it's awesome

singleplayer-wise I'm not happy with some of the demon designs, for example the chubbymoose or the cartoonish looking pinky - anyway, the new doom will hit like a bomb I'm sure about that especially with snapmap

currently I'm re-playing doom 3 with some graphic mods and it's fun as hell (literally :D) yes sure it's different there are no levels with 100 monsters at the same time, mostly just 2-4 but that's fine, it's different and it's AWESOME in that different way because it makes everything right in this direction

and to add a little note to the oldschool doom lovers and doom 3 haters - the old doom games were not perfect too - what annoys me the most about the old doom games is the beloved level design - when your biggest problem is to find a way to the keys and not the demons because the levels feel like a huge labyrinth something went WRONG, don't you think? well yeah you guys NOW know how to get to the keys but when you're new to the game it's hilarious - I do understand that it was normal to this time to create levels like that - like it's normal nowadays to make shitty tube-levels ala cod

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Deatheye said:

when your biggest problem is to find a way to the keys and not the demons because the levels feel like a huge labyrinth something went WRONG, don't you think?...I do understand that it was normal to this time to create levels like that...


You're right about it being a product of the times, wolfenstein/keen were filled with things that the designers did not add "clues" for - you just had to find them through happenstance or experiment. That kind of design was very common in the console realm that preceded id, I think it was born out of how people back then understood the concept of "game" - probably a puzzle to stump the brain. It gave early designs a sense of hostility imo, like Indiana Jones walking into a forgotten temple riddled with bullshit traps (but a golden nugget at the end).

I'm not suggesting id go back to the "no hand holding" design concept, because people's concept of "game" has changed to be something that relaxes them. But I did need to shoot down your idea that challenging/bullshit puzzles were "wrong" - if you were stumped by them, the author is probably smiling.

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Vorpal said:

You're right about it being a product of the times, wolfenstein/keen were filled with things that the designers did not add "clues" for - you just had to find them through happenstance or experiment. That kind of design was very common in the console realm that preceded id, I think it was born out of how people back then understood the concept of "game" - probably a puzzle to stump the brain. It gave early designs a sense of hostility imo, like Indiana Jones walking into a forgotten temple riddled with bullshit traps (but a golden nugget at the end).

I'm not suggesting id go back to the "no hand holding" design concept, because people's concept of "game" has changed to be something that relaxes them. But I did need to shoot down your idea that challenging/bullshit puzzles were "wrong" - if you were stumped by them, the author is probably smiling.

This kind of old school game design is what I really miss when it comes to my childhood video games. It was cool to just explore maps, find random secrets or solve cryptic puzzles. I can't remember the last game that really captured that aspect of game design. New games have really made a step backwards in this regard. I remember when Hitman Absolution came out, one of the developers said that a big percentage of gamers won't play through the whole game. And that game was really streamlined. Does an average gamer really have that short of an attention span, so little time or too much other games to play?

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larrypotter said:

Does an average gamer really have that short of an attention span, so little time or too much other games to play?


Just look at all the people who said they played one match of the DOOM beta and deleted it. Hell, even I wasn't really feeling the Alpha after one or two matches, but then it started to click and now I'm fan.

I'm sure a large reason why people behave that way is because they just have so many games to play. I was guilty of the same behavior when I've had multiple games on my plate, and I'd try something new with a very short amount of patience, almost trying not to like it so that I'd have less to play.

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MINDustry said:

Will the new tools allow you to modify the game as heavily as you could with the classic dooms and quakes? I want level creation.

Core game - NO! Real level creation is only possible with idStudio - tool that was used to create game itself....it's amasing but we don't know if it'll ever arrive...considering that tere will be dlc for SnapMap - highly unlikely.

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