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ChekaAgent

What first-person shooters do you consider classic?

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What qualities must first-person shooter have in order to fall into classics category, in your opinion?

Does it necessarily have to be made in 90s?
Does it necessarily have to have a cult following?
Does it necessarily have to lack modern features, such as reloading and aiming down sights?
Does it necessarily have to have a very simple plot, like Doom, or lack the plot at all, like Quake 3?

Would you consider Serious Sam or Painkiller classic?
Wou you consider Half-Life or Return to Castle Wolfenstein classic?
Would you consider Doom classic? Ok, enough.

Post your opinions.

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My answers: no, no, no, no. :-)

I do consider Serious Sam a classic. Painkiller is rather popular but I've personally never seen the appeal -- too repetitive and simple. The other two, for sure.

A classic simply has to be a great game, made in any year, and one that creates a significant impact in a positive way. That could just be a significant impact to myself, not necessarily shared with others.

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chungy said:

That could just be a significant impact to myself, not necessarily shared with others.


So, you think the term 'classic game' is subjective? But what if I say that Doom 3 is classic? Nobody will agree with me on that.

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I'd personally define "classic" as something that was both well received and had major impacts on the genre. Wolf 3D, Doom, Duke 3D, Halo, Quake, GoldenEye, Half-Life, System Shock, etc.

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Shareware Doom
Doom Registered
The Ultimate Doom
Doom2
Doom2: No Rest for the Living
Final Doom: Evilution
Final Doom: The Plutonia Experiment
Doom64

I have a wide variety of tastes!

Spoiler

ok you caught me, I also really like Duke Nukem, Wolf3D, Left 4 Dead 1+2, and... Uhhh... I still play Goldenye once in a blue moon, it hasn't aged as badly as people pretend. That's about it in the way of my personal 'classics'.

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It depends on what you mean for classic.

Does it mean

"so old no one could propose it today on the market but still enjoyable"?
"it still has something to teach to today FPSs"?
"is it a masterpiece of the genre, which many has tried to follow"?

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Probably: the 2.5D Doom's, Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, RTCW, HL1 (although I never cared a great deal for the series), STALKER SoC, Hidden and Dangerous 2, the first three Quake's, Blood, Dark Forces, first two Soldier of Fortune games, Outlaws, Shadow Warrior '97.

I guess this will do for me.

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ChekaAgent said:

So, you think the term 'classic game' is subjective? But what if I say that Doom 3 is classic? Nobody will agree with me on that.

I do, and I'd happen to agree with that too.

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While I think the 90s was the defining period for classic FPS there's games in the early to mid 00s that can also be considered classics now, and as the years go on these games will get older and depending on how popular/influential/large their community is will be known as classic or 'old school' down the line.

Far as biggest/most influential FPS and the availability of maps, mods, ports etc. would have to go to games like Wolfenstein 3D, DOOM obviously, Duke Nukem 3D, maybe Quake 1 although it's arguably smaller than the first three I listed, definitely Half-Life 1, Unreal Tournament, Counter-Strike. Hell I'd even say POSTAL 2 considering its still alive and continues to be supported by its devs but I think that's stretching things considering the 'quality' of that particular title.

In general I'd say System Shocks 1 and 2, Heretic and Hexen, Dark Forces, Rise of the Triad, Blood, Turok: Dinosaur Hunter, Quake II (maybe, seems to be the black sheep nowadays), Unreal (or at least I'd say it deserves to be on the list), Thief, Quake III Arena, Soldier of Fortune, Deus Ex, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Aliens versus Predator, No One Lives Forever, Serious Sam, F.E.A.R., Prey (or it damn well should be) and probably something else I'm forgetting.

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Depends on if you're really asking what's "classic" or if you mean what's "oldschool". "Classic" would be pretty much anything that was popular in its day and stands the test of time well enough to still be held in regard today.

Half-Life, for instance, is probably a classic but I wouldn't consider it oldschool at all (if anything, it heralded the death of old-guard style FPS games. No, things like Painkiller or Shadow Warrior 2013 are not the same.)

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Everything until Quake, 1996-1997 (including Duke3D, Blood, Chasm: The Rift, etc).

ChekaAgent said:

Does it necessarily have to lack modern features

Erm... yes? I mean, that's the idea.

TBH, the term is in fact subjective, but I think everyone will link a "classic category" to oldschool.

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No, no, no, and no.

Serious Sam, Half Life, and RTCW, yes. Painkiller... not really.

Doom/Build engine games, Quake era games, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Halo: Combat Evolved, all the way to even HL2, Doom 3, Halo 2. After around that time I don't really think there are much more.

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Hmm.. I always thought that the majority desides if the game is classic or not. And I also thought that the classic game must be pretty old and must have a big following.
That's why I was asking if RTCW, Serious Sam or Painkiller are classics, because they were released after 90s and they're not really that popular. For me all those games are undoubtfully classic, but I wanted to hear other people about them.

