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Kimota

"Zis is KAOSS!” Kaoss wads (work in progress): 10 maps for DOOMII

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Why Kaoss, well, ahem... remember the opening title of “Get Smart”? Remember de doors opening and closing, remember the phone booth at the end lowering down? Well, that is what made me use this name for the wads, also it sounds like “chaos”... and... that’s it. :D "Zis is kaoss!"

Let’s get to the wads, my goal is to make a 10 maps pwad, all linked together (map1, then map2... and the end in map10) I have already 8 maps playable, in different levels of finishing/retouching some of them (textures are a killing for me using just the standards from DOOMII), anyway, hard and fun.

Although maps have a number map4, map8, etc... I do NOT have the wads organized in the final order, because I have realized that some maps are more difficult that others, even when I have assigned them low number maps, I mean maybe map4 is more complicate than map7, so... I have to reorganized (or maybe to organized just a couple of maps, hard to say now) the secuence of all maps AFTER testing them separately. And you testing, of course.

Thank you for testing them, and I apologize for any “not fun” part, not my intention, that is why I NEED your perspective.

Quineotio told me here to put them all in a single pwad... all 8 maps... but... i think that -maybe- it is better to test them separately.

Maps have been build with Doom Builder, option BOOM, and tested with zdoom, and –for me- everything works fine-, no jump, no new UI, nothing new, just classic, it is ok to lookup and lookdown options... just that... please do not “mega run”, do not crouch, or anything like that... as I say just lookup and lookdown it is ok, cause I have not design the maps for anything else.

Maps are created without skill levels, just “HURT ME PLENTY”, after I think (with your feedback) a map it is ok, I implement levels "hard" and "easy"... but after test them in mode “hurt me plenty” (for me it was the standard back in old times).

No multiplayer or deathmatch, those things come after, and some maps are not very good for deathmatch. (IF you want dmatch maps I can create them just for that). So basically are single player/hurt me plenty... (As I said, I will include skill levels later).

Let’s start whith maps like Kaoss3, kaoss7 and kaoss9 (links below)...

Map3 (kaoss3) is a map with many options... watch with enemies teleports (I do it on purpouse to offer the player to hear enemies moving here and there, other maps are monster tp silent)

Map7 (kaoss7) is not a easy map, the end... have to be more fun for players... dunno, need your eyes seeing what I do not see, I have the feeling that the end it is a little anticlimax.... but... maybe I am wrong.

Map9 (kaoss9)... I don’t know, it is fun, with old tricks, like an old dog knowning all the tricks... it is fun... but... need to balance it, to tune it fine...

I have more maps ready... but I think that starting with these three will be enough to understand new players and old players of DOOM. Oh, maps order is, as I said, subject to rethink.
Thank you for your time and comments.


************************


EDIT/UPDATED/sunday/24th: (Do not want to double post).

First of all: THANK YOU rdwpa and scifista42 for your info, well thought ideas and comments, I saw (finally) all your video-demos... great work, both of you. I need feedback and yours is really helpful!

Here you have another two wads for your testing and comments. As you you can see they have a letter added to the file name "a" kaoss(-)a.wad... meaning they are a "fresh" and recheck version of the wad...

You may not imagine how good is to see you playing the maps, testing them, cause it is something NEEDED, and I humble offer them for you to be tested.

I am rebuilding the other maps you have played, and -as you can imagine- it is not just a matter of "five minutes and they are ok", I want them -all of them- fun to play, and your comments and video-demos made me think a lot.

Ok, the maps... again... Maps have been built with Doom Builder, option BOOM, and tested with zdoom, and –for me- everything works fine-, no jump, no new UI, nothing new, just classic, it is ok to lookup and lookdown options... and again... Maps are created without skill levels, just “HURT ME PLENTY” for testing purposes.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0tTGz3d6EnmbFhYMWRENjBxTGs/view?usp=sharing Map5 (kaoss5a)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0tTGz3d6EnmZ3Ixcm9Id0Q0V0E/view?usp=sharing Map8 (kaoss8a)

kaoss5a--- again tpmonsters, hahahaha, but in a more controled way... and a "theme" (I think) more standard and without strong changes in style. Was the first map I made when I decided to come back to DOOM world, naive sometimes, and a puzzle sometimes... hope you like it.

kaoss8a--- playing it now I think I always make wads hard at the begining and let the player relax when ending is coming... or maybe not... I dunno... hope you enjoy and expect your comments. Surprises included. :D


************************


EDIT/UPDATED/may/4th...

