Blackroom Kickstarter Postponed

[Jon]

John Romero and Adrian Carmack's "Blackroom" Kickstarter project has been cancelled, apparently temporarily.

An update released to backers only suggests that the pair have listened to community feedback, specifically requests for some kind of gameplay demo. They go on to say that the time it would take to prepare such a thing would be longer than the time left on the Kickstarter clock; therefore they have cancelled the current project and will start up a new one once a prototype is ready. An anonymous backer has shared a screenshot of the update.

[fraggle]

So... did they essentially [newproject] Romero and Carmack's new game?

EDIT: Obligatory

John Romero, before you start asking for funding for your new mega-cool-and-whatnot Kickstarter, make sure you have something to show first (screenshots, gameplay demo, etc). Keep in mind we've already seen thousands of upcoming projects that actually never got done.

[hardcore_gamer]

I think they probably weren't liking the lack of funds they were getting (wasn't so impressive when I last checked) so they aren't taking any chances. A smart move I would say.

[Jon]

fraggle said:

So... did they essentially [newproject] Romero and Carmack's new game?

The impression I got was that this was a decision by the devs rather than Kickstarter, but I guess they were breaching KS's rules about not having a working prototype, too.

hardcore_gamer said:

I think they probably weren't liking the lack of funds they were getting (wasn't so impressive when I last checked) so they aren't taking any chances. A smart move I would say.

I'm not sure what would be impressive, but it stood at $131,052 (=18%) when it was closed, which was after three days.

[kuchitsu]

Very good decision I think. Glad that they understood it.

[Breezeep]

From what I've heard, they're keeping the Kickstarter postponed until they have a playable demo of their game set up.

[raymoohawk]

the prototype should be a new megawad with romero mapping and adrian doing custom texture work :)

[Doohnibor]

They should do the "REAL DOOM III"

Continuing from where DOOM II ended.
Basically using the same engine with a few "new" features but keep exactly the same old feel.

Add
- 4 new monsters
- 3 new weapons
- 2 new items
- 1 exciting new gameplay element
- 32 levels

use the old artwork and textures as a base and add tons of new stuff with the same look. Adrian is the only one who could ever do that right! and Johns leveldesigns skills are perfect for this.
Add one more person and the team is complete!

It's easy to figure out the rest from there.....


If I were Adrian and John I would talk to Bethesda and make a deal with them.
Noone can lose.
Split the profits.

The Game could be done within a year. It would be a Goldmine while generating very low development costs.

EVERYONE would be happy in the end.
The Developers, the Publisher and especially the GAMERS
As long as noones ego gets in the way of course ; )
and as long as it has the look and feel of the original.
Something like the step from DOOM to DOOM II has been.

HOPING for it to happen! It would be the first game to spend money on since ages ; )

[Spectre01]

Doohnibor said:

They should do the "REAL DOOM III"

Continuing from where DOOM II ended.
Basically using the same engine with a few "new" features but keep exactly the same old feel.

Add
- 4 new monsters
- 3 new weapons
- 2 new items
- 1 exciting new gameplay element
- 32 levels

use the old artwork and textures as a base and add tons of new stuff with the same look.

So you're suggesting they make a PWAD and sell it for money? There are plenty of free partial conversion projects which do what you describe with high quality level design.

fraggle said:

John Romero, before you start asking for funding for your new mega-cool-and-whatnot Kickstarter, make sure you have something to show first (screenshots, gameplay demo, etc). Keep in mind we've already seen thousands of upcoming projects that actually never got done.

Gave me a chuckle m8. 5/5

[Xaser]

TBH this isn't a bad call. I don't suspect it would've missed its fundraising goal, but having a working prototype is a good thing across the board.

I'm cautiously optimistic about the whole thing. Big shoes to fill, but Romero can certainly still map. ;)

[Breeder]

Fans are still sore from the whole Daikatana fiasco, I'm shocked that John tried the same approach again... of course we need a demo!

