Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
joeking

Another old school Doom player's opinion on the new Doom ...

Recommended Posts

I've been a DooM fan since the very beginning. I remember the night sleeping over at a friends house and watching his father (he was one of those "cool dads") coming in the room and letting us experience the shareware on a 486DX. We spent the next year playing Doom co-op over 56K modems, DWANGO and even Doom with virtual reality headsets at a LAN center. I had a copy of the Doom Bible, did my fare share of .wad building and even attended several Quakecons. Doom was the first PC game I ever played and will remain my ATF.

I'm as pumped for this game as the next fan but after seeing the overwhelmingly negative reviews and criticism circulating the Internet, I decided to take my day off and watch as much footage and streams as I could so I could form my own opinion and share it. Unfortunately, after hours of watching, I can say that I'm not really impressed and more so disappointed. Before I go any further, it appears most of this footage is on console. Some of my gripes may be alleviated by playing on the PC version.

I want to break this down into 5 categories: Graphics, Sound, Animaton/Physics, Gameplay and finally Multiplayer. Here we go:

Graphics:

From what I've seen, to me, the game appears a little to colorful and bright. I was expecting more of a darker, atmospheric tone reminiscent of Doom 3. I think the brighter, more colorful tone takes away from the premise of the game, fighting a demonic invasion from Hell.

The particle effects are lacking. There should be way more blood spewing out when your mowing these things down. Instead, I see a hyper-fast blood spurt that dissapates instantly. It looks unrealistic and a bit cartoonish.

There seems to be an apparent lack of shadows too. The lighting has a static tone to it that distracts from the immersion. Kind of a step backwards from Doom 3.

Sound:

The futuristic, electronic-metal queues are a welcome addition. I think they did a great job with that because it just sounds badass and makes the gameplay more exciting. I also like the futuristic sound effects. It convinces me I'm playing (watching rather) a next-generation game.

I do think there's work to be done though. A bit of reverb and occlusion can go a long way in terms of the immersion factor and so far, I've noticed none. Like the graphics, everything sounds very static. Even some simple pitch changes would be welcome. With regards to pitch, the demons sound whiney and alienish. I would prefer more of a deeper, bellowing, bassy roars and grunts. Also, I noticed a lack of audio feedback as you are shooting these monsters. It's there, but there needs to be more IMO.

Animation/Physics:

This is my biggest gripe about this game. The fluidity of the animations, for lack of a better term, are awful. It feels like everything is too "sped up". For a game trying to sell itself as a pure shootemup gore fest, there is some work to be done here. They needed to animate more frames to kind of smooth things out. They did do a good job with the hand/hud animations and weapon handling. But as far as shooting, I'm not seeing the visceral impact, or not enough of it really. For example, when I'm shooting a Mancubus with a chain gun at 2000 RPM, I want to see flinching, blood spurts, chunks flying, real-time model deformation. Instead, I see a static model soaking bullets until it either highlights blue or falls apart into an underwhelming "gibbed" animation. Speaking of gibs, I hate how demons just fall apart into chunks. I want to see gibs flying across the room with blood trails. There needs to be some sort of acceleration or dynamic processing if you will in place.

Gameplay:

This is kind of a mixed category but the main point is the immersion factor. I understand it's your "Praetor Suit" displaying information on-screen but the whole highlighting, icons popping out of corpses thing totally breaks down any immersion I'm having while playing. It makes me feel like I'm playing some cheap, arcade game. The visual style they chose needs to be toned down, taken out or reimplemented. Simplicity can go a long way.

I'm not a big fan of the level design either, specifically the "arena" type checkpoints. Again, immersion. Instead of me feeling like I'm sprawling through a Mars base or unholy domain, I feel like I'm playing into a lazily executed developer vision of "how to appeal to Doom fans in 2016". Let's just make a checkpoint and spawn demons 360 degrees and let the mindless mayhem ensue. Got a rush? Okay, good. Let's continue to the next "arena". Good level design should incorporate both realistic/plausible locales AND action packed gameplay. So far I feel like this game is a cubish, gauntlet.

Multiplayer:

Nothing innovative here and I was wholeheartingly expecting this from Day 1 reveal. It's 2016, you have to bring something new to the table. For example, the developers are really pushing the acrobatic aspects of the gameplay like double-jump and fast movement. Let's take it a step further. Let me quick shoulder peek corners. Let me do a barrel roll or dolphin dive on the floor. Let me jump in the air and hulk smash somebody with both fists. I want to sprint charge into someone and knock them down. Give me something more dynamic other then WASD and jump.

Again, the immersion factor is not there. My personal vision of the next generation of Doom would be darker, more realistic, more visceral, more impactful. More similar to Doom 3. I feel like this game was held back by simultaneous development on consoles. It's fairly obvious how much they've dialed back (or lack of implementing) in regards to details. Hopefully, the PC version alleviates some of my concerns.