Here you have another wad for your testing and comments. Kaoss10 (numbers now means nothing as you know by now. Just implemented HMP.

I am not very sure about balance, especially in the final area. I think it's a bit too difficult... or maybe it is just me playing poorly.

Here, I THINK I have kept same style in all the map... Also, I have not created too many "front attacks" (well, some are just there, no other way I think...) I have some doubts with the FUN, maybe cause I had just played many times already and I have my mind crushed now, hahaha... As always, please, some feedback needed. Thank you. :)


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0tTGz3d6EnmbjBhaU9GRXJHc1U/view?usp=sharing (kaoss10)

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If you're using Boom features, there's no reason not to test the maps in prBoom+ and ensure a wider audience.

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rdwpa said:

If you're using Boom features, there's no reason not to test the maps in prBoom+ and ensure a wider audience.


Ehm... as I said in other post, I am TRYING to understand this new world of ports and addons... please, help me, info sometimes is complicate and I have tried to learn most... but... ok, I am a newbie... :P

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https://sourceforge.net/projects/prboom-plus/

This is prBoom+. The mouse control is different unfortunately so it might take a bit of time to get used to it. What you want to avoid are 'ZDoomisms' -- mapping errors that (G)ZDoom fixes but lower ports don't. One example (of many) is lifts tagged zero; (G)ZDoom can apply a line action to the adjacent sector, making the lift function as it should, but it can break in other ports. Someone can probably link to a list of all the common ZDoomisms.

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rdwpa said:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/prboom-plus/

This is prBoom+. The mouse control is different unfortunately so it might take a bit of time to get used to it. What you want to avoid are 'ZDoomisms' -- mapping errors that (G)ZDoom fixes but lower ports don't. One example (of many) is lifts tagged zero; (G)ZDoom can apply a line action to the adjacent sector, making the lift function as it should, but it can break in other ports. Someone can probably link to a list of all the common ZDoomisms.


I see, I understand... hmmm... jessssist...Yeah, lifts... hmmm ok... okok...Never thought about that problem, really, hmmm... lower ports don't cover that... ok... BUT... I ask you, IF, just IF I have put all things very basic, very "by the book" (DOOMII) will it give problems to players using lower ports? :) Thank you for your "atending to newbies". :)

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If you choose a game configuration "Doom 2" or "Boom" in your mapping editor, if you avoid using S1/SR/W1/WR/G1/GR linedef actions with tag 0, if you avoid putting any walkover-or-other special action linedefs straight in front of switches, if you put custom sprites/flats/textures into your wad only by the actual vanilla compatible ways according to doomwiki/tutorials, if you respect vanilla's static limits in case you wanted your project compatible with vanilla or Chocolate Doom, and if you manage to avoid engine bugs (don't worry about the huge list, you don't need to learn them all, probably nobody knows them all, just care after you experience them), you'll probably be OK - but actually testing in a "lower port" is the only correct way to check it.

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scifista42 said:

If you choose a game configuration "Doom 2" or "Boom" in your mapping editor, if you avoid using S1/SR/W1/WR/G1/GR linedef actions with tag 0, if you avoid putting any walkover-or-other special action linedefs straight in front of switches, if you put custom sprites/flats/textures into your wad only by the actual vanilla compatible ways according to doomwiki/tutorials, if you respect vanilla's static limits in case you wanted your project compatible with vanilla or Chocolate Doom, and if you manage to avoid engine bugs (don't worry, you normally don't need to learn about them until you experience them), you'll probably be OK - but actually testing in a "lower port" is the only correct way to check it.


Well, thank you, never my actions are tag 0, I do doors with tags as in old book, every linedef has a target never 0, so I am really old way mapper, as I understand your explanation, thank you, I think I have followed all the classic explanations from doomwiki (maybe I am wrong, but I do not think so)... OK, I really have to recheck my work in order to be... in order LOWER port is ok. But remember, I was there with Romero (not really, you know...) I try to come back with pleasure to this amazing world.

Thank you, and thank you all, I never thought... that nowadays things are so... so complex. Hey, I am stubborn, I can learn, I want to learn, the more I learn, the better I will make maps...

Also in a personal note, I feel overwhelmed... with all the things people have done with doom. I was 20 when I just discovered Doom, now I am... OLD. NO excuse, of course, I will try to do my best with all your info... Thank you.

