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MrGlide

Do you perfer Iwad UV or new styled UV?

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Deadwing said:

I prefer IWAD style, not really a fan of super-hard 1-hour long slaugherrish gameplay style :P

What he said.

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yakfak said:

recently admitted to myself that I like Doom to be as easy as possible. when it comes to playing user-made levels and level sets what I'm looking for is ingenuity, mood and skill with the building tool... only should I really adore a level set in ITYTD will I revisit it on the intended skill levels

even though I've beaten it a bunch I still find it fairly easy to die playing Doom 2 on UV, especially on maps 9 and 12


The original doom is actually very creepy on easy. Some levels have monsters in the single digits. Its like "omg where are they gonna be D:"

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Hmm, lets's see. I love modern style UV wads as long as they are not made in 90% of slaughtermaps. That's why I simply adore Deus Vult II and Sunlust (some hellish slaughtermaps but still most of this wad is ultra difficult modern mapping). IWADs on UV SOMETIMES feel too easy for me now.

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It's threads like these that are literally killing the slaughter genre. This is why Slaughterfest 2013 Slaughterfest 2016 Slaughterfest 3 is never coming out!

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rileymartin said:

It's threads like these that are literally killing the slaughter genre. This is why Slaughterfest 2013 Slaughterfest 2016 Slaughterfest 3 is never coming out!

Slaughter genre isn't going anywhere, there's just alot of people it's not appealing to. Sadly there are alot of people that don't get to really enjoy these really new beautiful map sets coming out because even on easy they're as hard as Iwad UV. A challenge is great, an ass whooping can get boring and frustrate some players into quiting.

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For me it's not so much about the difficulty itself (I'm a pretty decent player, beat most Valiant maps with only one death or less), as it is about the whole design philosophy with dumbed down layouts where you'll never get lost and samey predictable "trap" fights that are all obvious and can't even be called traps. There's just nothing interesting happening in these modern wads as all five moves of Doom are already familiar to you from the previous map, and the one before it, and the one before it, and the one before it. Almost any crap shitwad from 1994 with haphazard texturing and invulnerability spheres scattered all over the place has a lot more to offer in terms of surprises, imagination, personality, adventure, thinking... That's what's the problem with these "modern hard wads" really is. I just see complete lack of ideas, which is especially devastating when the author is technically very competent and you know that he could create much more interesting stuff.

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Challenging isn't what makes slaughterfests less interesting to some players. They just prefer a unique pacing\layout without the demons feeling like cannon fodder and the player having a megasphere\full ammo every 10 mins to grind them down.

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What he typed ^. So for me, it's an easy choice. IWAD UV. I consider the current "mapping fad" be both heavy-handed and unimaginative in equal measure.

Consider this: A hundred screaming revenants in an open, bright space against a player with the BFG9000 is less of a challenge than two revenants in a dark maze against a player with six shells left in his shotgun.

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You could try good slaughtermaps instead of ones that give you the BFG in an wide-open space against nothing but 100 revenants. It's not really fair to criticize a genre based on its bad stuff. Sturgeon's law -- 90% of everything is shit -- applies to non-slaughtermaps too.

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I prefer oldschool, since I'm not too much into slaughterfest-wads. And before anyone can say anything, I want to say contrary to popular belief, Hell Revealed is NOT of the slaughter genre. True it has a higher monster count than many maps created at the time, but not to the extent of being consider a "slaughter-megawad." Only a handful in that set are slaughterish, but most of them felt more like really difficult maps that take the relentless gameplay of Plutonia and expand on it. At least Hell Revealed is lenient compared to Sunder, Sunlust, and the like.

Bottom line: Difficult mapset =/= slaughterfest

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IIRC noone ever really figured out how to define slaughter. So all these talks about "this wad is slaughter and this wad is not" are kinda silly.

But I can say that judging it by comparing HR to the newer wads is pretty strange. So maybe it used to be slaughter but then Sunder appeared and stripped it of that title?

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Historically, the term "slaughtermap" was coined in reference to Deus Vult. HR/AV styles of "heavy monster counts" don't approach the monster counts or density of DV, and thus aren't slaughtermaps. But they're also not IWAD-like at all.