Share this post


Link to post

You had me until you started describing your vision for multi player. The last thing we need in that area is more bullshit and animations, there's too much needless fluff already thanks to them trying to appeal to the modern idiotic shooter market. When instead it SHOULD be going back to its arena roots.

Everything else you said was good though. I'm not hating the art style however. While it could be darker I think it's well done.

Share this post


Link to post

Well, the original games were very colorful. I am glad they moved on from the gray metal corridors of Doom 3.

I don't agree with what you wrote but at least you put in some thought in what your analysis, unlike other internet users!

Share this post


Link to post
joeking said:

Graphics:

From what I've seen, to me, the game appears a little to colorful and bright. I was expecting more of a darker, atmospheric tone reminiscent of Doom 3. I think the brighter, more colorful tone takes away from the premise of the game, fighting a demonic invasion from Hell.


I think this is more of a personal thing, I would've liked to see something darker too, for example I always thought that Doom 64 had a better atmosphere, I don't know what the majority of the community thinks, but if most fans prefer the atmosphere of the classic style then it's understandable they'd choose the classic style, because the developers will always choose to please the majority in this sense, so it's more likely that we won't get a darker version of Doom ever again, unless the majority starts demanding a darker atmosphere for some reason.

joeking said:

The particle effects are lacking. There should be way more blood spewing out when your mowing these things down. Instead, I see a hyper-fast blood spurt that dissapates instantly. It looks unrealistic and a bit cartoonish.


You mean like in Brutal Doom? That's what comes to my mind when I read what you say here, I admit the gory effects on Brutal are good, maybe too exaggerated, but something more subtle and similar to that would've been more pleasing than what we got.

joeking said:

This is kind of a mixed category but the main point is the immersion factor. I understand it's your "Praetor Suit" displaying information on-screen but the whole highlighting, icons popping out of corpses thing totally breaks down any immersion I'm having while playing. It makes me feel like I'm playing some cheap, arcade game. The visual style they chose needs to be toned down, taken out or reimplemented. Simplicity can go a long way.


I agree, but I wouldn't worry about the information on the screen and the item highlighting too much, because as far as I know you can turn off HUd notifications and item highlighting if you want, I've seen snapmap gameplay videos that don't display item highlighting.

I agree with you on the pinata effect, it's distracting and it looks really bad because it makes the demons seem less deadly, as if they were meant to be helpful when they aren't really meant to be, I think this will clearly break the immersion for many people.

Share this post


Link to post

The funny thing is how most of these concerns about the game's decal/lightning/model/world overall quality being generally subpar in the footage shown have nothing to do with the PC version where there's literally a huge list of toggeable video/gameplay options planned for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Almonds said:

The funny thing is how most of these concerns about the game's decal/lightning/model/world overall quality being generally subpar in the footage shown have nothing to do with the PC version where there's literally a huge list of toggeable video/gameplay options planned for it.


Do you know if the pinata effect can be disabled?

Share this post


Link to post

If glory kill body glows can be seemingly turned off then I don't see a reason at all why they wouldn't make the drops less visually intrusive while they're at it.

Share this post


Link to post
joeking said:

Again, the immersion factor is not there. My personal vision of the next generation of Doom would be darker, more realistic, more visceral, more impactful. More similar to Doom 3. I feel like this game was held back by simultaneous development on consoles. It's fairly obvious how much they've dialed back (or lack of implementing) in regards to details. Hopefully, the PC version alleviates some of my concerns.


Why do people obsess over DarkDoom(TM)? I don't understand, its like nobody actually plays the original Doom anymore. Doom 3? Seriously? You realize that from the beginning the new Doom was supposed to be similar to the originals? Have you played Doom 1 & 2 recently? I have. The dark, horror themed areas can be counted on two hands.

For fucks sake, I cannot believe you used IMMERSION in a fucking sentence with DOOM. I swear all these kids are raised on Doom 3 or something.

Doom is adrenaline fueled combat where you decide which enemy you take down next. Its not another generic ass horror game.

Share this post


Link to post
Ironhound said:

For fucks sake, I cannot believe you used IMMERSION in a fucking sentence with DOOM. I swear all these kids are raised on Doom 3 or something.


The original Doom games were very immersive for their time. The music, art direction and level design is very memorable so I don't see why someone can't find Doom immersive.

We don't need another Doom 3 though. What they showed in the SP Stream was still pretty damn dark, without going into "can't see shit" territory like Doom 3. Also the original flashlight mechanic there was one of the dumbest design decisions to grace an FPS.

Share this post


Link to post
rileymartin said:

The original Doom games were very immersive for their time. The music, art direction and level design is very memorable so I don't see why someone can't find Doom immersive.