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Kimota said:

Well, thank you, never my actions are tag 0, I do doors with tags as in old book, every linedef has a target never 0,

Actually, linedef actions of D1/DR type should be used with tag 0. Only the other types shouldn't be.

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scifista42 said:

Actually, linedef actions of D1/DR type should be used with tag 0. Only the other types shouldn't be.


Right! :)

EDIT: Can you download my maps? Just wondering... and testing them? :)

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I played map03 in prBoom+, even recording a demo, and it happened not to break. :)

http://www.mediafire.com/download/1cdypg190dac5xx/kaoss3_rdpwa_fda.lmp

To replay, DL prBoom+ and drag both your wad and the demo onto the exe.

One death due to the pack of shotgunners that teleport into the starting room after the player enters the left teleporter. That setup was disproportionate with the rest of the level in terms of lethality, and it's also somewhat unfair: the player will have no armor at that point, and if two or three shotgunners decide to fire at the same time, there's pretty much nothing you can do to avoid taking quite a bit of damage. As you see, THREE shotgunners decided to shoot all within a second, and I couldn't do anything against that. :) It's pure RNG lottery.

I liked the combat in the Modwall area the best. Of note: Ammo was extremely generous throughout the level, and health also ended up being very generous during the second half.

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rdwpa said:

I played map03 in prBoom+, even recording a demo, and it happened not to break. :)

http://www.mediafire.com/download/1cdypg190dac5xx/kaoss3_rdpwa_fda.lmp

To replay, DL prBoom+ and drag both your wad and the demo onto the exe.

One death due to the pack of shotgunners that teleport into the starting room after the player enters the left teleporter. That setup was disproportionate with the rest of the level in terms of lethality, and it's also somewhat unfair: the player will have no armor at that point, and if two or three shotgunners decide to fire at the same time, there's pretty much nothing you can do to avoid taking quite a bit of damage. As you see, THREE shotgunners decided to shoot all within a second, and I couldn't do anything against that. :) It's pure RNG lottery.

I liked the combat in the Modwall area the best. Of note: Ammo was extremely generous throughout the level, and health also ended up being very generous during the second half.


Thank you.

I understand that part of RNG with shotgunners... hmmm... you are right, I will recheck that... maybe I got too "evil" with players, not fun... ok, got it. Yeah, too much RNG lottery in that part, again you are right, just that I thought to offer something unpredictable to players... but lost control of it and I see it is not fun, or funny.

I am agree with you about the part MORE classic (modwall part) but I thought that part was soooo classic and boring to young and experienced players (I am old, so...) that did not pay too much attention to that area. BUT I see you had fun, so... well, glad you liked it.

OK, rechecking ammo and health in second half of map. THANK YOU. I mean it.

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Here are first attempt demos for kaoss3 and kaoss7:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/adnfgipvmahprxj/benjogami_kaoss3_fda.lmp?dl=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/893u8tcqyipawoc/benjogami_kaoss7_fda.lmp?dl=1

I agree with rdwpa about kaoss3. I got luckier with the shotgunners at the beginning, so I didn't die, but pretty close. I came closer later during the chaingunner ambush. Aside from that, though, it seems like the map gets easier as it goes on, once you get the SSG and an abundance of shells and the monsters tend to not be hitscanners.

The visuals are mostly pretty good, except that the areas seems to transition between various texture themes without any real reason. But the disorienting nature of the teleporter hub does kind of complement that disjointedness.

kaoss7 I enjoyed more, as it felt more balanced and visually cohesive (still a bit disjointed--for example, the library room feels a bit out of context even after the lift rides), but then I got stumped on progression after the library room. I hit a switch, wasn't sure what it did, found the hallway that lead back the main hub room, heard a sector move, and then wandered around aimlessly for awhile before giving up. Sometimes I'm desperately obtuse and might have missed something obvious, but I feel like there must be a better way to signal where to go next. Or maybe something broke, I dunno.

Overall, the visuals and gameplay do feel appropriately classic, which is what you seem to be aiming for. I usually prefer more of a challenge on UV, though. For example, the arachnotron fight was at first interesting, with the closed off escape and pain sectors all around, but I found a cheesy solution pretty quickly.

Also, in the library, I found an empty secret.

Otherwise, I had fun. I'll definitely check out your other levels when I get a chance.

edit: just noticed that you said that UV isn't implemented yet. In that case, the difficulty seems pretty solid for HMP. Nice.