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Halo Combat Evolved
The first in the series that actually felt good to play through.

Quake.
Nuff said.

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Classic is subjective, I guess it's games you grew up on and have a fondness for. For me, it's the usual fare. Quake, Doom, Wolfenstein, but one I kind that strangely holds a special place in my heart despite not being a particularly great game is Nitemare 3D. I don't know why, but that game has a lot of nostalgic value for me. Even though it was based on the Wolf 3D engine, it's pretty cool how they added things like treasure chests, elevators, and block puzzles, even having certain weapons be more effective against certain enemies.

ETTiNGRiNDER said:

Half-Life, for instance, is probably a classic but I wouldn't consider it oldschool at all (if anything, it heralded the death of old-guard style FPS games. No, things like Painkiller or Shadow Warrior 2013 are not the same.)


Though, it also had some oldschool mechanics like static health and unlimited weapon roster, something the HL2 series actually retained. It's sort of a wash between the middle.

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For me, it's just a shooter that stands out and never lose it's enjoyment. Like Doom, Quake 1, and Unreal Tournament for examples.

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Serious Sam is a classic, it was inspired by Doom in terms of weapons, the shotgun, the mighty coach gun and other weapons and Duke as well, because one-liners, personality, kills aliens and other monsters, so yeah, Serious Sam is a classic.
Also Wolf3D, Rott, the build engine games, Quake, yeah these i consider to be classic FPS.
Now Painkiller, no, it's not a classic, sure it was inspired by Doom and Quake, but the gameplay gets repetitive and boring, go north, shoot everything, go south, kill everything, it never ends till the end of a level.
But it has cool metal music so will i give it that.

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Since i was born in 1990, classic FPS's to me are basically shooters that were released that decade, so all 2.5D - early 3D FPS games (Doom,Hexen,Duke3D,Blood, SiN,Unreal Tournament,Kingpin,Quake etc)

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When I personally think of classic, I think strictly 90s.
Even when it was early 2000's and I was watching stuff for Half-Life 2 and Doom 3, I considered HL and original Dooms classics by that point. The original Doom was barely 10 years old at that point, too.
And now, D3 and HL2 released in 2004, it's been 12 years, yet I still don't consider them 'classic'.
Part of the reason for this is, I think, that the leap from sprites in a semi-3D level, to low poly early polygonal models in actual 3D yet primitive levels, to how Doom3 and HL2 looked, isn't as big a leap as from those games to now. Sure, stuff released now looks better, there's more polygons, more shaders, more particles etc etc, but when you look at some of the facial animations in HL2 and compare them with games today, it's not that big of a leap, then compare that stuff to 90's games (the few that had it) and it's like comparing a human talking next to a ventriloquist dummy. There is also a lot more nuanced scripting and small touches, like a character scratching the back of their head or just simply blinking, that the older games didn't have.
Above all, though, I think the biggest reason is that gaming as a whole was still in infancy in the early 90's, as far as at home goes. These early games pioneered what was to come, using the limited tools of the time, and so many of them got it right the first time that games today still try to capture it. That is why I consider something like Doom or Half-Life classic but not something like Half-Life 2, Crysis, or Painkiller, because these games were great in their generation, but they are children from an older generation that paved the way.
I also just got home from a long day of work and didn't get enough sleep last night, so sorry if this was all incoherent

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Hovertank 3D
Catacomb 3D
Wolfenstein 3D
Doom
Doom 2
Rise of the Triad
Duke Nukem 3D
Quake
Half Life
Quake 3 Arena

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Anything 2.5 or low poly graphics, I kinda feel halo ce was one of the last classics. It's not something I'v put much though into.

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Wolfenstein 3D
Doom 1,2
Duke Nukem 3D
Dark Forces
Blood
Quake 1-2-3
System Shock 1,2
Half-Life 1,2
Unreal Tournament '99, 2004
Perfect Dark
Aliens Versus Predator 1,2
Halo: Combat Evolved
Halo 3
Call Of Duty: Modern Warfare
Metroid Prime
Bioshock
Bioshock: Infinite

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It's a hard question, i consider Doom, Wolfenstein, the first Call of Duty and Medal of Honor titles, Black and many more as classics.

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How about Unreal Tournament, Quake 1, 2, and 3, and Wolfenstein 3D?
Yeah, that's classic enough. I'm fucking retro.

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DeathevokatioN said:

No ones mentioned Unreal, yet. :'(

I just bloody did, mate.

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The first Unreal Tournament for sure. I'm not so sure Unreal #1 deserves to be considered a classic: it looked great, but was a fairly dull game to play.

Xerge said:

I think no one has mentioned Descent.


That's a good point.

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