Switches that only work on the second press

[Fonze]

What makes this happen?

I read some posts every now and again that reference something like this and I remember a zDoom map I made a while back that had a light switch that had to be pressed twice to work. Thought it was cool at the time so I never looked into it, but I'm curious now: what causes some switches to not function on their first press, instead functioning on their second?

[Jan]

You get that if there's a linedef right in front of it that has an S1 action.

Example: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5lf8mi4p311d74r/swdemo1.wad?dl=0

The linedef in front of the switch opens the right door. The switch itself opens the left door.

[Fonze]

That's a good example, Jan, but not really what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a switch that you hit and you see it toggle, but the first time it literally does nothing (though in posts I've read its hard to interpret exactly if this first mystery press can be a different action, which logic tells me no, but then again dynamic architecture on a particular difficulty setting alone isn't possible either by the same logic) while the second time it functions correctly. Probably has to be a repeatable action switch, too. Perhaps the answer in merely an incorrect use of the trigger by the mapper; I'm not sure. I might post an example of this some time tonight to clear things up a bit more.

[Empyre]

Are you trying to do this on purpose, or are you trying to figure out what went wrong to accidentally cause this to happen?

[40oz]

Iirc i think there's a "SR light change to brightest adjacent" linedef type. There's probably some stuff you can do with control sectors that would make it so that the switch doesn't work at first, then when you do something else, the control sector changes its light level to something brighter and then your switch will get its new light level.

I dont think it would be an immediate 1-2 action, you'd have to do something in between to get it to work. It might not work at all though so I might just be talking out of my ass.

[NeedHealth]

Wouldn't this work with dummy players and sectors?

[scifista42]

The switch's repeatable action might be all the same, but the result of it might be conditioned by a particular configuration of floor/ceiling heights of sectors neighboring with the target sector, if the particular linedef action was dependant on them (Floor Lower to Lowest Floor, etc). Or by their light level, as 40oz said. Those floor/ceiling heights/brightnesses of neighboring sectors might be changed by other switches / triggers, which would change the result of the original switch's action when pressed again later.

[Jan]

Fonze said:

That's a good example, Jan, but not really what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a switch that you hit and you see it toggle, but the first time it literally does nothing (though in posts I've read its hard to interpret exactly if this first mystery press can be a different action, which logic tells me no, but then again dynamic architecture on a particular difficulty setting alone isn't possible either by the same logic) while the second time it functions correctly. Probably has to be a repeatable action switch, too. Perhaps the answer in merely an incorrect use of the trigger by the mapper; I'm not sure. I might post an example of this some time tonight to clear things up a bit more.

There can also be a small 1 unit wide sector in front of the actual switch, with the action "S1 raise to nearest ceiling" that, with the help of a control sector, causes it to insta pop down the 1 unit wide sector when pressed, revealing the actual switch, giving you the illusion that you just pulled a switch and nothing happened.

If the switch is on a pillar or something, the 1 unit wide sector is almost impossible to notice.

I used that effect in dodead E1M3 to reveal the teleporter that took you to the BFG secret.

Quick demo wad: https://www.dropbox.com/s/icyuwfvyldsemeu/swdemo2.wad?dl=0

[Fonze]

Ah lotta replies all of a sudden.

Empyre said:

Are you trying to do this on purpose, or are you trying to figure out what went wrong to accidentally cause this to happen?

These two go hand in hand for me. More like what made a happy accident work and how can I abuse it in the future.



Actually 40 hit the nail right on the head. I was drinking and fucking with it last night and recreated it. I'll post the example I made to clear things up, but basically that's what happens when you have two sectors tagged the same, touching one another, with a couple static sectors attached. First press the light level of the main sector doesn't hit the top, though the secondary, but same-tagged sector does. Second press the first sector catches up with the second. Idk why that wasn't obvious before to me, but then again the map I made with that happy accident I made probably 3 or 4 years ago, so I was simply using tools I didn't understand and this basically boils down to what "locking system" you use for your mechanics.

Scifista was also right on the head there. I've used similar setups with floor/ceiling heights to make shit like traps that only function after crossing line x, but only after first crossing line y and other standard shit like that.

I guess part of my problem was also being in zDoom (Doom in Hexen) because the trigger doesn't say the word "adjacent" in it. I mean, what the hell else would it be, granted, but I guess when I was newer I didn't put 2 and 2 together on that. I Thought the action was literally change to brightest setting, not brtst adj.

Still, I think the implications of this (simple in retrospect) mechanic could be cool for puzzle maps as it's yet another "locking" mechanism.

Got the b/s on Dropbox, I doubt anyone needs to see this but if for some reason what I said didn't come out as clear as I think it did here: DeleteMe.wad (boom) is the example map (room) I made last night.



That's cool jan. Good vanilla way to do it.