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Let's complicate things further by creating new categories: this-is-the-Dark-Souls-of-Doom slaughter, popcorn-slaughter, circling-forever slaughter and slaughter-except-there-is-less-than-100-monsters slaughter

Edit:

Cynical said:

Historically, the term "slaughtermap" was coined in reference to Deus Vult. HR/AV styles of "heavy monster counts" don't approach the monster counts or density of DV, and thus aren't slaughtermaps. But they're also not IWAD-like at all.

I think you are right. I can't remember what I used to call difficult maps before that point. HR-like? Maybe I used "HR" like some kind of label.

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Kira said:

I think you are right. I can't remember what I used to call difficult maps before that point. HR-like? Maybe I used "HR" like some kind of label.

I call difficult maps Plutonia/HR-esque, since both started the Nintendo Hard aspect in Doom mapping.

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Like in ksutra.txt:

Heh..we made 32 maps, finally, so you all "HR-skilled" players let's go and beat them :-)

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rdwpa said:

You could try good slaughtermaps instead of ones that give you the BFG in an wide-open space against nothing but 100 revenants. It's not really fair to criticize a genre based on its bad stuff. Sturgeon's law -- 90% of everything is shit -- applies to non-slaughtermaps too.


I'm sure that some slaughtermaps are better than others. It's the theme (for want of a better word) that I'm no fan of. I'm more of a "less is more" kind of guy.

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rileymartin said:

It's threads like these that are literally killing the slaughter genre.

The slaughter genre will never die, only the haters will when they play it.

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Cynical said:

Historically, the term "slaughtermap" was coined in reference to Deus Vult. HR/AV styles of "heavy monster counts" don't approach the monster counts or density of DV, and thus aren't slaughtermaps. But they're also not IWAD-like at all.


Then what were earlier infinite cell BFG spam maps like Scythe 26 referred to? That map has insane monster density and takes place in a single arena like setting.

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TimeOfDeath said:

The slaughter genre will never die, only the haters will when they play it.


I wanna get this on a plaque or something :D

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Classic UV was always winner for me, cause its more enjoyable and I will not get pissed off by dying too much (= main reason).
About challenge-oriented maps, here is why I dont like them:
- sudden monster popups
- sudden ambushes by teleports
- slaughter maps are always linear. Push the switch, and next room full of monsters opens. Classic was more variating, more about exploration, not just about being hard.
- in classic UV all weapons had their place, not just SSG, RL and BFG
- those "turrets" where you kill Revenant and another will teleport there, and there are 10 or so in stack

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NinjaLiquidator said:

- slaughter maps are always linear

This statement is highly suspicious, though I can see where it comes from.

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Oh god oh god I hate those stack turrets so much. Feels so stupid standing under them for like a minute and shooting again and again. At least use the infinite resurrection trick.

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I think one of the Bloodstain maps had like two five-stack chaingunner turrets with some kind of teleport delay. So after killing a few, you turn around and another asshole teleports in a second later and shoots you in the back.

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40oz said:

The original doom is actually very creepy on easy. Some levels have monsters in the single digits. Its like "omg where are they gonna be D:"


That gives me an idea: play on -skill 1 -fast, and buff up the monsters a bit with some DeHackEd. Like, maybe they have more HP, or do more damage, or both. Or maybe some alternate attacks (imps with rockets?)

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Nice thread. I like both "kinds of UV" as long as the map is fun (I like Memento Mori as well as I like Plutonia 2). When I'm on "concentration racing" I like to play difficult maps likes Death-Destiny wads or other similiar stuff, although I tend to avoid, for now, too long maps (eg: 1500+ monsters which tooks for me more then 1.30 hours to finish) mainly for reasons of time but also lack of practice.

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Cynical said:

Historically, the term "slaughtermap" was coined in reference to Deus Vult. HR/AV styles of "heavy monster counts" don't approach the monster counts or density of DV, and thus aren't slaughtermaps. But they're also not IWAD-like at all.

No, you are wrong. Historically, the person who should be most likely credited for coining the term is Erik Alm, of course. He was using the term long before DV came out. First occurence on Doomworld? You might want to sit down. Nuts.wad, baby.

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