Ancient Aliens - final version on idgames

rhinoduck said:

I am yet to truly look into how line activation exactly works and how it differs across ports, that's why those setups are a bit confusing to me. It is not about the specific actions the lines execute, it is about whether and when they will be executed; aaliens already nicely highlighted some of the differences between ports in this (specifically, prboom+ is a lot more "forgiving", it seems). These are the specific questions I have:

1) Are the two lines forming a "roof" on the left expected to be triggered before or after the sector blocking the voodoo doll moves out of the way?

2) Is the voodoo doll on the right expected to trigger the topmost line when it teleports back?


Ah, gotcha.

1. They are meant to be triggered after the sector blocking the voodoo doll moves.

2. Nope, it only triggers (at least, it should) the first time it crosses right when the map starts.

Share this post


Link to post
AD_79 said:

Ah, gotcha.

1. They are meant to be triggered after the sector blocking the voodoo doll moves.

2. Nope, it only triggers (at least, it should) the first time it crosses right when the map starts.

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post

We would like to play the first half of this wad in ZDaemon Thursday Night Survival (TNS) #249 this week (19th May); the session will start at 18:00 UTC = 19:00 BST = 14:00 EDT = ..., and I expect it to stay crowded for about 6 hours, and then less populated but still active for some further hours to come.

DW Multiplayer forum post with more details coming today (Wednesday) in the Euro evening hours (will link it here later). If you'd like to postpone it to some other week, let us know; if not, you're all invited to join us this Thursday!

Share this post


Link to post
rhinoduck said:

2) This is an example that can fail in ZDaemon (doll sits right in front of an axis-aligned line before the sector lowers/rises and lets it pass) and which was indeed failing in map25 in rc1 before the angles were changed in rc2 where the lines are now no longer aligned with any of the axes)
http://rhinoduck.mooo.com/downloads/temp/aaliens/aaliens-zd-voodoo-linedef-issue-2.png



Can it be that there is a problem with how scrolling velocity is applied? I noticed that all of the blocking sectors in the voodoo conveyors are not scrolling themselves.

I also remember that older ZDooms (long before I started working on it) had some problems with such setups so maybe these never got fixed in ZDaemon?

In this particular case some engine-side investigations may be in order, but with a closed source project there won't be any concrete feedback.

Share this post


Link to post
Graf Zahl said:

Can it be that there is a problem with how scrolling velocity is applied? I noticed that all of the blocking sectors in the voodoo conveyors are not scrolling themselves.

I also remember that older ZDooms (long before I started working on it) had some problems with such setups so maybe these never got fixed in ZDaemon?

In this particular case some engine-side investigations may be in order, but with a closed source project there won't be any concrete feedback.


Speed was something I wanted to check next, and what do you know... the rc1 version of map25 had seven 640 units long scroll lines applied to the voodoo sectors. I don't know if these combine and if there is cap on the resulting conveyor belt speed, but the rc2 version of map25 has these lines shortened to 64 units and it no longer causes problems (even if the lines combine, the resulting step is only 14 units per tick). I suppose the code for testing if a linedef was crossed is the same for all actors and thus this probably applies: https://www.doomworld.com/vb/post/1587750

After some testing, I think map23's problems are only with linedefs directly under voodoo dolls, and so it seems I drew a wrong generalisation from two different problems in two different maps. Changing the angle of the linedefs will still help with the speed problem though if the resulting extended zone of possible contact is made long enough.

Anyway, I'll be keeping the fixes for TNS just in case as they don't break anything; the only noticeable changes may be in map23, but that map needs those either way. I'm also going to check the speed of other scrollers in the wad as I think I've seen those pointy voodoo rooms in more maps than just rc1 version of map25.

@AD_79: map20 works fine in ZDaemon as it is.

@everyone: Sorry for the noise.


EDIT: 3800 is the magical number in ZDaemon. At least in map25, in that position and orientation. If the total length of linedefs having the same tag and special 253 is <3800, the doll will activate the line. If it is >=3800, the doll will not activate the line. Don't ask me why; though if you have an explanation, I'm curious to hear it.

Anyway, if I go by this, the rest of the wad should be ok without patching. Keys and monsters seem to teleport even when they are on >=3800 conveyor belts (at least in the situations in this wad). So... the only thing that needs fixing for ZDaemon now is map23, from which ZDoom would also benefit.

This seems to be it, but I reserve the right to change my observations and explanations another 100k times.

Share this post


Link to post

Man these new monsters are terrifying.

Share this post


Link to post

As rhinoduck promised, here is the DW post for Thursday Night Survival.

I would like to repeat the invitation to everyone who enjoys this WAD with a special appeal to all the mappers and other WAD contributors. It sure would be cool to see any of you there :)

Share this post


Link to post

Rhinoduck: Thanks for looking into the voodoo doll stuff. I'll make sure to include fixes in the next RC (which won't be coming for a while yet) so you don't have to do them again, including some fixes to the voodoo dolls in 23 and 25. Anyway, until then, it's fine with me if you want to make ZDaemon specific changes for compatibility. Hopefully once aaliens is finalized it'll be as simple for you to make a version for ZDaemon as just rebuilding the nodes with an alternate nodebuilder.

rdwpa said:

Man these new monsters are terrifying.


