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Caine

it is NOT Old School?! did you all forget?

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Optimus said:

I just found the classic Doom level secrets. They are very badly put, every soldier is those soldiers shooting projectiles, very hard. They should have put zombies for simple soldiers and those projectile zombies in the place of shotgunners. Also, lot's of texture misalignment and something to please the masses.

Also you realize, when I have to backtrack for health in those maps, I realize how slower the movement is. That's another reason backtracking worked in Doom because you sprinted like hell. Now it's boring. You realize how the modern mechanics and monster balance of Doom 4 don't work in the oldschool maps.

But anyway, I like the game more as I play. I am after the Cyberdemon now.

p.s. I do agree violence and darkness is not what made Doom for me in the past. Violence? There is plenty in modern FPS! Maybe not with fatalities, but it's not like we ask for our games to be more violent, not that we miss that. Darkness? Just see the contrast when you discover the classic Doom secret maps in Doom 4. From very dark area where you can't see anything sometimes, you entered into bright colors. There were also dark areas in classic Doom, but generally I had a more clear idea of the environment and the enemies in front of me. It's more fun to navigate the classic levels in Doom 4 at least for the fact that I can easily understand my space and see the enemies (which work badly in these maps).


didnt play those yet but it seems all a game needs nowadays is gory fatalities and people are hyped. skill Not needed anymore.

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I keep trying to make a post about this thread, but I keep coming to the end of "just because you can't fap to it doesn't mean everyone else is wrong."

I dunno. For some reason this guy's posts make me think that you really, really don't want to be anywhere near his box of Doom 2.

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julz_d said:

Isn't that the drug that causes men to grow breasts?


No, it's an anti-psychotic that's been found to be useful in managing some of the symptoms of autism.

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Caine said:

registered 15 says all

Are you seriously gonna use the date you registered here as leverage for your arguments?

Caine said:

didnt play those yet but it seems all a game needs nowadays is gory fatalities and people are hyped. skill Not needed anymore.

Have you even seen footage of the game(I mean, REALLY seen it, not just the first 5 seconds of a shitty let's play)? There's tons of projectile dodging and target prioritizing in the game. Even if it's not as refined as classic Doom, it's still a heck of a lot more complex than your run of the mill modern FPS. Hell, I'd go as far as saying that it reminds me a lot of Quake 2 in a way.
You have to put things in perspective. A perfect gem like the classic Doom games is a one in a million thing. So why not enjoy the new game for what it is?

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This is the finest and most high-quality thread on all of Doomworld. I rate it a perfect 5/7.

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HorrorMovieGuy said:

There's tons of projectile dodging and target prioritizing in the game. Even if it's not as refined as classic Doom


I think people in this thread really over rate the game play of classic doom. First it was high skill and now its refined? Did we all play the same doom? Projectiles in classic doom are so easy to dodge you could stop and have a picnic on the battle field.

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Caine said:

didnt play those yet but it seems all a game needs nowadays is gory fatalities and people are hyped. skill Not needed anymore.


Cuz you definitely don't need skill to dodge high speed projectiles and explore.
You're probably one of those Gaming Hipsters who think games post- 2003 all suck.

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jazzmaster9 said:

Cuz you definitely don't need skill to dodge high speed projectiles and explore.
You're probably one of those Gaming Hipsters who think games post- 2003 all suck.



No, most games past 2000 suck. Though 2002 is a exception I suppose, Morrowind made up all the bad games that came out that year.

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Are you seriously gonna use the date you registered here as leverage for your arguments?


It's not a coincidence most low quality posts in this topic are from 2014 reg dates or closer. Disagreeing is fine, but you have to be blind if you can't see the difference between "HAHAHAHAHAHA you suck balls, this is Doom as it should be" from a 2015 poster and "glory kills reward aggressive play" from a 2001 poster. No absolute, but there is a correlation. Besides, the OP specifically asked for old school gamers to comment, and we have self-professed teenagers coming in here to try to bust his nuts.

The overall reaction to this thread says more about the respondants than OP, to be honest. Doom 2016 is not old school. That's undeniable and that's all the topic was about. Yet people yell and scream in protest, as if "old school" was a badge of honor rather than a characteristic.

In a particularly dumbfounding leap of logic, many have defended the supposed oldschoolness of nuDoom by pointing out the way classic Doom did things was stupid... What?