We don't need another Doom 3 though. What they showed in the SP Stream was still pretty damn dark, without going into "can't see shit" territory like Doom 3. Also the original flashlight mechanic there was one of the dumbest design decisions to grace an FPS.

The shadows from doom 3 were nice though, even if they were overly dark.

Share this post


Link to post

For me DOOM is a Kind of a Horrorgame.
My first experience with DOOM was on the PlayStation one, and later played the Nintendo64 Version oft the Game.
Aubrey Hodges music changed the game, and made a scary and creepy atmosphere.

Share this post


Link to post

Classic Doom stopped being scary after the 90s and nearly nothing can make it scary again. The game has more longevity as a gory combat game over a dark horror. Another Doom 3 is not needed, besides it's quite possible to have horror segments and dark corridors within the Campaign anyway.

It's funny as my viewpoints are nearly the complete opposite of the OP. I approve of the graphics, admire the animations, satisfied with the Multiplayer and love the mechanics. The sound side might be lacking a bit, but I'm fine with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Chezza said:

Classic Doom stopped being scary after the 90s and nearly nothing can make it scary again. The game has more longevity as a gory combat game over a dark horror. Another Doom 3 is not needed, besides it's quite possible to have horror segments and dark corridors within the Campaign anyway.

Funny as my viewpoints of the OP's post is nearly completely opposite. I approve of the graphics, admire the animations, satisfied with the Multiplayer and love the mechanics. The sound side might be lacking a bit, but I'm fine with it.

I'd say some horror could be probably be had on some of the backstory of former human enemies depending what the codexs say on them (and or how detailed they are). Will probably try collecting those the first time around when the game is finally released. Wouldn't be the scary type of horror though.

Share this post


Link to post

I don't know, the classic doom spooked the hell out of me back then. I was about twelve years old, and never, ever saw something that scared me as much on a PC screen.

It's hard to explain, it's a different "scare" than nowadays. It was just "so much" you have never seen before in a game. So much cruelty, corpses, icons...

I remember how E3M1 really got onto me from the very first second when I realized "god damn, this level is made out of flesh...".

I also didn't came in contact with splatter and stuff like that like after I played Doom, so that might also be a reason.

Nowadays, all of these themes have been beaten to death in oh so many games that it's hard to come up with something new, OR go the way of absolute jumpscare stuff, which to me is a completely different type of "horror" (not the one that gets into your mind).

It's like when you read Lovecraft for the very first time. Nothing after that will be like that very first read and what happens in your head.

Thus, I don't expect Doom 2016 to come even remotely close to what I experienced back with Doom, because it simply is not possible, as I have seen it all now oh so many times.

Share this post


Link to post

I have the feeling that some of you are missing the point here, because it's not like the OP is talking about gameplay when he refers to Doom 3, I think that's why he hasn't mentioned Doom 3 when he has talked about gameplay, actually he mentioned Doom 3 regarding graphics, so he must be refering to the art style instead, but I would agree with the people who say they don't like that art style for a game like Doom, because I don't either and not just because of a matter of personal taste, it's because I think that the gameplay mechanics of Doom require certain amount of decent illumination.

Share this post


Link to post
joeking said:

I've been a DooM fan since the very beginning.
...
I want to break this down into 5 categories: Graphics, Sound, Animaton/Physics, Gameplay and finally Multiplayer. Here we go:


My two cents (as an old school player).

GRAPHICS
I agree, IMHO DOOM 2016 is (only a bit) too cartoonish. No problems with colors, but I think viewport is a little too "clean": it would be nice if it were more "dirty" during action (e.g like Killzone 2) with more particle effects and less saturation.
Another aspect that does not convince me (but I hope on PC it will be better) is the quality of some textures at close range.

SOUND
Nothing to say: I love both music and SFX.

ANIMATION
Nothing to say: I like it. A little more "impact-effect" would be surely nicer, but not a big deal IMHO.

GAMEPLAY
It seems very good, I really like it. Some sections seem too "easy" on video but I'm sure during play it will be different (or, simply, I'll play at higher difficulty). I also like level design: surely it's not like older DOOMs but I think it serves well the nature of the game.

MULTIPLAYER
I don't care if it is innovative or not: it was VERY entertaining and that's it: love it.

So, my only complaints are in the graphics section: I simply hope textures will be better. For the rest: I'll turn down brightness and up film grain, and I should be on the go.

Share this post


Link to post
Ironhound said:

Why do people obsess over DarkDoom(TM)? I don't understand, its like nobody actually plays the original Doom anymore. Doom 3? Seriously? You realize that from the beginning the new Doom was supposed to be similar to the originals? Have you played Doom 1 & 2 recently? I have. The dark, horror themed areas can be counted on two hands.