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Benjogami said:

Here are first attempt demos for kaoss3 and kaoss7:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/adnfgipvmahprxj/benjogami_kaoss3_fda.lmp?dl=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/893u8tcqyipawoc/benjogami_kaoss7_fda.lmp?dl=1

I agree with rdwpa about kaoss3. I got luckier with the shotgunners at the beginning, so I didn't die, but pretty close. I came closer later during the chaingunner ambush. Aside from that, though, it seems like the map gets easier as it goes on, once you get the SSG and an abundance of shells and the monsters tend to not be hitscanners.

The visuals are mostly pretty good, except that the areas seems to transition between various texture themes without any real reason. But the disorienting nature of the teleporter hub does kind of complement that disjointedness.

kaoss7 I enjoyed more, as it felt more balanced and visually cohesive (still a bit disjointed--for example, the library room feels a bit out of context even after the lift rides), but then I got stumped on progression after the library room. I hit a switch, wasn't sure what it did, found the hallway that lead back the main hub room, heard a sector move, and then wandered around aimlessly for awhile before giving up. Sometimes I'm desperately obtuse and might have missed something obvious, but I feel like there must be a better way to signal where to go next. Or maybe something broke, I dunno.

Overall, the visuals and gameplay do feel appropriately classic, which is what you seem to be aiming for. I usually prefer more of a challenge on UV, though. For example, the arachnotron fight was at first interesting, with the closed off escape and pain sectors all around, but I found a cheesy solution pretty quickly.

Also, in the library, I found an empty secret.

Otherwise, I had fun. I'll definitely check out your other levels when I get a chance.

edit: just noticed that you said that UV isn't implemented yet. In that case, the difficulty seems pretty solid for HMP. Nice.


Thank you!

I will change that begining in kaoss3, no doubt, I wanted something "unpredictable" and I got something not fun, so... will change that.

Hmmm, ok, too many areas with too many diferent textures or style, ok, recheck that too, let's see how I do it without breaking the tps-start... but your are right.

Kaoss7 hmmm the library, hmmm yes... too much work and it does not fit very very smoothly with other parts... again I will check that... LOL and empty secret room, my bad.

About what to do after librery... let me check one sec the map... Ok, back, I THINK I know what have happened, nothing is broken, but I GUESS you have done something I did not think the player would do, I will fix that and will "lead" the player in a better way to the end of the map.

That's right, I create all maps in HMP and then -after testing- create easy and hard levels.


Thank you again.

EDIT: At last I have manage to see your demo -Kaoss7- (been reading info on how to see lmp files, newbie I am shhhh), nice recording, and I have SEEN clearly my mistake in placing a switch a little bit ahemahem hidden. Will fix that, and several textures and the library and... and for lvl HMP maybe less health and less ammo? Hmmm...

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Bump.
(Is it ok to bump or my bones will end up in hell?)
]:-)

Some images from Kaoss2.wad, and soon, -this weekend I think- I will link two more maps for your testing... :)




****************
You can find links to maps kaoss5 and kaoss8 at OP in the UPDATE from the 24th.
****************
Thanks.

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kaoss9: In PrBoom+, I couldn't get out of the first room (presumably an untagged non-DR door?). So, no demo. I switched to GZDoom and played through. In general, I've found your levels to meander in confusing ways, and require a lot of backtracking such that once I find a key, I struggle to remember where I saw the door and how to get back there (my own poor navigation skills are certainly relevant though).

This map fits that description. I do like it when levels that require backtracking drop new monsters into previously-cleared areas, which you did do in places here, but they weren't very challenging or interesting. The arch vile was a good one, but that lone baron of hell was just asking to be ignored. A few revenants where that baron was, or a large closet full of pinkies further down in the crack room, maybe by that long secret room, might have made the backtrack through the crack room more interesting.

kaoss5a: FDA. I really liked the visuals on this level, much more than kaoss9. The light levels were used well, and there were some interesting rooms with a solid overall theme. There were quite a few misaligned textures, which you'll see me grunting on in the demo, making sure they weren't secrets. ;)

I got stuck for quite awhile trying to find one of the yellow key switches, but I think it was a fair puzzle for the most part. The weakest area gameplay-wise was certainly the crate area, with the heaps of shotgun guys and the baron that you can ignore at the end. Also, I like the idea of the revenant in that area (especially since I didn't have an SSG), but his placement made him easy to fight. Placing him somewhere where he can chase the player would be a lot better. Otherwise, it was fun to play even though there were hardly any high-tier monsters.