For a game supposedly so great, fans sure are insecure about anyone having a different opinion.

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Phml said:

nuDoom


Excess exposure to the Thief community (and the metal scene, let's be honest) has made me immediately suspicious of anyone who unironically attaches "nu-" to modern sequels or whatever.

Of course it's Phml so his opinion is pre-dismissed.

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julz_d said:

Isn't that the drug that causes men to grow breasts?


I suppose that means Caine will eventually look like a Mancubus? Because, clearly, he probably looks like a basement dweller or keyboard warrior IRL from all the anger being thrown at us.

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In all honesty I find some of the worst, most annoying people, the really unpleasant ones who seem convinced they're smarter than us because we don't hate everything, tend to be skinny, wiry little bastards with bad haircuts and a slightly crazed look to their eyes.

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CyberDemonEmpress said:

No, most games past 2000 suck. Though 2002 is a exception I suppose, Morrowind made up all the bad games that came out that year.


Dark Souls 1-3
BloodBorne
Demon Souls
Fallout 3
Far Cry: Blood Dragon
Crysis
Command and COnquer: Zero Hour
Borderlands 2
Mass Effect 1-3
Medal of Honor: Airborne
Call of Duty 1
CoD: Black Ops
Diablo 3
Mortal Kombat 9
Doom 3
Doom 4
Quake 4
Bioshock
Bioshock Infinite
Shadows of Mordor
Dragon Age
Link between worlds
... etc. (I don't want to make a wall of text_


Pre-2000 also had a lot of crap. So it's not a matter of Gaming Generation

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Man don't even bother. Anyone who actually believes "most games past 2000 suck" is beyond reason.

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Most games after 2004 do suck, most games are shitty point and click bigfish games, mobile phone games, and other trash clickbait on steam and mobile phone markets. The vast vast majority of the *thousands* of games released each year are in fact pretty garbage. You also have thousands of re-releases of old shit on steam.

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Let me rephrase.

Anyone who actually believes "most games past <year> suck" are beyond reason.

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dethtoll said:

Let me rephrase.

Anyone who actually believes "most games past <year> suck" are beyond reason.

Mechazawa is beyond reason for unrelated issues, but it sure does help prove the point.

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dethtoll said:

Let me rephrase.

Anyone who actually believes "most games past <year> suck" are beyond reason.


I have no idea what really causes people to generalize so hard about things. Games never went from great to bad.

There's always been bad games and there's always been great games.

People who put some arbitrary distinction when "games turned to trash" either actually don't play video games, or are hella boring people with nothing interesting to say on the topic.

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So... some people don't like Doom '16? That's cool. Weird, but cool. Though I suggest actually playing the game before you write of off as 'post-2000 simplified FPS' or whatever. Skepticism is healthy, wilful ignorance is actually kind of frustrating to deal with.

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I'm not quite sure most of the people who dislike it have actually played any of the campaign.

Most of the criticism still seems to go towards multiplayer and Snapmap (both of which I can agree on).

The campaign itself is like another beast entirely. It's head and shoulders above the other two features of the game. The campaign is, if not 100% Doom, at least 80% Doom and 20% Quake 1 - which is nothing to sneeze at.

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i played further and i dunno why people dont see why the mechanism is fucked up! yeah it's still a nice game but i prefer MUCH MORE the old system which gave you DECISIONS:

you dont find many health packs for example so you bet to HAVE to glorykill to get some health and not die cause there are not many pickups.
in Classic Doom 1 + 2 on higher difficulty it was great as you could still decide how to play, trying to rush through and avoiding or killing tactically (strafing etc.) the incoming fire, decide which enemies to kill first OR try to hide and shoot, go slower and manage health packs (back track, find secrets etc.) or mix both ways.

now you have to nearly always go through and glorykill so you can get health back to rush through the next arena....

dont tell me this is freedom of play. i dont say it's shit, but i prefer and hoped for the past mechanics. gives you more freedom and replayvalue.