For fucks sake, I cannot believe you used IMMERSION in a fucking sentence with DOOM. I swear all these kids are raised on Doom 3 or something.

Doom is adrenaline fueled combat where you decide which enemy you take down next. Its not another generic ass horror game.

you have no idea what you're talking about son

the classic doom games had a great immersion for their age and are very atmospheric - same goes for doom3 (I'm currently re-playing doom1 and doom3) - doom3 still has the best atmosphere imo - and doom3 is a fucking awesome game with a shit ton of lovely details and secrets, it only lacks of monsters and that's where the new doom kicks in - it looks like doom3 with oldschool doom models + monstermasses

Share this post


Link to post
rileymartin said:

The original Doom games were very immersive for their time. The music, art direction and level design is very memorable so I don't see why someone can't find Doom immersive.

We don't need another Doom 3 though. What they showed in the SP Stream was still pretty damn dark, without going into "can't see shit" territory like Doom 3. Also the original flashlight mechanic there was one of the dumbest design decisions to grace an FPS.

there are "can't see shit" parts in the classics too

and the flashlight or weapon thing was one of the best things in doom 3, it's like saying "rage is bad because of the driving/racing stuff"

Share this post


Link to post
Almonds said:

If glory kill body glows can be seemingly turned off then I don't see a reason at all why they wouldn't make the drops less visually intrusive while they're at it.


And, if you don't like pinata drops, apparently SnapMap has the option to throttle that.

Share this post


Link to post
MetroidJunkie said:

And, if you don't like pinata drops, apparently SnapMap has the option to throttle that.

I wonder if that can be done as a selective thing so you can still get drops from the possessed humans with weapons.

Share this post


Link to post

I have to say for the immersion issue, I found myself zoned out and sucked into the gameplay big time. Especially on the GameSpot video. It made me realize I'm going to be completely pulled into the game when I'm playing through it which was something that made me confirm that this is going to be a quality game to me. Maybe not everyone got that, but it really pulled me into it. Especially in the gore nest sectionjs. Looks like almost too much fun :D

Share this post


Link to post

Actually straight out the bat, I notice the biggest problem with this game is this game once again has vanishing enemy corpses like in Doom 3 it kills off any sense of satisfaction or any indication that you may have been there already which creates alot of confusion which leads to players getting lost very easily because every area would appear to be like any new area without the enemies.

Share this post


Link to post
Jannak said:

doesn't stay 100% true to the original game


Why is anybody expecting the game to stay 100% true to the original? Do you also want to remove free aiming and jumping because the original Doom did not have it?

Share this post


Link to post
hardcore_gamer said:

Why is anybody expecting the game to stay 100% true to the original? Do you also want to remove free aiming and jumping because the original Doom did not have it?


I guess I need to be careful what I say here. Well I also edited my post as well.

Share this post


Link to post

I totally disagree. You said you're an oldschool DOOM fan but you want this DOOM to be like DOOM 3, so i doubt that you're an oldschool DOOM fan because DOOM I and II were colorful and bright too and you complain that this is in the new DOOM lol. You already talked about the graphics and then you begin about visuals in your gameplay opinion Animatins are awful? I think you need your eyes checked. About your opinion about the multiplayer, this is DOOM if you want the multiplayer be like Halo 5 go play Halo 5. Sorry i can't take this thread seriously.

Share this post


Link to post

When I read that it does not support campaign co-op, especially since the mechanics are not complicated, I was very disappointed, so this will almost definitely be a no purchase for me. Not unless it is truly an amazing experience, then more likely that a mod like Doom 3 LMS will come out to support co-op, so will get it on the cheap in a year or 2.

Share this post


Link to post
Krimson Madness said:

You said you're an oldschool DOOM fan but you want this DOOM to be like DOOM 3, so i doubt that you're an oldschool DOOM fan because DOOM I and II were colorful and bright too and you complain that this is in the new DOOM lol.

It is perfectly possible to have been a fan of the original PC Doom, then later falling in love with Doom 64, because it had a darker colour scheme (and it being OP's preference), and then even later liking Doom 3's colour scheme for similar reasons.

I don't agree with OP on this point because I'm primarily a fan of original PC Doom and it was more vibrant than Doom 64 and Doom 3. The new Doom captures classic PC Doom's vibrancy very well I think (I also think it manages to still be dark and gritty enough to match the Hell invasion theme), but I can still respect his opinion even if I don't agree with him.

I recommend you try and do the same, and maybe people will be more willing to respect you as well.

Share this post


Link to post

What?! The animations of the enemies are fucking AMAZING! WOW. .And what's the deal with old school Doom fans lately? I mean is it a big deal or something? I'm an old school Doom fan. .so what?

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×