I thought you were waiting for the DWMC to get into the next episodes :D

Share this post


Link to post

Hah, I didn't feel like waiting that long.

Bug report: I got stuck (mercifully, very early) in map14 here after activating the light bridge and tiptoeing around near the edge: http://i.imgur.com/nJOkSm1.png.

Edit: The spiderdemon fight in this map is hilarious. :D You expect it to be a stationary area denier given the positioning (and the fact that it's a spiderdemon) and then it just wanders out into the open as an actual threat w/ minimal cover.

Share this post


Link to post

I finally had the chance to play through most of this map set; y'all did a fantastic job and I'm sure that this will be one of the top contenders for a Cacoward this year. I loved the encounters and the way they were set up as well as the grandness of the architecture and the detailing. This will definitely be a source of inspiration for me in the future.

I applaud your hard work and creativity here and really look forward to not only burying myself deeper in this set, but to whatever your next project(s) will be as well. Great job, once again, to everyone who worked hard on producing such a quality product!

We're a little behind with the articles right now, due to me, but for this next article this map set received top billing, only grudgingly under Doom 4's release. I have great respect for those involved in this project.

Share this post


Link to post

After a few very busy days, I've resumed my playthrough. In MAP21, after you get the red key is there any way to get back to the rest of the map to uncover secret areas previously missed?

Share this post


Link to post

Hey, I just finished playing this masterpiece.
Thank you SO MUCH, I haven't had so much fun playing a doom wad since a really long time.
Valiant was also one of my favorite wads, and I couldn't believe you could top that one, but look at it now.
I'll be sure to replay this wad over and over, there are very little things I can say that could describe this wad's glory, so I'll settle for "thank you". :)

Share this post


Link to post

playing on an ouya with a ps3 controller and mixing gzdoom and prboom+. so far i am, or rather was enjoying the mod. great level design and aesthetics. level one rather frustrsted at times (splat, reload, splat etc) and I've save scummed in extremis. but i bloody well object to those sodding plasma troopers on hmp. they constantly melt me instantly. the pyramids are gits too. could you tone down the plasma men on hmp? I'm on the second level with plasma men, and there's a bit near the start of the level with a switch at the end of a lava run with plasma snipers. kill them, hit switch run back and eat rockets then get melted. aside from those two gits i love it, thanks for the wad. i hear that bzzzzt bzzzt from the plasma men now, those chunts

Share this post


Link to post

I recently completed this on UV, pistol start.

Aesthetically, it's probably the best megawad I've ever played. At least top 5. And it also has some kind of weird as fuck plot without making it cheesy or bad for the gameplay.

There were a couple of maps that were a bit meh in that sense, but overall the difficulty was on point. It got much better on the later levels. Just wished level 30 wasn't a filler.

The plasma dude is a cool and dangerous enemy. For sure better balanced than the Scythe 2 one which honestly played like it was some kind of joke.

One of the best megawads ever and will be Cacoawarded no matter what.

Share this post


Link to post
stewboy said:

The soundtrack is now on Bandcamp.

I made my own thread for it but thought I'd post it in here as well!


Love me some stewboy tracks :O

Share this post


Link to post

Just wanted to offer huge thanks and congratulations to skillsaw and everyone else involved with this project. I've never completed a megawad so quickly nor had such a great time doing so. The aesthetics were incredible, and I was constantly impressed by how many novel battles and ideas kept coming up. I particularly liked maps 08, 11, 22 and 29.

I'm a huge fan of both Lunatic and (particularly) Vanguard and while I found Valiant to be too tough, Ancient Aliens has made me want to revisit it while taking the difficulty down another notch.

Share this post


Link to post
Rook said:

I'm a huge fan of both Lunatic and (particularly) Vanguard and while I found Valiant to be too tough, Ancient Aliens has made me want to revisit it while taking the difficulty down another notch.

Wait, you thought Valiant was harder than AA? The minigun there made lots of the harder enemies a breeze, and there is a lot of health. Maybe it's difficult to get used to the new enemies?

Share this post


Link to post
Rook said:

Just wanted to offer huge thanks and congratulations to skillsaw and everyone else involved with this project. I've never completed a megawad so quickly nor had such a great time doing so. The aesthetics were incredible, and I was constantly impressed by how many novel battles and ideas kept coming up. I particularly liked maps 08, 11, 22 and 29.

I'm a huge fan of both Lunatic and (particularly) Vanguard and while I found Valiant to be too tough, Ancient Aliens has made me want to revisit it while taking the difficulty down another notch.

Thanks so much, I'm glad to hear you liked map22! :)

Share this post


Link to post

The main issue I remember having in Valiant was getting surrounded quite a lot and struggling to carve out space in certain maps - Ancient Aliens often seemed more open somehow.

