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DooM_RO

Impressions from NeoGaf (possible minor spoilers)

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No one complained about Brutal Doom's ridiculous over the top Glory Kills, But Doom 4 does it.... " OH GOD IT SLOWS DOWN THE FLOW OF THE FIGHT!!! "

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tuo said:

If the assumption (and that's all I can base my post on) is true, than we might have a finite amount of enemies per map, and thus a finite amount of "style points".

I'd actually be very happy if there is an option to gain the same upgrade possibilities without glory kills!


There are finite amount of upgrade points per map regardless if there are infinite/finite number of enemies. You can see them in top right corner of the screen or bottom right corner of the map, they are represented as UAC triangles.

Most likely you can upgrade without glory kills, or at least a negligible amount of them.

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Chickensoup101 said:

No one complained about Brutal Doom's ridiculous over the top Glory Kills, But Doom 4 does it.... " OH GOD IT SLOWS DOWN THE FLOW OF THE FIGHT!!! "


1) Brutal Doom is a free mod
2) Yes, people complain about Brutal Doom in general
3) Brutal Doom is a free mod

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Hofmann said:

There are finite amount of upgrade points per map regardless if there are infinite/finite number of enemies. You can see them in top right corner of the screen or bottom right corner of the map, they are represented as UAC triangles.

Most likely you can upgrade without glory kills, or at least a negligible amount of them.


Trust me, I can read :)

But you also say "most likely". Currently, we can only assume.

The stuff Marty Stratton said along with the NeoGaf info can easily be interpreted as the opposite (not beeing able to get all UAC shields per mission without performing glory kills).

We will see this Friday.

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Chickensoup101 said:

Reasons

- You will be locked when the glory kills animation starts
- It's slows down the fight
- The animation is too long ( Wat!? )


The first point is the risk/reward aspect of glory kills. If you kill a demon using a glory kill, you get rewarded with more health, but you are open to attacks from enemies.
If you choose to shoot the demon instead you get less health but can instead focus on more incoming enemies.

Point two and three are connected. They look to be rather fast though, especially the chainsaw, which is generally much faster now than it ever was in the originals.

Repetitiveness may be an aspect. But then again, you don't have to glory kill every demon you come across. The gameplay demo with the Vulkan didn't use a single glory kill from what I saw.

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Doom64hunter said:

I will never understand why people have such a problem with glory kills.


I think what they should have made is a charge meter for glory kills. Over time with more kills it fills up, and once fully charged you can do a rad glory kill! And they should have given you the chainsaw with the same use as the original, as a last resort weapon to conserve ammo. I don't really mind glory kills; I just didn't want to get health from using them. But someone already responded and pointed out you don't really need them.

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tuo said:

I am afraid they become cheap/repetitive after a short time (like the Mancubus seems to only have one).


Every enemy in the original Doom has exactly one death animation, and nobody cares. Why would this bother anyone if every enemy has several animations.

Chickensoup101 said:

Reasons

- You will be locked when the glory kills animation starts
- It's slows down the fight
- The animation is too long ( Wat!? )


Takes to long? Slows down the fight? Glory kills take less than a second.

AND GLORY KILLS ARE FUCKING OPTIONAL.

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I am going to try to play the game without glory kills. Obviously some are going to happen by accident but if balance is around them too much I will not be very happy. SOunds too me like they are required in Ultra NM mode. And I also heard the UNM monsters just hit harder ... which is just lazy.

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Hofmann said:

Every enemy in the original Doom has exactly one death animation, and nobody cares. Why would this bother anyone if every enemy has several animations.


Because it now is a mechanic on which they based the gameplay. Simple as that. And this mechanic is not very common in FPS, so there are reasons to be skeptical. Why do you think they spent the time to make the highlights optional? Because people from the very start/first E3 trailer feared that too much focus might be placed on them.

Look - as I said a couple of times already - I am in neither boat regarding them, until I can play the game. I absolutely dislike the hightlighting, that is for sure, but I cannot rate them regarding them interrupting the flow until I played the game. That's all. I might like them, I might not like them. And I am not alone with this opinion. What's so hard to understand about that?

I don't want to convince you of beeing skeptical of them, so why do you want to convince me that beeing skeptical of them is wrong?

They are optional (allthough we don't know yet if they are completely optional regarding upgrades), and everyone will form their opinion about them coming friday.