At the end of one of the maps, I forget which, there were lots of boxes of shells. Perhaps they're relevant to your plans for balancing a continuous playthrough, but they seemed pretty extraneous to me. :)

EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot to mention: the shoot switch at the end of kaoss5a is really awkward, since it's high up and you're not actually shooting the part of the wall that looks like a switch. I think it'd be better as a normal switch, and lower. Or a shoot switch across a gap and is at shooting height, such that it's obviously not a regular switch.

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FDA for 05: http://www.mediafire.com/download/g689kph6aawnhtw/kaoss5a_rdpwa_fda.lmp

I had read Benjogami's comment otherwise I wouldn't have thought the last switch was shootable at all. Yeah I agree about the layouts being a bit confusing -- I often have to check the automap to remember where a key door is.

The ammo in this map really is excessive even for HMP standards. I do enjoy how areas are often repopulated with monsters. That's one way to keep the action flowing during moments of backtracking.

One thing to keep in mind is barons have 1000 HP and hell knights have 500 HP, but they are otherwise identical. So you can use two hell knights and have the same amount of total HP but a higher threat level. A general principle is that if you can replace every baron with two hell knights without compromising the gameplay, you should nearly always do it. Common exceptions are: 1) replacing single barons with two hell knights would make things too hard (sometimes the case in cramped areas where barons are used, or in slaughter maps with baron hordes); 2) two hell knights simply won't fit, for example if you want to use a baron to block something; 3) the player has high-powered weapons (RL/PR/BFG) and you really want to use a baron for cinematic effect.

But in this map, even two hell knights simply won't work in place of the barons, because there's so much space and plinking away at high-HP monsters with weak weapons isn't fun. So you'd be better off replacing the barons with groups of low-tier monsters.

A lot of the gameplay was frontal, and I was expecting somewhat more aggressive repopulations, especially since I heard a bunch of imps snoring. In fact I decided during my playthrough that I'd try to have fun instead by taking as little damage as I could.

Also, I'm not sure if this was planned, but I really liked how the vine wall textures cloaked the imps in the second area.

In one of the areas there's a bridge that rises and you have teleporters set up so that the player can enter/exit again. That's also doable by making the bridge itself a lift.

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@Benjogami @rdwpa THANK YOU for your feedback!

Both of you are better players than me, by far... Ok... I am about to quit making maps... I think my time passed 20 years ago, and now... I just make easy, labyrinthine maps and a "driving miss daisy maps" for players... Ohboy! (No, I will do it better)

Ok... I have seen your demos, and taking notes.

@Benjogami

Kaoss9... Again, you are right, every single word... I am about to die, is not a challenge for you, I can see that. My fear is to top maps with hundreds of enemies, short of ammo and healing cause that will be a failure BUT doing the opposite is the same, or worst, cause is not fun... I see that you (both of you) play REALLY fast entering rooms, killing, moving forward at a fast pace, so my bad habit is to hide switches in corners, or at the end of the room or... and as you play so fast, and kill so fast there is no way (and of course players want a fast pace game/map) is fun to start moving here and there thinking "where the heck is the d..m switch now", I understand, and the backtracking has to be fun too IF backtracking is a good idea, that now I do not know... seeing the way people play now... or is just you both are very skilled... anyway... I do not know if there is a way of saving Kaoss9 (changing things), I will try but...

Kaoss5a... better look, but also very easy map as I see you playing it.. hmmm... I will tune it up as I did not realize players will be doing so many backtracking and finding switches and keydoors and such puzzle... The problem is that I hate the "up in the nose", the this-switch-opens-that, but maybe I have to rethink my concepts, cause maybe it is TOO puzzling... and no need for that, cause it slows the playability. :/

Crate area... I was "coward" not including more enemies and more powerful in that area. Revenat there was a shy attempt, but as you say, there are better ways to place a Revenant and your suggestion is perfect, a revenant chasing a player is much more better way... :/

Yes, too high that switch, I was trying to tell the player it was not a "normal" touch-switch, but you are right. Yes, better a normal one, at a normal height. :/

THANK YOU for your time, your testing, and your feedback.

@rdwpa

Bit confussing, oooh... sometimes I get lost in "is too easy this way, let's complicate the structure" (no excuse, it is a puzzle sometimes, my bad).

Too much ammo... you see, I am scare of... as I said before: "My fear is to top maps with hundreds of enemies, short of ammo and healing cause that will be a failure..."
But... seeing how you play, I have to forget about MY fears and do it for the players.

