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Mogul

Romero releases another new map: E1M4B

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T-Rex said:

The new maps Romero made were just fun and still capture the feeling of nostalgia. Now it would be awesome if Tom Hall were to consider making some E2 replacements, without the Sandy Petersen alterations and of course without the Doom Bible implementations.


I'd rather see Sandy Petersen remake all of Doom 1.

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rileymartin said:

I'd rather see Sandy Petersen remake all of Doom 1.

Nah, I find most of his maps drab, uninspiring, and the gameplay was somewhat dubious. The only maps by Sandy that were playable and made sense were the ones that were originally by Tom Hall, though there were a few original maps that were decent if not as good as Romero's maps.

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It has been years since Petersen did a Doom map so how would you know if he wouldn't change his style since then?

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Hmmmmm, you made a good point there, though to be fair, most of us think of incoherent themes, random aesthetics, and experimental concepts when we think of Petersen. Even so, it would still be awesome if Tom Hall were to make some new Doom maps as well, since even if he hadn't contributed much to Doom, and left id prior to its release, he at least contributed something, and who knows, maybe even his style of mapping now would be different from the Wolfenstein 3D style that his name is associated with.

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While I think it's cool Romero has released new maps, are they really THAT much better than the various cool maps other talented map makers have released over the years? I also feel that his 2 new maps don't feel much like the originals in terms of visual design, perhaps because he probably made them using much more advanced tools. They don't have the classic vibe to them for some reason.

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Avoozl said:

It has been years since Petersen did a Doom map so how would you know if he wouldn't change his style since them?

Does it matter? No one worried about that when Romero released his new wads either. I'm pretty sure, most people would highly appreciate any new wads from the original crew regardless of the style they might choose.

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LogicDeLuxe said:

Does it matter? No one worried about that when Romero released his new wads either. I'm pretty sure, most people would highly appreciate any new wads from the original crew regardless of the style they might choose.

T-Rex was speaking of how badly they thought Sandy did their maps and all I'm simply saying is how they might not wind up the same way since then, but of course I don't think it would matter if he did change his style or not.

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40oz said:

No matter what you say, making Doom maps 20 years ago and then returning to make Doom maps again 20+ years later is a pretty remarkable thing. This isn't a "hey look what I can do" publicity stunt. Hes giving us a gift because he wants our help. And rightfully so; we've been playing his game for this long, haven't we? And hes listened to us and answered our questions enthusiastically and talks vividly about Doom. Not many video game designers are so committed to their fans.


First of all, Doom is not "his" game.

Secondly, not many video game designers have had their reputation tarnished as much as John Romero. Ever since Daïkatana, the man has been subjected to much ridicule and is still often dismissed as a loudmouthed has-been who is desperately clinging to his heyday of a game made over twenty years ago.

And I am not saying that because I do not like John Romero. However, we cannot deny the fact that his career took a nosedive after his departure from Id.

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it's a bit of a weird thing to care about to be brutally honest

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JohnnyTheWolf said:

First of all, Doom is not "his" game.

Secondly, not many video game designers have had their reputation tarnished as much as John Romero. Ever since Daïkatana, the man has been subjected to much ridicule and is still often dismissed as a loudmouthed has-been who is desperately clinging to his heyday of a game made over twenty years ago.

And I am not saying that because I do not like John Romero. However, we cannot deny the fact that his career took a nosedive after his departure from Id.


Well, maybe with Adrian's help he can climb out of that and become more like how he was in ID. I say give him a chance, at least wait until the demo comes out before leaping to judgment. We'll see how he does.

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MetroidJunkie said:

Well, maybe with Adrian's help he can climb out of that and become more like how he was in ID.


Hopefully. Again, I have nothing against the guy and I wish him the best.

I say give him a chance, at least wait until the demo comes out before leaping to judgment. We'll see how he does.


I do not think I have lept to judgement here: I just said I was not impressed by E1M4b and I do not believe John Romero is above criticism, which apparently caused a few to flip out. I have not complained about BLACKROOM.

But yeah, I am glad they are planning to release a demo.

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Doom is just as much his as it is anyone else's from id software who worked on it. So yes, it's his.

