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MrGlide

Do you perfer Iwad UV or new styled UV?

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Iwads (especially doom\doom2) are interesting in that while all maps are made to be beatable from pistol start, they are still mainly intended to be played continiously. So by pistol starting them you get to experience some unique stuff like Map17 not having SSG despite throwing a lot of tough monsters at you. This rarely happens today. There are a lot of similar cases in other maps: the gameplay is just kinda strange from pistol start, very different from what you see nowadays. I like that.

Also I think older wads usually better combine difficulty with other things. Like, they can be challenging, but at the same time adventurous and sometimes simply fun-oriented. But while playing modern hard maps, I often feel like I'm being "tested" and that's the only thing they offer. I dunno, maybe I'm just not good enough to play them without worrying about dying too much.

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I prefer IWAD style, not really a fan of super-hard 1-hour long slaugherrish gameplay style :P

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Deadwing said:

I prefer IWAD style, not really a fan of super-hard 1-hour long slaugherrish gameplay style :P


The same here!

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"New styled UV" can mean a lot of different things:
- highly choreographed and efficiently punishing gameplay
- generic megawad's grindful slaughter gameplay
- slaughter yet easy-ish fast gameplay
- small maps with fast paced and moderately challenging gameplay
- it could mean pretty much any other gameplay as well, because each map is different

I prefer a greater level of challenge than the IWADs provide, but it has to not fall into the "grindful" category. I enjoy easy wads that are particularly funny, impressive or inspirative in some way. I also prefer medium sized maps, although both small and large ones are fine with me too, I just couldn't play too many of them in a row.

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I like anything until the monster count goes into the thousands. I stopped finding killing cannon fodders with the RL\BFG funny ages ago.

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The way you play might highly influence which you prefer. Continuous with in-level saves might be enjoyable with "Iwad-era" and mostly exploratory wads, while I think that Plutonia or HR-related offsprings are much more enjoyable from a pistol start and no-save attitude. As you have to "solve the puzzle", probing solutions by trial and error. Playing them with saves/quicksaves is probably the best way to make them blend in your memory as an endless chore.

My 2 cents, as I always pistol start and never save anyway.

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kuchitsu said:

[...] while playing modern hard maps, I often feel like I'm being "tested" and that's the only thing they offer. I dunno, maybe I'm just not good enough to play them without worrying about dying too much.

While I'd never sweep all maps of any era under one rug, I do see this relatively often. It naturally varies a lot, but I love maps that are challenging overall, but have a good mix of hard bits and easy bits. A breather is sometimes necessary!

With that said, I can't remember the last time I fully played through a wad with more than 5 maps or so, so I'm certainly no authority on this topic. I've done some bug testing and map inspecting for friends and been taken aback by the visuals and overall grand nature of things, but I'm in a position of being able to appreciate the truckload of effort and beauty present in many megawads, especially modern ones, but can I be bothered to sit down and play them through? 9 times out of 10, the answer is 'no'. Not any fault of the mappers, mind you, just a different strokes kind of thing.

Your wad has 3 maps and can be beaten in about an hour, you say? I'm all over it, in that case!

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Old style for me.

About as slaughterish as I like is something like Plutonia's Go 2 It. There are hordes, and lots of rockets and cells to deal with them, but the hordes are mostly set up with a purpose and a decent environment for dealing with them without just circle-strafing them. The only part that is really tedious to me is the beginning with the mancubus pit.

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The real question here is, define IWAD UV? Because all four IWADs play rather different from one another.

Personally, I prefer how Doom 1 does it -- never throws huge crowds of anything stronger than zombies and imps, but smaller, tougher encounters are increasingly frequent as you go along.

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Pegg said:

I like anything until the monster count goes into the thousands. I stopped finding killing cannon fodders with the RL\BFG funny ages ago.


Under 1k is definitely the sweet spot, even for slaughtermaps. Hell, map 28 of Scythe was a BFG spam slaughterfest with 300+(?) starting monsters. I'm not a fan of stupidly high monster counts when I don't even fight half of them because they die to infighting.

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I almost always play on HMP. But I don't like really hard stuff anyway.

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Wow I had no clue this would be so one sided, as for the new uv I'm refering to, would be the super heavy top teir monsters everywhere trend, but all of you guy's input has definetly change the way I see some things and will be adjusting my mapping style to accomedate.

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I'm a classic fan. I don't like being overly challenged, just enough to always be alert. I definitely want breathers and moments of feeling too powerful with the occasional heart pumping situation. I'm not a fan of large maps or slaughters as they get either grindy or too repetitive, tiring me out and ruining my motivation to play the next level.

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Chezza said:

I'm a classic fan. I don't like being overly challenged, just enough to always be alert. I definitely want breathers and moments of feeling too powerful with the occasional heart pumping situation. I'm not a fan of large maps or slaughters as they get either grindy or too repetitive, tiring me out and ruining my motivation to play the next level.