I agree with your comments about barons and the GOOD use of them... see? I try to use them not in narrow areas cause -for me- it means insta-death... but I see what you mean... More replanting of enemies, cause this way player will be "playing" not walking around -aghhh hate myself sometimes-. Yes, frontal gameplay... hmmm... yes, yes... have to change that, hmmm... some maps are complicate to change, like this one... but... I will tunned it up.

At least imps+vines textures was on porpouse... by the way, light is different in your demos than when I test maps here... is that cause I have a bad vid-configuration or... wrong video calibration? Or...? I see your demos with lot of light.

A clean solution is the lift, of course, making the bridge itself a lift!!! See? I spent hours thinking how to solve that problem, creating new areas, tps, textures, etc... AND THAT solution is VERY clean and neat. I am dumb sometimes, hahahaah.

THANK YOU for your time, your testing, and your feedback.


(For both or you: I am scared now to link more maps, gluppsss)

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I think you certainly should keep making maps, if you like to. There are tons of players (perhaps even the majority) that prefer the "classic" style and difficulty, which I don't think you're far off from. I would expect to have an easy time playing a classic-style Doom 2 map on Hurt Me Plenty. I pretty much never play on HMP, and I imagine that's true for a lot of the people that like to playtest. Which sometimes makes it hard to balance such a map.

So I hope my feedback doesn't make you feel like you need to make it harder. I think in general, at all difficulty levels, pressure should be put on the player. And then the harder modes and maps make it harder to deal with the pressure. But you can also put pressure on the player that is easy to deal with. I think that's what makes a well-balanced difficulty level.

That's why things like the revenant and baron stand out to me as things to give feedback on, because they're not really putting pressure on the player.

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Benjogami said:

I think you certainly should keep making maps, if you like to. There are tons of players (perhaps even the majority) that prefer the "classic" style and difficulty, which I don't think you're far off from. I would expect to have an easy time playing a classic-style Doom 2 map on Hurt Me Plenty. I pretty much never play on HMP, and I imagine that's true for a lot of the people that like to playtest. Which sometimes makes it hard to balance such a map.

So I hope my feedback doesn't make you feel like you need to make it harder. I think in general, at all difficulty levels, pressure should be put on the player. And then the harder modes and maps make it harder to deal with the pressure. But you can also put pressure on the player that is easy to deal with. I think that's what makes a well-balanced difficulty level.

That's why things like the revenant and baron stand out to me as things to give feedback on, because they're not really putting pressure on the player.


No, no, don't get me wrong, I DO REALLY like your comments (every feedback), I need them and I agree with you all of the time. Just I feel bad for being so naive or so soft sometimes, cause I feel my time has passed, but I want to feel that I offer "something" (wads) in order players have fun playing those maps cause I want to remember what I did so long time ago, maybe it is just a dream (what I remember) but I feel very happy building wads.

You are right and your feedback is good, with common sense (in DOOM world), always offering options, honest, and with respect (I think testing deserve the same respect, or more)... but to balance a map is NOT (for me) so easy, you have to balance challange, ammo, health and player fun... That is why is a "hell" creating this entertainment, but I LOVE to do it, really.

You make my day when you test a map and give me feedback and a smile is painted in my face seeing your demos (and other tester: rdwpa)... that is why I am so happy when you give me comments, give solutions and feedback, cause I need testers... And I see you as a "friend" having fun.

No, I will make the maps better cause I enjoy every minute of YOUR fun playing them. I have to learn a lot and with your help, I WILL, I think.

Thank you, really.


***************

EDIT/UPDATED/may/4th...

At OP you have another wad for your testing and comments. Kaoss10. Just implemented HMP. :)

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Some images from Kaoss10.wad... :)




At OP you have Kaoss10.wad for your testing and comments. Just implemented HMP. :)

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Doble post, sorry (I hate it)... but...

I just want to say here that I am working on the 10 maps, now putting them all together in a single pwad... I have been busy with &%$$&&& work, but... I have managed to get some time off to retouch maps, double check maps, and those things... (I guess that being out Doom2016 there will be less activity in classic doom or maybe not, I don't know)

I include in spoiler some images -from Kaoss1 to Kaoss6- in order not to make a big post with several images...

I have already 6 maps into the main pwad, all with skill levels now implemented, and I THINK that following your wise suggestions.