And sure lets talk about Daikatana again, I'm sure no one has ever heard of it ever. Go ahead enlighten me.

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JohnnyTheWolf said:

Hopefully. Again, I have nothing against the guy and I wish him the best.


Only a shame Tom Hall and John Carmack couldn't offer assistance in the project, it would be like the video game equivalent of an old band coming back together.

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MetroidJunkie said:

For the record, it's real.

I hear that version is actually okay, probably because of the limitations of the Gameboy.


It is. Got the cartridge right here. I think it might have only been released in Europe?

There is some funny Engrish stuff in there. "Superfly don't use" is a phrase I'll quote forever. Other than that it's absolutely solid. Controls are responsive, no companion jank (you basically just switch between characters)... it basically plays like a Link's Awakening clone with a greater focus on combat at the expense of exploration, as it's largely linear.

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T-Rex said:

Now it would be awesome if Tom Hall were to consider making some E2 replacements, without the Sandy Petersen alterations and of course without the Doom Bible implementations.

I'd love to see that as well. And, of course I would say this, I'd like to see Mr. McGee make some new Doom levels too. I'm sure that will never happen though.

rileymartin said:

I'd rather see Sandy Petersen remake all of Doom 1.

Ooh, 3 Episodes worth of first person pen and paper dungeons!...

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Fun map, I liked it. Definitely easier than the first map though.

I also personally like the look of all the cracks, despite being apparently controversial.

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nxGangrel said:

3 Episodes worth of first person pen and paper dungeons!...

I have no idea whether you mean that in a good way or a bad way.

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Played this last night, and once again I enjoyed Romero's creation. No complaints this time around, and was particularly impressed with the Spectre encounter just before the end in how surprisingly difficult it was. Really liked the detailing with the "cracks" and the use of silent monster closet openings, and in general how the level changed as it went on. Good gameplay flow is certainly something Romero knows how to do.

Now I'd like to see Romero do an entire episode full of maps in Ultimate Doom!

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I've played this on UV. Not as great as E1M8b, but I really enjoyed how the environment changes every time you progress. The use of former seargeants and traps is fantastic and the map itself was challenging. Died four times and I was force to use saves on the fifth attempt. My only real problem was that it didn't have any geometry that really stood out.

Gonna play again till' get I get 100% completion.

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Suitepee said:

Now I'd like to see Romero do an entire episode full of maps in Ultimate Doom!


Wouldn't say no to that! I especially like the interactive aspect of his recent maps. Areas changing, monsters attacking you from several directions at once, etc.

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Danfun64 said:

I have no idea whether you mean that in a good way or a bad way.

Both. As much as I love first person dungeon crawlers and that style of design in Doom, that would be incredibly bland and dull. I'd probably quit half way into episode 1 if it didn't have anything interesting to offer.

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I'd love to see him release another 7 to truly tie up E1 to match the new maps, a sort of "What I could have done" take on his classic E1.

And that just makes me wonder about a modern Tom Hall E2 and a modern Sandy Petersen E3.

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Definitely easier than e1m8b. The cracks... I could take 'em or leave 'em. generally I don't like traps that I can't escape from but as someone said, they look pretty dangerous. The trouble is my first inclination of to explore everything, so when I jumped down one & died I got the message. :P It's funny it took me longest to find the secret that I thought would have been the easiest to spot, it was the one with the startan door near the entrance. Overall pretty cool to see Romero mapping again I hope there's more to come.

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Honestly if we're gonna bring up Tom Hall I'd really rather he just make Anachronox 2 more than anything else.

JohnnyTheWolf said:

First of all, Doom is not "his" game.

Secondly, not many video game designers have had their reputation tarnished as much as John Romero. Ever since Daïkatana, the man has been subjected to much ridicule and is still often dismissed as a loudmouthed has-been who is desperately clinging to his heyday of a game made over twenty years ago.

And I am not saying that because I do not like John Romero. However, we cannot deny the fact that his career took a nosedive after his departure from Id.


Holy fucking shit Daikatana was 16 goddamn years ago were you even alive back then? Get a grip.

(PS Daikatana GBC is actually pretty good.)

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