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My issue with snapmap

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Calling yourself a mapper because you can use snapmap is like rearranging the furniture in your home and telling people that you built a new house.

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I get your point, but that's a truly terrible analogy.

Picking out a house from a catalog and then rearranging the furniture is closer, but there is still going to be at least some skill required for snap-map.

I wish we could have snap-map and then a standalone modding software, like how Portal 2 has both the PeTI (which is 10x more restrictive than snap-map will be) and Hammer. Probably will never happen because of megatextures/virtual textures, but a man can dream.

I think it's totally ok to hate that we are going to have snap-map instead of some real software, but I fail to see how trying to clog the forums with shitposts and bad jokes solves anything.

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Yes sir, quite right, no True Scotsma.... err, i mean Mapper uses snapmap.

Seriously? i mean, the game is not even out and we are already calling out people for using snapmap?

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So you're only a mapper if the editor does what you personally feel it should do? OK.

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You're only a mapper if you're actually designing a map, not arranging some premade rooms and objects.

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According to who's rules? Is there some objective mapping god you've appealed to?

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TraceOfSpades said:

You're only a mapper if you're actually "DESIGNING" a map, not arranging some premade rooms and objects.

you technically designing a map in snap map, you design the flow, placment, difficulty. Just because Your using prefabs doesn't mean your not a map designer. Is it simpler? structurely yes. is it no longer making maps? no.

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Creating levels for Doom3 is basically drawing out a fuckload of predefined volumetric shapes and combining them in interesting ways.

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You're not a mapper if you use that Doom Builder program which does everything for you: Align textures, snapping linedefs together with ease, built in 3D mode editor.. REAL mappers use DoomEd!

I get what Trace is saying but I don't see an issue - someone who only makes stuff for Doom 16 isn't going to somehow cause problems for Old Doom mappers. It's just another label, any hack with no talent can still go around calling themselves a mapper.

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Doomkid said:

You're not a mapper if you use that Doom Builder program which does everything for you: Align textures, snapping linedefs together with ease, built in 3D mode editor.. REAL mappers use DoomEd!

I get what Trace is saying but I don't see an issue - someone who only makes stuff for Doom 16 isn't going to somehow cause problems for Old Doom mappers. It's just another label, any hack with no talent can still go around calling themselves a mapper.


Holy hell there's an auto align tool?! That sounds lovely.

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GoatLord said:

According to who's rules? Is there some objective mapping god you've appealed to?


Yes.

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I think some of us here are underselling SnapMap, at least a little bit. While you can't really design your own rooms, you can block out basic rooms with elements that completely change gameflow. With how flexible scripting, enemy placement and modifiers are, there will be ample opportunity for us to design unique gameplay experiences.

I stumbled upon this German stream of SnapMap that delves a little deeper into what the tool can do and there is some really cool stuff this guy does. This includes tying lighting and effects to scripted events and enemy pathfinding and other really cool things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GcyHrRXJCA

I urge you to check it out, because even though it seems disappointing from a cosmetic perspective (which I really loved obsessing over texture alignment and unique rooms in doom builder) it seems flexible enough for us to keep this interesting for the long haul. ESPECIALLY if they continue to add stuff to it and supply us with more modules. Maybe, one day, we will be able to make our own modules on PC. Then it's REALLY on.

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Are we starting the great "Mapper Poser" wars already? If you think about it, Wolfenstein 3D mapping wasn't much different. Every block is basically a "prefab" structure, and you can make room by making a rough circle with the prefabs. They make pillars too in the middle of rooms, and then like snap map you can just drop in enemies and objects.

But I guess Wolf 3D mapping wasn't true mapping either, and they're all just posers too.

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CheeseOnTheMoon said:

I get your point, but that's a truly terrible analogy.

Picking out a house from a catalog and then rearranging the furniture is closer, but there is still going to be at least some skill required for snap-map.

I wish we could have snap-map and then a standalone modding software, like how Portal 2 has both the PeTI (which is 10x more restrictive than snap-map will be) and Hammer. Probably will never happen because of megatextures/virtual textures, but a man can dream.

I think it's totally ok to hate that we are going to have snap-map instead of some real software, but I fail to see how trying to clog the forums with shitposts and bad jokes solves anything.


I have an idea for Megatextures.

Why not have a bunch of mini - textures, (Like stone, decals), and have multiple layers of these small assets that make the Mega texture look very different. And you have different layers of textures, the first layer has 100% of a certain material (Stone, brick), the second layer adds a secondary material (Plaster, Dirt, Gravel, etc) on 60% of the megatexture, and then the next layer adds small decals (Stains, decor, cracks), and they're all easy to edit.

Essentially you can make large detailed textures by using smaller assets, which makes it easier to customize and in turn uses a random generation program with tweaked parameters.

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Doomkid said:

You're not a mapper if you use that Doom Builder program which does everything for you: Align textures, snapping linedefs together with ease, built in 3D mode editor.. REAL mappers use DoomEd!

OT, but if you want to experience something as excruciating as getting circumcised with a rusty spork, try EdMap. It's a miracle that I didn't entirety quit mapping after using that turd.

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Would you rather have a shitty map created by me, or a good or decent Snapmap from me?

Let's see on the 13th.

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Maybe some of us don't care what we're called. Not everyone feels the need to spend four years at uni learning computer aided design just so a random Doomworld member thinks their unofficial maps are somehow official.

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TraceOfSpades said:

Calling yourself a mapper because you can use snapmap is like rearranging the furniture in your home and telling people that you built a new house.

Close, but I think it would be more of like you pick out fully built pieces of a house that are already there and put them together (so sort of but not really building a new house).

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Calling yourself a mapper because you made a map for a game engine you did not make using tools you did not make with stock resources you did not make in a operating system you did not make in a programming languague you did not make in a computer you did not make with materials you did not make using knowledge you did not create in a world you didn't make in a universe you did not make in a reality you did not create is like saying you built a house using things you did not make.

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Unf said:

Calling yourself a mapper because you made a map for a game engine you did not make using tools you did not make with stock resources you did not make in a operating system you did not make in a programming languague you did not make in a computer you did not make with materials you did not make using knowledge you did not create in a world you didn't make in a universe you did not make in a reality you did not create is like saying you built a house using things you did not make.

damn, that's fucking cold! lol

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I would agree if it weren't for all of the cool modding opportunities that snap map has in it. There are so many cool things you can do with it besides just throwing random rooms together.

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