Share this post


Link to post

Nitpickousness.

weird lighting

this texture looks like something went wrong during palette conversion

misalignment

slime trail in the sky

dunno

dark seams

Well, it's probably too late now. Fixing them would require lots of tweaks. That map as a whole feels like it could've been made by BeeWen. Unique, ambitious, but also the hackiest one in the set. I'm sorry to say it, but those "tuning forks" are hands down the ugliest thing I've seen in Doom for quite a while.

got past the silent teleporter somehow

small misalignment

is this message necessary?

I thought Boom doesn't need this hack on secret-less maps. Or was it intentional, like a "You've found the secret lair of those behind it all" substitute?

Share this post


Link to post
rdwpa said:

The spiderdemon fight in this map is hilarious. :D You expect it to be a stationary area denier given the positioning (and the fact that it's a spiderdemon) and then it just wanders out into the open as an actual threat w/ minimal cover.


Thanks, I'm pretty happy with that mastermind!

savagegrant said:

After a few very busy days, I've resumed my playthrough. In MAP21, after you get the red key is there any way to get back to the rest of the map to uncover secret areas previously missed?


Ummm, nope. I'll put a route back.

Ven said:

Hey, I just finished playing this masterpiece.
Thank you SO MUCH, I haven't had so much fun playing a doom wad since a really long time.
Valiant was also one of my favorite wads, and I couldn't believe you could top that one, but look at it now.
I'll be sure to replay this wad over and over, there are very little things I can say that could describe this wad's glory, so I'll settle for "thank you". :)


For sure! Glad you're having a good time :D

HYPERMASCULiNE said:

playing on an ouya with a ps3 controller and mixing gzdoom and prboom+. so far i am, or rather was enjoying the mod. great level design and aesthetics. level one rather frustrsted at times (splat, reload, splat etc) and I've save scummed in extremis. but i bloody well object to those sodding plasma troopers on hmp. they constantly melt me instantly. the pyramids are gits too. could you tone down the plasma men on hmp? I'm on the second level with plasma men, and there's a bit near the start of the level with a switch at the end of a lava run with plasma snipers. kill them, hit switch run back and eat rockets then get melted. aside from those two gits i love it, thanks for the wad. i hear that bzzzzt bzzzt from the plasma men now, those chunts


I am not going to implement different monster behavior in different difficulty levels (although it would be possible to do when playing in ZDoom). If the later episodes are giving you trouble I would recommend switching to HNTR (the new monsters are used more sparingly on HNTR, at least in the RC2 version) or using a mouse and keyboard!

Talvi said:

I recently completed this on UV, pistol start.

Aesthetically, it's probably the best megawad I've ever played. At least top 5. And it also has some kind of weird as fuck plot without making it cheesy or bad for the gameplay.

There were a couple of maps that were a bit meh in that sense, but overall the difficulty was on point. It got much better on the later levels. Just wished level 30 wasn't a filler.

The plasma dude is a cool and dangerous enemy. For sure better balanced than the Scythe 2 one which honestly played like it was some kind of joke.

One of the best megawads ever and will be Cacoawarded no matter what.



Thanks! I definitely don't consider MAP30 a filler (even though there's no combat, a lot more work went into it than you might think) so I'm wondering if you found the optional secret on it. It's intended to tie the whole wad together.

Rook said:

Just wanted to offer huge thanks and congratulations to skillsaw and everyone else involved with this project. I've never completed a megawad so quickly nor had such a great time doing so. The aesthetics were incredible, and I was constantly impressed by how many novel battles and ideas kept coming up. I particularly liked maps 08, 11, 22 and 29.


I'm really happy with how MAP08 turned out and MAP22 is also killer for sure. Thanks!

Da Werecat said:

Nitpickousness.


Fixing. Also, it looks like you're right and Boom will award 100% secrets on a map with 0 secret areas.

Share this post


Link to post

Yeah, I found the level 30 secret, was a really neat one. Maybe I shoulda said that I usually think of a megawad of 31 combat levels. Calling it a filler might have been just a bit rude.

Excellent work

Share this post


Link to post

Playing this on Ultra Violence, and I have to say: this is probably the best megawad I have ever played.

Im only having a problem: im on map 5, and that Cyberdemon is HELL. I could put down the difficulty but after being killed by the Cyberdemon 2000 times it as turned into a matter of honor; IF I DON'T BEAT THAT MAP ON UV I DON'T DESERVE TO PLAY THE REST OF THE WAD. XD

Keep up the good work!

Share this post


Link to post

managed to beat this thing just now, sans the secret levels. was a lot of fun, albeit difficult in places.

in the cast call, the zombieman should be dubbed "An Alien", not "A Alien", for grammar's sake.

Share this post


Link to post
Doomhuntress said:

in the cast call, the zombieman should be dubbed "An Alien", not "A Alien", for grammar's sake.

But he's not an alien?

Share this post


Link to post
Da Werecat said:

But he's not an alien?


If you die to a zombieman it will say that you were killed by an alien. Doomhuntress was simply correcting the grammar of what's already in the mod.

Share this post


Link to post
AlexMax said:

Some random things I found when playing it in Zandronum

Missing floor textures? There are several instance of this in MAP30.

The hell? MAP12.


AFAIK, these black floors are textures.

As for the second shot, well, I dunno :/

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now