What do you play on brutal Doom?

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MrGlide said:

What do you play on brutal Doom?


Hurt Me Plenty is my average difficulty choice. The Doom 1 and 2 Wads are my most played Dooms, other than re-testing my own map over and over. But I have favored UV lately, although it can get a bit grindy for me. I prefer lesser monsters that are deadly over many deadly monsters.

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I like harder stuff in general, not quite the upperest echelon hardcore stuff but stuff designed to kill -- it can really get the blood pumping. But lately I'm becoming a lot more appreciative of three types of 'easier maps'.

1) Iwad-style maps with austere pistol starts, the sort that Memfis mentioned. I had a blast with map12 and map13 of D2TWID because it was like, "Okay, where the hell are the weapons?" while a lot of things were chasing me.

2) Easy maps that still possess a sense of danger and surprise you but are more about allowing you to test yourself. For example, you can set yourself a goal of taking very little damage, or of not doing anything stupid, or of killing as many things as possible with the berserk without being too sloppy. When I FDA a map I know to be on the easier side, my goal is to get through smoothly, without any embarrassing moments.

3) Long maps that have nothing particularly hard at all when the individual encounters are viewed in isolation, but that challenge you to not make any serious mistakes over the course of a 60+ minute session. Relatively easy fights can get really tense when they carry a significant mistake penalty. Even if you're sitting at 100% HP, if you eat a fireball or two and drop down to 60% HP, the next hitscanner trap might suddenly become a serious threat! Scary.

(All three without saves. Type #3 in particular becomes really boring when there's no potential penalty for a serious mistake.)

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I like how in Doom 1 and 2 UV was used for those who had already played, probably beat, the game as an incentive to play again with tougher monsters.

Obviously everyone is familiar enough with those games now to treat UV as the normal setting and unfortunately that has translated into PWADS.

So I think I prefer what I believe was the intended use of UV was in IWADS but if it was scaled up to accommodate modern skill levels.

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purist said:

I like how in Doom 1 and 2 UV was used for those who had already played, probably beat, the game as an incentive to play again with tougher monsters.

Obviously everyone is familiar enough with those games now to treat UV as the normal setting and unfortunately that has translated into PWADS.

So I think I prefer what I believe was the intended use of UV was in IWADS but if it was scaled up to accommodate modern skill levels.


I view playing pistol start as a way of replaying PWAD's with an extra challenge above UV. Unless of course the author has stated that that is the intended way to play from the start.

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purist said:

I like how in Doom 1 and 2 UV was used for those who had already played, probably beat, the game as an incentive to play again with tougher monsters.

Obviously everyone is familiar enough with those games now to treat UV as the normal setting and unfortunately that has translated into PWADS.

So I think I prefer what I believe was the intended use of UV was in IWADS but if it was scaled up to accommodate modern skill levels.


Yeah, to me, personally, I don't really care about how UV centrism ends up with people crying that UV is too difficult on certain wads, instead of trying HMP first like the text file suggests they should.

The real cost is the missed opportunity: if the norm instead was that all wads were designed to be played first and foremost on HMP, with UV added as the "extra challenge" mode that you played if you liked HMP, there'd be a lot more material out there to play, for everyone.

I know that some people have said that -fast or Nightmare can be the "extra challenge" mode, but those modes change the mechanics a lot, and they don't appeal to me for the same reason that other games I don't like don't appeal to me. Same with reality, even though I like it in moderation.

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Old style but I do like some slaughter-esque gameplay that doesn't become a grindfest like Sunder or Sunlust.

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Good 'ole IWAD UV, but I'll play some hard WADs or some slaughter kind of maps sometimes.

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Glaice said:

Old style but I do like some slaughter-esque gameplay that doesn't become a grindfest like Sunder or Sunlust.


I agree with Sunder, but which Sunlust maps did you find to be a grindfest aside from perhaps 24, 28 and 30?

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As a personal preference, I feel Plutonia experiment is the best model for UV. Some people ive heard say Plutonia hasn't aged well but I find it to be the most replayable wad to me

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rileymartin said:

I agree with Sunder, but which Sunlust maps did you find to be a grindfest aside from perhaps 24, 28 and 30?



I didn't play it, I watched Youtube videos playing on these maps which are just absurd.

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Watching YT videos or playing with very frequent saves (multiple times in individual encounters) isn't really a good way to judge how fun it is to really play a map -- the fun of playing is in the tension caused by having to avoid meaningful mistakes.

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recently admitted to myself that I like Doom to be as easy as possible. when it comes to playing user-made levels and level sets what I'm looking for is ingenuity, mood and skill with the building tool... only should I really adore a level set in ITYTD will I revisit it on the intended skill levels

even though I've beaten it a bunch I still find it fairly easy to die playing Doom 2 on UV, especially on maps 9 and 12

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I like IWAD UV. Hell, IWADs are the only thing usually I play UV on. I'm just not good enough to play new UV.

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