Is that such an unbearable situation?

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Hey, I like the glory kills, it's actually strategic and tactical. I'm just listing down why people doesn't like glory kills and i don't mean i didn't liked it.

No harm done Doomers!

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Upgrade wise it won't really matter, unless you are trying to unlock every upgrade or something. I'll probably just go with a specific route with the upgrades.

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you guys do know that enemies dropped weapons and ammo in the original Doom, right? if certain enemies dropped stimpacks or health bonuses no one would've batted an eye that killing enemies gives you supplies in this game. it just feels like a natural progression that they spew out more supplies in a later installment. i can't be the only one that hates strenuously placed supplies in the original game, can i?

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Doomhuntress said:

you guys do know that enemies dropped weapons and ammo in the original Doom, right? if certain enemies dropped stimpacks or health bonuses no one would've batted an eye that killing enemies gives you supplies in this game. it just feels like a natural progression that they spew out more supplies in a later installment. i can't be the only one that hates strenuously placed supplies in the original game, can i?


They still drop stuff if not glory killed. What exactly do you mean?

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tuo said:

Because it now is a mechanic on which they based the gameplay. Simple as that. And this mechanic is not very common in FPS, so there are reasons to be skeptical. Why do you think they spent the time to make the highlights optional? Because people from the very start/first E3 trailer feared that too much focus might be placed on them.

Look - as I said a couple of times already - I am in neither boat regarding them, until I can play the game. I absolutely dislike the hightlighting, that is for sure, but I cannot rate them regarding them interrupting the flow until I played the game. That's all. I might like them, I might not like them. And I am not alone with this opinion. What's so hard to understand about that?

I don't want to convince you of beeing skeptical of them, so why do you want to convince me that beeing skeptical of them is wrong?

They are optional (allthough we don't know yet if they are completely optional regarding upgrades), and everyone will form their opinion about them coming friday.

Is that such an unbearable situation?


I was just pointing out the flaw in the "it's repetitive argument", what you are saying now has nothing to do with repetitivness.

Look at this example, this map has 5 upgrade points, 3 from challenges and 2 from exploration:





Conclusion: only 5 glory kills have to be performed in this map, and I think it's similar in other maps. Yes in fact I think it's wrong to be skeptical despite all the evidence, but then again you will be pessimistic for 4 more days, so whatever...

Also, that guy from NeoGAF is biased and full of shit.

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That first screenshot above reminds me of old Doom quite a bit. Sorta like the underhalls a bit :)

And what the hell is wrong with most of the people in this forum lately? Seems to me that the more footage we actually get and the closer to release, the more everybody has to shit all over these threads and start little arguments with each other. Good lord I can't wait until the game is out. And almost not JUST to play it but to hopefully see a shift in the posts here from bullshit to people getting along and talking more about the GOOD than the BAD, which seems to be more than the opposite these past weeks and months. I hope snapmap is fun and that's the new hot topic. Here's to wishful thinking I guess ;)

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MrDeAD1313 said:

That first screenshot above reminds me of old Doom quite a bit. Sorta like the underhalls a bit :)


In the stream, i think i saw E2M9! :D

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"The pacing and the way combat happens is honestly a bit weird, and I think that not everyone will enjoy this: you basically explore areas that are/feel more or less empty, then you get to certain points and... BAM! you fight like hell. Basically, enemies start spawning around you almost in waves, and you have to survive and kill them all to move on. Mind that you are not constrained in a small area (like a single room), yet the fight happens in a particular (and usually not so small) place, so you will definitely experience a bit of an arena-like feel. In that sense, the E3 demo with the Hell setting is really representative of the whole experience: the level is there at your disposal, and you have to be smart to use it at your advantage: some of the creatures will chase you, other will wait for you, others will keep jumping here and there... And you will have to simply bring mayhem all around, traversing the level at full speed, double jumping all over, hiding for just a couple of seconds inside a grotto, finding power ups and shells that are there to assist you in your massacre. The soundtrack will pump straight through your veins, adrenaline will rush, you will have to act smart and sometimes even improvise, judging what to do in a split second (which will result in either a beautiful victory or a shameful game over!) and there will definitely be blood. Like A LOT of it.
Once you've killed everyone, the enemies will stop spawning, so you will be completely safe and you won't encounter any more monsters in that area (which kinds of removes the tension IMO, but that's clearly the way they designed the game).