[Chezza]

fraggle said:

John Romero, before you start asking for funding for your new mega-cool-and-whatnot Kickstarter, make sure you have something to show first (screenshots, gameplay demo, etc). Keep in mind we've already seen thousands of upcoming projects that actually never got done.

LOL, I actually laughed out loudly.

[Ed]

I honestly think they would be better off if they dropped the idea of a modern standard of graphical fidelity and did a true blue retro shooter. I'm not a retro purist, either. If Romero and co unabashedly constructed a pixelated, sprite based shooter and took the time that would be spent on asset creation for an Unreal Engine blowout to tune the fuck out of the gameplay and make the presented ideas work within the confines of a game that looks like it's out of 1995, they would be golden and it would generate more buzz than another modern shooter with retro mechanics.

That is what people want from Romero. Black Sabbath fans want gloomy, stoner rock that sounds like it was recorded in a basement. John Romero fans want a cartoony, pixelated over the top gore fest.

[kuchitsu]

Are we sure about that? My impression is that a lot of people respect Doom for nostalgic\historical reasons but won't actually play it because in all honesty it looks like pixelated shit to them. No?

[Jon]

Breeder said:

Fans are still sore from the whole Daikatana fiasco, I'm shocked that John tried the same approach again... of course we need a demo!

Erm, Daikatana somewhat predated Kickstarter. What are you on about?

[Spectre01]

kuchitsu said:

Are we sure about that? My impression is that a lot of people respect Doom for nostalgic\historical reasons but won't actually play it because in all honesty it looks like pixelated shit to them. No?

They could always run one of the GL-based ports and not have it look like pixelated shit. Now before some peckerhead says it looks like blurry shit instead, max all the filters and put HQ3X and it looks nice and sharp.

[Chezza]

kuchitsu said:

Are we sure about that? My impression is that a lot of people respect Doom for nostalgic\historical reasons but won't actually play it because in all honesty it looks like pixelated shit to them. No?

This is sort of my viewpoint on majority of people who blasted Doom's MP demo. They don't actually care enough to research the game or follow the news but still have enough Nostalgia to take the game personally.

[hex11]

Ed said:

I honestly think they would be better off if they dropped the idea of a modern standard of graphical fidelity and did a true blue retro shooter.

Sounds like a "retro indie" game. Could cut the budget by quite a lot too. But probably they want to make flashy modern game, because it's more impressive to casual gamer. Not me though, I like my pixels!

[ReFracture]

fraggle said:

So... did they essentially [newproject] Romero and Carmack's new game?

EDIT: Obligatory

Oh man I'm dying over here.

I was reading an article before it was postponed that showed charts from various other kickstarter projects. (I can't find it now :() Many that were at the same point this one was when they postponed it did not meet their goal or did just barely at the very end, such as Descent for example: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/descendentstudios/descent-underground/description

Blackroom was doing even worse at the same point.. so it looked pretty grim to me.

Unless you're doing something that the industry is completely starved of and has a demand for (Star Citizen I guess) or when you get huge names with many shipped titles like Koji Igarashi of Castlevania fame or Keji Inafune of Mega Man fame who want to make another game in the vein they are famous for do you meet or blow the funding out of the water just a few days in with very little to show other than some promises and concept art.

Not that I want to be disrespectful to Romero here.. but a demo should have been obvious. He's not the rockstar game dev he was in the 90s where his name was enough to get people excited, and videos from Randy Pitchford or Cliff Bleszinski rambling on about how great he was for making Doom and Quake isn't really going to do a lot to overcome that.

I'm glad they chose to postpone the kickstarter and take that route. I hope things go smoothly from here on out.

[Tiger]

Good luck to John Romero and Adrian Carmack on their project, I hope this works out for them!

