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Deatheye

Why are the new Hellknights...

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.. so small? doom 3 hellknights are huge and intimidating - classic hellknights are even as big as the barons of hell

I love the doom 3 Hellknights and it's out of question the new one got inspired from them, but why are they so fucking small? that really disappoints me

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"classic hellknights are as big as barons"
Wat? They are litterally a recolored sprite of the baron. So small? Check your eyes, they only seem small because theyre contantly moving and the player is constantly backpedalimg considering how lethal they are now, no more are those slow lumbering hellknights from doom 3 that you could easily avoid because they could only walk. If ypu want huge and intimidating go fight a baron.

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I was pretty happy to see they went with the minataur-like barons of hell. I don't mind the hell knights being smaller, to help distinguish them form the barons even further.

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HellVain said:

"classic hellknights are as big as barons"
Wat? They are litterally a recolored sprite of the baron. So small? Check your eyes, they only seem small because theyre contantly moving and the player is constantly backpedalimg considering how lethal they are now, no more are those slow lumbering hellknights from doom 3 that could easily avoid because they couñd only walk.


exactly, they're just lazy recolored versions of the barons, but they're big

and the doom 3 hellknights could throw their demonish fireballs - the new one can't even do that

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In Doom 3, the Hell Knights WERE the Barons of Hell - down to 2 of them coming out of the hell portal, etc.

In Doom 2016 the Hell Knights seem to have been recast back to their Doom 2 status as more of a mid-tier enemy - it seems like they don't even throw fireballs anymore and they act sort of like a big melee-only imp. Instead we have "real" Barons of Hell as big huge miniboss type monsters instead.

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Deatheye said:

exactly, they're just lazy recolored versions of the barons, but they're big

and the doom 3 hellknights could throw their demonish fireballs - the new one can't even do that

Thats because the doom 3 interation was pathetic and easy to kill, you could literaly just dodge every singñe attack from it while you shoot 6 shells. This new iteration as Ling said were demoted to thier original status, from the classic gams, they made them harder to kill by making fast and powerful as you get send back a bit when you get hit by thier glowing fist....my only issue is that thiwe glowing fists are red instead of green. A large slow body which throws very slow projectiles is basically just a bullet sponge.

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You will find out why in the codex information. Don't want to spoil it but if you look closer at the info from the SP streams you can piece it together.

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Maybe it's because the baron is supposed to be more tough, I mean he is meant to have more HP, so the different sizes could be there to hint the player that the baron is tougher than the Hell Knight.

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I think they did a good job to differentiate the two monster types. Hellknight is a faster and more agile melee monster, and Baron of Hell is the powerful mid-tier monster. Basicly taking the role the HK had in Doom3, like Linguica already said.

Xerge said:

I mean he is meant to have more HP, so the different sizes could be there to hint the player that the baron is tougher than the Hell Knight.


Yes, that's obviously the case.

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HellVain said:

Thats because the doom 3 interation was pathetic and easy to kill, you could literaly just dodge every singñe attack from it while you shoot 6 shells. This new iteration as Ling said were demoted to thier original status, from the classic gams, they made them harder to kill by making fast and powerful as you get send back a bit when you get hit by thier glowing fist....my only issue is that thiwe glowing fists are red instead of green. A large slow body which throws very slow projectiles is basically just a bullet sponge.

actually the doom 3 hellknight was more classic like in terms of behaviour - the new one acts totally different

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The Baron is meant to be stronger than the Knights. And size counts.

Dude, they are still huge and muscular. The barons are even bigger you know.

If only it threw plasma though. Thats my only letdown on the hellknight.

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I don't mind them being smaller, but i do take issue with them 1. looking like a direct rip from the doom 3 version and 2. the fact they look more like aliens than goatman. It would have been better if they where smaller, a different color and had smaller horns, implying that hell knights "evolve" into barons as they get stronger/older or something, but the current design is kinda meh... but nothing tops the CyberMoose in overall shitty design.

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Kontra Kommando said:

I was pretty happy to see they went with the minataur-like barons of hell. I don't mind the hell knights being smaller, to help distinguish them form the barons even further.


That's why I was actually glad they used the Doom 3 design because the Hell Knight should be its own demon instead of just a weaker paler Baron of Hell.

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Here's a comparison shot Doom 3 / Doom 2016. The new Hellknight is based on the D3 version, but not a direct rip.

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Deatheye said:

and the doom 3 hellknights could throw their demonish fireballs - the new one can't even do that


Doom 3 also didn't have a Baron of Hell. Maybe, now that both are included, ID decided to make the Hell Knight also act different.

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MetroidJunkie said:

Doom 3 also didn't have a Baron of Hell. Maybe.

There is, if you play the "Hell" level again, you'll meet them .

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There are no Barons in Doom 3. You're thinking of the hell variant of the Hell Knights which added a lot of hellish tattoos all over their bodies.

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The Hellknights are bigger than the regular fodder, like imps, almost twice as big and much beefier. This is a good contrast to help distinguish them, especially since both Hellknights and Imps seem to be a lot more mobile, with Hellknights charging and having a pounce attack.
The Baron is even bigger, has horns, bulkier, and bright red. They seem to be about 1.5X bigger than the Hellknight, and they also have a lot more health and do more damage.
The Cyberdemon is EVEN BIGGER, as he should be.
This is a logical progression with all these bipedal demons, and with the Hellknights and Barons having different attacks it becomes easier to tell them apart at a moments notice, especially in a twitch reaction shooter like this.
You have different animations per demon type, different attacks, different sizes and different models and colors all leading to more unique silhouettes that become easier to distinguish.

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J.B.R said:

I find these new Hellknights to be funny and hilarious, especially when they get glory killed.


Why funny?

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Actually, based on what I know of Doom 3 Hell Knight's height and size comparisons from the E3 hologram at least (the other footage are too fast to really get an accurate height picture), the Hell Knights in Doom 4 are around the same size as Doom 3's. It's just that Doom 4's Barons are WAAAAAAAY bigger relative to the player than previous games (including classic Doom).

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Deatheye said:

.. so small? doom 3 hellknights are huge and intimidating - classic hellknights are even as big as the barons of hell

I love the doom 3 Hellknights and it's out of question the new one got inspired from them, but why are they so fucking small? that really disappoints me


I would go further and argue that all Doom 2016 monsters seen so far look rather small and unintimidating - with the exception of the Cyberdemon, of course.

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