At first, months ago, when I read about "Skate Parks" in that article I thought WTF did they do! But having thought about it for a while it seems like a good idea if you're going for replayability. Classic Doom we replay (among other reasons of course) because combat's satisfying and there's little variations from monster A.I. that sometimes make combat semi-random, but I think an arena style 'combat area' designed specifically for combat and map navigation, quick heel and toe work, will make for a very replayable experience provided combat is on that same level of satisfying as Classic Doom. With monsters capable of navigating arenas so well, it'll be entirely more random than anything in our beloved game, and instead of memorizing monster placement now the fuckers come at you from many possible directions.
That's one of the reasons I still play Serious Sam. Yea it's fairly linear, and you always know each arena, but when shit gets nuts SHIT GETS FUCKING NUTS in different ways every time you play.

The only major concern here is the difficulty of Ultra Violence and above. I want to be raped without lube, gagged and pinned down, slamming my head against the keyboard until my forehead bleeds from frustration.

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I think glory kills is the worst idea ever. It ruins the whole game. I don't think this new Doom is gonna be good. I want to play a freakin shooting game not some quick time events garbage. It's like the stupid chainsaw in Gears Of War where you stand there until it's done. Shooting stuff is what's fun about the Doom games. Not stopping every 5 seconds and watching canned animations of your character punching demons and ripping their eye out or whatever. It's not a fighting game it's a shooter.

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[notserious]Umm, can I disable Gauss Cannon in game? One of it's fire modes requires you to stand still and I think it breaks the pace of the game. Also can I disable shotgun? I don't like that weapon and I want it gone.[/notserious]

Glory Kills are big part of the game and nobody can change that.

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mb34823 said:

I think glory kills is the worst idea ever. It ruins the whole game. I don't think this new Doom is gonna be good. I want to play a freakin shooting game not some quick time events garbage. It's like the stupid chainsaw in Gears Of War where you stand there until it's done. Shooting stuff is what's fun about the Doom games. Not stopping every 5 seconds and watching canned animations of your character punching demons and ripping their eye out or whatever. It's not a fighting game it's a shooter.


Like someone is being salty, fufufufu~

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MrDeAD1313 said:

That first screenshot above reminds me of old Doom quite a bit. Sorta like the underhalls a bit :)

And what the hell is wrong with most of the people in this forum lately? Seems to me that the more footage we actually get and the closer to release, the more everybody has to shit all over these threads and start little arguments with each other. Good lord I can't wait until the game is out. And almost not JUST to play it but to hopefully see a shift in the posts here from bullshit to people getting along and talking more about the GOOD than the BAD, which seems to be more than the opposite these past weeks and months. I hope snapmap is fun and that's the new hot topic. Here's to wishful thinking I guess ;)


This I can agree with. People have been at eachother for the wrong reasons, the game Is what, FOUR DAYS away and already everyone Is shitting on It.

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tuo said:

I can't speak for "people", I can only speak for myself. I am afraid they become cheap/repetitive after a short time (like the Mancubus seems to only have one).


DonĀ“t want to teach you, just a little sidenote. In one of the official stream there was a mancubus getting ripped his arm out as a glory kill. And i think there was a third one with his back, but that was lame.

I like the idea about the glory kills and i cant wait to do some curb stomps and the one with the ripped of jaw.

Am i the only one that thinks that the whole discussions getting a ridiculous dimension? People seem to completley freak out about everything now.

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Tritnew said:

This I can agree with. People have been at eachother for the wrong reasons, the game Is what, FOUR DAYS away and already everyone Is shitting on It.

Maybe because this game already has A LOT of problems with sound, design, marketing, optimization and gameplay? People are really worried about this game.

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AnonimVio said:

Maybe because this game already has A LOT of problems with sound, design, marketing, optimization and gameplay? People are really worried about this game.


Doesn't really give anyone the right to bite at eachother's faces. But I'm worried too, I'm keeping my hype down and my expectations low for the most part. The only thing I'm worried about Is the optimization they kept pushing Into our faces for the past year.

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Kaskaum said:

I heard the game runs on 900P on XONE and 1080P on PS4.


Damn, welp, time to cancel my PC pre order and boycott this game

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