Mayhem 2016 poll: No more reservations, texture pack incoming

[Impie]

Magnusblitz said:

Difficulty is a lot more than just raw monster numbers - type of monsters, placement of monsters, etc all matters as well. Like Marcaek said, MAP01 being 10 monster doesn't mean it needs to just be 10 imps and zombiemen, it can be 10 cyberdemons or 10 arch-viles or whatever.

I realize that, but the numbers still coincide with the map slot, and theoretically the difficulty progression. Unless you're really gonna put ten archviles on map 1 and call it a walk in the park. And if the numbers have little or nothing to do with the difficulty curve, then there's probably not much point to the limitation at all. 16 monsters per map would be more interesting I think, especially since the main draw in the thread seems to be Map01 so far.

I'm not even too terribly sure about 160 things -- it'd depend on the map size I guess -- but at least that forces a balance of hazards vs decorations, etc, across ALL maps.

Urthar said:

I assumed 160 things would be an upper limit to encourage small fast maps, that would be quick to build, test and fix. Having to use exactly 160 things in all circumstances seems a bit weird.

Could be funny at least, if someone ends up with a map that uses a shit-ton of floorlamps.

[kuchitsu]

Inkie said:

Incoming map01 with 10 revenants

You must berzerk punch them all

Exactly why it sounds bad to me. I think most people in the early slots will make extremely annoying and\or tedious maps to prolong them as much as possible. Like in 1024 wads people were making teleport ambushes in every room.

[Dragonfly]

kuchitsu said:

Exactly why it sounds bad to me. I think most people in the early slots will make extremely annoying and\or tedious maps to prolong them as much as possible. Like in 1024 wads people were making teleport ambushes in every room.

It is odd how people's tastes vary a lot. I find 1024.wad very enjoyable.

I think the monster x 10 limitation provides the ability for mappers to be creative with their monster usage, berserking 10x Revenants wouldn't be a bad experience if the mapper did it right, although I do agree it's a little farfetched for map01 though.

Perhaps with the lower monster counts people could make more puzzle-oriented maps with archviles that aren't supposed to be killed, or cyberdemon-dodging antics as seen in map01 and map06 of Ancient Aliens.

[pcorf]

Darkening E2 textures
200 things max
4 secrets minimum per level
Limit Removing or Boom Compatible

[Dragonfly]

pcorf said:

4 secrets minimum per level

I really like this particular idea.

[baja blast rd.]

'Zerking ten revenants sounds like fun to me. (Punching mancubuses is also surprisingly fun. (Yes, in ports with classic blockmap behavior.)) A ten-AV map can indeed be a walk in the park with RL/PR/BFG, and with some of the AVs fought in small numbers with ample cover before that, though that might screw with continuous progression for people who care about that.

A better restriction, imo, would be "under x monsters OR over y monsters" -- with [x,y] being more traditional monster counts, maybe <50 or >300 or something.

An improvement to the 160 things restriction is 160 things in the "player starts", "teleports", "monsters", "weapons", "ammunition", "health and armor", "powerups", and "keys" categories. That is a mouthful but it's still a very concise limitation. Including decorations in the limit does not make a lot of sense, since they are functionally a lot like textures that may or may not block you -- even though it's not the worst thing in the world if there are no maps with random trees in the middle of hectic battles . . . If you want you can include barrels in the counted things, because they are the only decoration that should meaningfully affect gameplay.

[dobu gabu maru]

Reminder that I already claimed MAP01 :P I think I can make it entertaining, even for Memfis.

Anyway, after peeking through the Darkening 2 set, I'm hopeful that wins.

[Jaws In Space]

I like Mapslot X 10 = monster count

[Archi]

Around 10 votes for only Darkening 2 out of sudden? Nice.

[Inkie]

dobu gabu maru said:

Reminder that I already claimed MAP01 :P I think I can make it entertaining, even for Memfis.

Anyway, after peeking through the Darkening 2 set, I'm hopeful that wins.

Guess we're berzerk punching 20 revenents, then :P

[Cynical]

Inkie said:

Guess we're berzerk punching 20 revenents, then :P

Why are you guys so hung up on punching Revs? That shouldn't be seen as some big novelty; that should be your standard way of killing small numbers of them if you've got a Zerk.

A 10-monster Tyson map would be better done with HKs and Viles.

[Marcaek]

Cynical said:

Why are you guys so hung up on punching Revs? That shouldn't be seen as some big novelty; that should be your standard way of killing small numbers of them if you've got a Zerk.

A 10-monster Tyson map would be better done with HKs and Viles.

Absolutely. Mix it up, do something DIFFERENT woah

[dobu gabu maru]

Marcaek said:

Absolutely. Mix it up, do something DIFFERENT woah

So... punching revenants with unberserked fists, got it.

[ukiro]

As neat as it feels that Darkening E2 assets are still somehow considered, I will eventually release another texture set that is much much better. But since it's been like 15 years so far and it's not out yet, please don't hold your breath.

[Marcaek]

man i somehow missed the quake 2 resource i probably would have added it too oh well

[Marcaek]

Someone recently mentioned to me that perhaps taking the 3 top picks and having each used in different episodes would be interesting. I kind of agree, but I'd like to know what everyone else thinks? We could hash out what pack goes in what cluster easily enough later.

[AD_79]

I like that idea.

[dobu gabu maru]

Could be potentially more work for you, but at least everybody wins in that scenario.

[Angry Saint]

Good idea!

[kuchitsu]

The overall result might be too haphazard with three vastly different texture sets. In Mayhem 2014 it was nice how it almost had a strong unifying theme.

Making sumbissions slot-specific also might mean more problems with people promising to make maps and then not sending anything (which is also why 160 things should win). And Mayhem really doesn't need even more factors that can slow it down.

[Cynical]

Or you just use skipmaps if all else fails.

160 things is a really dumb restriction.

[Marcaek]

I already have some backup plans lined up. Skip maps are a non-solution.

[Marcaek]

Alright so after thinking over the issues raised and seeing how close the votes are (it's like 10-11 atm) I think what I'm going to do is allow contributors to decide which limit they want to use. Enough people are clearly interested in both, and it will take care of the concerns about missing maps due to people pulling out with regards to the mapslot limit, and keeps the maps from potentially being too samey in terms of the 160 things.

Given the texture voting also being so close, I'm inclined to merge the 2 highest picks as well, since mixing resources can yield interesting results IMO. Compromise is a good thing some times!

[Marcaek]

Ok, going ahead with that plan then. IF you want to reserve a slot for the mapslot gimmick the time is now. You still can during June but the sooner the better.

NOTE: only reserve what you can make! I'm limiting reservations to 2 per person, don't hog what you can't handle.

[Breezeep]

I may consider reserving mapslots 05 and 17. We'll see how this turns out.

[dobu gabu maru]

MAP01 BABY. 10 MONSTERS. I'M RRRRRRRREADY.

[Archi]

Let's start with map25.

[Argent Agent]

I'll take MAP08 and MAP20.

[Marcaek]

sorry [ARG] only 2 at a time you can get 08 if nobody claims it later tho

[Chainie]

Can i take map02 slot?