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Caine said:

i played further and i dunno why people dont see why the mechanism is fucked up! yeah it's still a nice game but i prefer MUCH MORE the old system which gave you DECISIONS:

you dont find many health packs for example so you bet to HAVE to glorykill to get some health and not die cause there are not many pickups.
in Classic Doom 1 + 2 on higher difficulty it was great as you could still decide how to play, trying to rush through and avoiding or killing tactically (strafing etc.) the incoming fire, decide which enemies to kill first OR try to hide and shoot, go slower and manage health packs (back track, find secrets etc.) or mix both ways.

now you have to nearly always go through and glorykill so you can get health back to rush through the next arena....

dont tell me this is freedom of play. i dont say it's shit, but i prefer and hoped for the past mechanics. gives you more freedom and replayvalue.

sorry about your luck but it's a new game, you'll need to accept that or move on. I'm very happy with The new rendition that is Doom 4 Personally, even SnapMap is growing on me.

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Caine said:

i played further and i dunno why people dont see why the mechanism is fucked up! yeah it's still a nice game but i prefer MUCH MORE the old system which gave you DECISIONS:

you dont find many health packs for example so you bet to HAVE to glorykill to get some health and not die cause there are not many pickups.
in Classic Doom 1 + 2 on higher difficulty it was great as you could still decide how to play, trying to rush through and avoiding or killing tactically (strafing etc.) the incoming fire, decide which enemies to kill first OR try to hide and shoot, go slower and manage health packs (back track, find secrets etc.) or mix both ways.

now you have to nearly always go through and glorykill so you can get health back to rush through the next arena....

dont tell me this is freedom of play. i dont say it's shit, but i prefer and hoped for the past mechanics. gives you more freedom and replayvalue.

The only time I ever needed to glory kill was when very low on health (one hit from death low), generally it has mixed well so far by using health packs and armor throughout the levels (or saving some to go back to later if needed).

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jazzmaster9 said:

Dark Souls 1-3
BloodBorne
Demon Souls
Fallout 3
Far Cry: Blood Dragon
Crysis
Command and COnquer: Zero Hour
Borderlands 2
Mass Effect 1-3
Medal of Honor: Airborne
Call of Duty 1
CoD: Black Ops
Diablo 3
Mortal Kombat 9
Doom 3
Doom 4
Quake 4
Bioshock
Bioshock Infinite
Shadows of Mordor
Dragon Age
Link between worlds


BioShock, Doom 3. New Vegas. That is all. Lol. I kid I kid..but still those games rule!

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Caine said:

i played further and i dunno why people dont see why the mechanism is fucked up! yeah it's still a nice game but i prefer MUCH MORE the old system which gave you DECISIONS:

you dont find many health packs for example so you bet to HAVE to glorykill to get some health and not die cause there are not many pickups.
in Classic Doom 1 + 2 on higher difficulty it was great as you could still decide how to play, trying to rush through and avoiding or killing tactically (strafing etc.) the incoming fire, decide which enemies to kill first OR try to hide and shoot, go slower and manage health packs (back track, find secrets etc.) or mix both ways.

now you have to nearly always go through and glorykill so you can get health back to rush through the next arena....

dont tell me this is freedom of play. i dont say it's shit, but i prefer and hoped for the past mechanics. gives you more freedom and replayvalue.


Actually I was on the fence about glory kills at first but after spending a large chunk of time playing I can safely say they were a terrible decision aimed precisely at console gamers. They're a free kill and even on ultra nightmare you'll never have a problem with ammo.....ever. If you're quick enough you'll always have health, too. I've also NEVER been hurt from the back while doing them, this is most visible with barons, as if you initiate a GK and pay attention they actually will stand there until you're finished, unless they were already mid jump or doing something similar when you initiated the animation. Pure marketing resulting in bad design, pure and simple. GKs have gotten me out of so many bad situations it's a bit comical, because I should've been punished for bad play and instead was rewarded.

They've gotten it half-right, but the modern pandering to low intelligence, skillless gamers is hurting the game as a whole.

Still love dat game doh

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dethtoll said:

Let me rephrase.

Anyone who actually believes "most games past <year> suck" are beyond reason.


You underestimate just how many bad games there are out there. Only a small minority of them are played by a significant group of people; much less at the same time being good games. It is like if I said most custom wads suck; I am not wrong about that; the vast majority are garbage. The same phenomena holds true for games in general.

Also, why are people still whining about glory kill? Don't you guys got something better to do? (He says as he defends himself from a random comment from a random nobody)

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Mechazawa said:

Also, why are people still whining about glory kill? Don't you guys got something better to do? (He says as he defends himself from a random comment from a random nobody)


Glory kills remind them of Brutal Doom, which is the worst thing to happen to the Doom community. /s

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