From Kaoss 1 to Kaoss 6... 4 more to go... (If I just had more time off I will end all this in a week or so but... real life sometimes is a pain, hahahah.) Anyway, in spoiler you have some images of the maps now included in main pwad.

Spoiler

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I look forward to it.

In the meantime, here's an amusing FDA of kaoss10.

I couldn't figure out how to get up to the blue door, and then I managed to end my attempt at the level in the really funny way (I thought it was going to be a great secret, after all that work!).

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Benjogami said:

I look forward to it.

In the meantime, here's an amusing FDA of kaoss10.

I couldn't figure out how to get up to the blue door, and then I managed to end my attempt at the level in the really funny way (I thought it was going to be a great secret, after all that work!).


You managed to get into that closet!!! :OOOO Never thought that was even possible, I guess that if you hear a door opening and closing you want to know what's in it, LOL, also my bad because I had in mind a player "route" but you had your own way, so that will be fixed...

On the other hand, I think you had troubles with blue door because -as I saw in your fda- you missed this (in spoiler in case someone did not want to know what you missed), maybe in the thrill of killing your eyes played a trick on you, but you never activated that... (at least that is what I saw in your fda):

Spoiler

I will keep working on them... :) (Agh, there is always something to retouch, hahahaha)

And thanks for your time and play testing!!

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Doble post, sorry.
******
First of all: Thank you for testing them.

Please, check playability, mistakes, things that don’t work as intented, and/or anything that is not fun to play. As you know I have being following your suggestions to improve the maps. And thank you!

I have being testing them and see no mistakes, but you know... nobody is perfect. ;-)

This DOOM2 maps have been build with Doom Builder, option BOOM, and tested with zdoom, and –for me- everything works fine. It is ok to use (if you want) lookup and lookdown option... Do not “mega run”, do not crouch, or anything like that... as I say just lookup and lookdown it is ok, cause I have not design the maps for anything else. I mean I want them to be vanilla compatible.

You can play now 10 maps, all together, from map1 to map10 in that single wad.

Kaoss.wad (3.417KB)

Before I upload Kaoss.wad to be oficially in doomgame/igdames, I would like you to test these 10 maps, in case you find mistakes, not fun areas, textures, wrong areas, the order of the maps (maybe map7 could go before map4, you know), and/or anything you think might be improved. Last round of testing, I think.

These maps: No multiplayer YET (I have to plan carefully that after your last single player testing). Deathmatch will NOT be implemented cause of the size and structure of the maps.

Maybe some maps are a little “mixed-style”, but also, I have tried to keep –more or less- some general style in each map, of course in Vanilla Doom -in some maps- they also mixed several styles, so I think is not so bad what I have done with textures and rooms and styles.

Some maps are a little labyrinthine, but, well, part of the fun is to find your way out, heh.

All maps. Single Player: Yes. Difficulty Settings: Yes. No new sound, no new grafics and no new music.

(All maps from scratch except map9, that I have used some old map I had and rebuilt it almost entirely and ending of map 10 that I used an area of a very old map too.)

Some screenshots:
MAP1

Spoiler

MAP2
Spoiler

MAP3
Spoiler

MAP4
Spoiler

MAP5
Spoiler

MAP6
Spoiler

MAP7
Spoiler

MAP8
Spoiler

MAP9
Spoiler

MAP10
Spoiler

Again, thank you for testing them and hope you have FUN.

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Here's a FDA for the first level:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/vy5df77xnucm6x1/kaoss-01-deadwing%282%29.rar

It wasn't bad, but I think there's a lot of room for improvements. Some suggestions which IMO would improve the experience (you don't have to agree, of course haha):

-> Detailing is simple, but I liked. Still I think I would add some little more decoration and increase lighting contrast (make bright area brighter and dark areas darker).

-> The rooms layout felt a bit boring. Most of them are boxy and 128 height. I know it is hard to run away from this sometimes, but it is always good to keep the player interested with different layouts and cool intersections.

-> Map layout could have a lot more cohesion, there's a lot of switch hunt, progression is quite linear and it feels random. Later rooms looks much better than earlier ones. IMO, try to make things more interconnected instead of isolated "room -> room" mapstyle.

-> Gameplay balance was really inconsistent too. First half of level was like 99% hitscans, where you got no health and armor. When you tried new monsters, and added some health, things became more fun. I'm surprised I was able to survive with always < 50 health (in other words, balance is good in the second half :P)

-> I liked that you let lots of foes roam around the level. This isn't something very common on this kind of level.