[clarry]

I don't get all the people who say a demo should've been obvious. I understand that people want to bet on a guaranteed win, and they want proof that the game developers "have something", something concrete. But the funding is to *develop* a game, not to release a game that has been already made. And frankly, to properly demo a game, you'll have to have most of it made already. Weapons, monsters, actual levels, with the relevant assets... these all work together to form the visuals and gameplay, they need to be balanced all in unison to make the final gameplay what it is.

Otherwise, all you can create is a mock-up, a vague, remote expression of what the final game might become like. It still takes time and effort to make the mock up, but if you're going to put one together in a couple months, chances are it won't be very good, like the final, polished product. So some people would just be discouraged to support the project. On the other hand, people are going to complain when the final game is not what they saw in the demo. I mean they already complain because games' graphics aren't exactly what they saw in E3?

Rather than wasting time making a mock-up of what the real game won't be, they might as well throw a link to doom and quake and say "something like that".

What I'm saying it's hard to demo a product before you have the product.

People backing kickstarters need to understand that. Yes, it's a bet.

[ReFracture]

I don't disagree with that, but life isn't really fair. Unless you're some sort of super star in the industry you're going to have a hard time unless you have some goods to show off.

[clarry]

Yep, and that's why I'm not running a kickstarter even though I'd like to focus on my game project full time. Nobody knows me.

As far as I am concerned, Romero is a superstar though. At the very least, I know he can make a game. How good it will be is something one can only speculate, and ultimately subjective. No mock-up is going to change that.

[Doohnibor]

rileymartin said:

So you're suggesting they make a PWAD and sell it for money? There are plenty of free partial conversion projects which do what you describe with high quality level design.

The answer to your question is no.

You somehow make it sounds like it would be a bad thing if they would ask for money in case they really created something like that.
There are many different ways to look at this. One of them is: These guys are among the original creators of the game which somehow separates them from all the rest.

Right... there are many TCs PCs etc.... but isn't comparing these works to a new DOOM game by JR and AD somehow like saying. "Hey, I don't care about the possibility of "*insert your favorite music group here*" releasing a new album.... because there are already so many fine coverversions of their songs on youtube?

Again.... what I meant was a new DOOM game the way it would have looked like if it was released maybe two years after DOOM II basically using the same Tech but adding new stuff to the game in a manner like it was done between DOOM and DOOM II
That is the reason why the answer to your question was "no". Not a PWAD. I'm hoping for new IWAD ; )

Adrian Carmacks style remains absolutely unmatched. DOOM, DOOM II and QUAKE 1 would never ever have looked and felt the way they did if it wasn't for him.
And Romeros leveldesign skills are 10/10 when it comes to DOOM - at least in my opinion because I don't care about detail and realism in DOOM.

The REAL DOOM III would be a dream come true - just imagine the cool things they could do ; )

[hex11]

They already made PWAD: Doom episode 4.
Only thing is they didn't follow the standard method and instead had their own patching program you had to use.

[Breeder]

Jon said:

Erm, Daikatana somewhat predated Kickstarter. What are you on about?

I meant in the sense that he is over hyping something without any content to deliver that proves that what he is talking about is more than just a pipe dream.

[Obsidian]

I think this is quite neat, actually. It'll certainly help garner interest and trust from the prospective audience. I'll give the demo a shot when it comes out.

[Xtife]

This is a smart move, though they should have been ready to go before hand.

[Capellan]

clarry said:

I don't get all the people who say a demo should've been obvious. I understand that people want to bet on a guaranteed win, and they want proof that the game developers "have something", something concrete. But the funding is to *develop* a game, not to release a game that has been already made.

Sure. But it's on the DEVS to convince me that they CAN deliver, and that WHAT they deliver is something I want.

Doing that without even having a couple of minutes of in-game footage (which is what "a gameplay demo" actually means in KS-parlance) available is a recipe for failure.

[j4rio]

What's the point of funding it afterwards then? The game is already done once there is something playable to show. Kickstarter at such point would basically be used as a way to regain money developers had to pour in already to create a playable demo. This way nobody without money prior to funding would be able to create anything.