-> Custom music, plz! (you CAN use Dooms music, but a different one of D_RUNNING :P)

Ok, let's try second level :P

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FDA for the second level:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/gxhx3nzxgbr4nct/kaoss-2-deadwing.rar

Couldn't finish it, because of a gamebreaking bug on prboom, where I can't open a certain door. I checked on Doom Builder and looks like there's another linedef with an action close to that door, which blocks the player from opening it on certain sources ports.

Anyway, this is a big improvement compared with the first level hahaha Level detailing is good: Clean but good, the way I like it haha There's some texturing bugs on some doors, but it's a minor issue.

Progression is a lot better and more interesting. There's some interesting interconnections too which was cool, though I think this can be improved further. Also, gameplay balance was good, a bit on easy side but far from boring (yeah, I died, but I'm not a good player :P)

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I'm 4 levels in.

The first level could've used more detail in a couple of areas. Rest of the levels so far have been a definite improvement, though.

There's been occasional issues with being able to clearly see enemies set to deaf around corners and killing them before they even have a chance to react.

This area in MAP03 has a HOM effect on the floor.

Other than that, it's pretty good so far. There's a chance this might be one of the few PWADs I finish since it's only 10 maps long.

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THANK you, Deadwing and MrSkeltal, for testing and playing and offering feedback!

I have seen your FDA, Deadwing, you are playing in UV, so it is good to see level skills is working, great! (I always do testing in HMP, and in some maps in "ITYTD" and some in UV cause it is hard sometimes to calibrate when you go soft and when you go too hard, well, you players know more than me in creating maps hahahah... anyway...

I have seen in your FDA -as you have played map1- that maybe it is a little confusing -map1- and you are right, I was shy in first middle/quarter of the map cause I was planning to get the player into the mood of my way of thinking maps (classic, I know, hahaha), so yes, I will check your comments... hmm cohesion... always that thing... You are right... but I remember original maps were a BIT of mixture without any reason, but yes, now is 2016 and more cohesion is needed... aghhh... I will kill you (rocketlauncher, of course) cause it is a lot of work, but I will try to improve that.

Details in map1, yes... yes, yes.

About the enemies roaming around... well, if you know how much testing involves that, you would not believe it, I am crazy about that... and knowing as the enemies move (more or less) I spend hours trying to determine their paths and changing things... in order the player always have a "surprise" if the player moves north he will find this, or if the player moves east the "free" enemies will do that... It is crazy the hours I spend with this "imp-terrarium", hahahaha.

Music. Ok, I do not want to break any law or copyright about music or anything else, any lawyer in the airplane? hahahah, ok, I can change music if there is a legal way to do it, without breaking any law or copyright, of course. And I do not know anything about it (law I mean, hahah).

Oooh, how it is possible? The line you got stuck was 16 (grid 16) apart from the other line... I understood that 8grid creates problems in prboom, but those lines were 16 apart, ok, ok... I will fix it... but I imagine I have more maps with this problem aghhh I hate portals... ahahah... just joking.

Thank you for playing and comments.

@MrSkeltal

Yes, I will change that in map1, you -both- are right. Ohmy... I have checked the map you say it has a HOM, I do not know what is wrong... floor same height, tested, recheck and nothing I see, double check textures, floor heights, both -light and floor-, nothing... Dunno... some expert in software needed, hahah, cause I see nothing in the editor, in the tests, or playing it. AND I see your pic with the HOM, so, no idea. Any uberexpert in the airplane? hahahah.

I hope you have fun playing all 10 maps, that is my goal. :-)

Thank you for playing and comments.

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I really liked that "roaming" feature in your levels haha It's something people doesn't use much in these kind of levels, I guess even pros normally prefer to have 100% monster behavior control. (which usually makes things more predictable for me)

About coherence, well, it's hard to say, because I don't really know what is hahah Still, I think it has more to do about the level itself being a whole one integrated thing instead of lots of rooms separated by doors and different textures. It doesn't need to be a "logical thing". As you said, the original levels doesn't make any sense with reality, but the level elements feels like pieces of a bigger picture, they have what I would call a "theme" that connects the whole thing. It doesn't need to be "a mars techbase" or "hellish temple", but something abstract like, "underground brown texture facility", or "central courtyard with BRICK01 texture". I'm not really sure though, just thinking more about it :P

Still, I have to play the other levels and see how things progressed.

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