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hardcore_gamer

Bethesda lied to us, you can't create proper single player maps

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Snapmap has a 2 weapon limit which you can't disable. This alone makes it completely impossible to make good SP missions because the SP is balanced around the fact that certain guns are good against certain types of enemies. It also shows how little the snapmap devs care about SP. I also played the E1M2 remake that they teased in the SP footage but did not show us. Now I know why they did not. It's total shit. It barely looks anything like the original at all, only has 2 weapons in the whole map, and has lazy and uninteresting enemy placement. I was massively let down by it.

Look, if they had just said in advance that snapmap is mostly for multiplayer that would have been ok. But they marketed the game to make it appear as if snapmap was also good for creating SP missions. The way I see it this is basically lying.

I am so pissed right now. I was looking forward to creating some nice SP missions :(

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The reasoning is pretty simple, even if it is bullshit.
No weapon wheel for multiplayer
SnapMap supports multiplayer.
They know that fumbling through 10 or so weapons with a controller would be a nightmare without the wheel, so they slap on a weapon limit.

Great way to ruin any mode/creativity.

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The Civ said:

The reasoning is pretty simple, even if it is bullshit.
No weapon wheel for multiplayer
SnapMap supports multiplayer.
They know that fumbling through 10 or so weapons with a controller would be a nightmare without the wheel, so they slap on a weapon limit.

Great way to ruin any mode/creativity.


Is this just your own personal guess or something they have actually said? Because if this is actually true I would be legit tempted to changing my steam review to negative just out of spite.

EDIT: And since the fuck when has it been hard to cycle through lots of guns with a controller? Doom 3 had lots of weapons at once even on consoles.

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Yeah, this is definitely gonna be a console purchase for me. The lack of proper modding tools coupled with this makes me glad I held out for reviews and user feedback before determining what platform to get it on, if any.

Ah well. Classic Doom is still king. :D

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Nems said:

Yeah, this is definitely gonna be a console purchase for me. The lack of proper modding tools coupled with this makes me glad I held out for reviews and user feedback before determining what platform to get it on, if any.

Ah well. Classic Doom is still king. :D


Not sure why you would rather want to have it on console. The normal SP is still great and I can't imagine it playing better on a controller.

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The fuck where they thinking? Don't answer that.

Without proper weapon variety, the snap-map isn't going to work with SP maps, unless EVERY map has a spot where you can switch out weapon loadouts.


Ugh.


*EDIT*

Played an official snapmap where you gotta kill errything real fast. :P

I did notice that you can use weapon mods... after a fashion. Basically the weapon list has say a Combat Shotgun, and a Combat Shotgun(3 shot mod), or Gatling Gun, Gatling Gun (Turret mod). This allows for some basic mod usage I guess. Also you can place weapons in the world, but you are still restricted to 2.

What I'm trying to say is that I'm a sad fuckin panda.

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I also hate the fact that you can't use the single player pistol for some reason. So snapmap technically doesn't even have all the guns.

On the bright side, I SUPPOSE you could balance a map by splitting the guns into primaries (shotguns, machine guns, plasma) and secondaries (rocket launcher, railgun, etc). Plus the special weapons like the chainsaw and bfg have their own separate slot so perhaps that ignores the 2 weapon limit? Unless that's different as well in snapmap.

Can NOBODY here remove the 2 weapon limit? Is it 100% confirmed that it's not possible to do?

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DooM_RO said:

Wait...did you just say there is a 2 weapon limit?!


Not in the main SP campaign, but in snapmap there is. It appears that snapmap is based directly of the MP portion of the game which by default has a 2 weapon limit. This means it's basically not possible to create gameplay similar to what is found in the main SP campaign.

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You actually thought Bethesda was going to give us what we wanted? Please, this whole SnapMap thing has been all talk but no show since it was first unveiled, it was a given.

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I mean in their defense it's not as if expecting snapmap to give us the ability to create levels on par with the ones in the campaign was ever realistic to begin with. I just created my first level which I rushed so it wasn't that great, but I can already tell how with enough creativity you could probably create something at least semi-decent. The key is using props and particles to change the feel and layout of each individual room.

Also is it just me or is it not possible to turn off glory kill highlights in snapmap?

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But that is how they sold the idea of SnapMap, they made it sound as if it was going to be an integrated level designer with endless possibilities. Even if it is more multiplayer-oriented, there are still limitations to the creative process. These limitations are things you'd see in a console port, not on PC.

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jdagenet said:

But that is how they sold the idea of SnapMap, they made it sound as if it was going to be an integrated level designer with endless possibilities. Even if it is more multiplayer-oriented, there are still limitations to the creative process. These limitations are things you'd see in a console port, not on PC.


This is the problem with having cross platform support. It lowers the potential of PC users.

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I had to look it up so here it is.


Bethesda Softworks official SnapMAp Preview @ 14:45

https://youtu.be/QuxmnKyabpg?t=885

Question from stream:
Do you have to start with a gun or a loadout?

Tom Mustain:

The answer is no, you don't have to start with loadouts.

You can start in any way you want.

You can start the user with no gun, you can start the user with multiple guns, you can set it up where you have to pick it up from around the world.

Its all completely inside control of the editor.

==

The nice thing is that technically he was not lying. You can start the user without any gun. You can pick up guns from around the world (but you have to drop your existing one if you already have two). And multiple guns are.. 2 guns.

Look at the face of that weasel though; it was a well prepared non answer.

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redrage said:

I had to look it up so here it is.


Bethesda Softworks official SnapMAp Preview @ 14:45

https://youtu.be/QuxmnKyabpg?t=885

Question from stream:
Do you have to start with a gun or a loadout?

Tom Mustain:

The answer is no, you don't have to start with loadouts.

You can start in any way you want.

You can start the user with no gun, you can start the user with multiple guns, you can set it up where you have to pick it up from around the world.

Its all completely inside control of the editor.

==

The nice thing is that technically he was not lying. You can start the user without any gun. You can pick up guns from around the world (but you have to drop your existing one if you already have two). And multiple guns are.. 2 guns.

Look at the face of that weasel though; it was a well prepared non answer.


Bullshit like this is one of the key reasons I am so pissed. It's how they are blatantly making it appear as if snapmap can do things that it actually can't do. They were misleading people on purpose. I can forgive them for not being able to make snapmap work in the same way as an actual editor since that would not have been realistic, but I never forgive lying. Which let's be honest, is pretty much what they did.

EDIT: Actually, your claim that he technically did not lie isn't really true. The word "multiple" doesn't stand for 2 items. People use the word "couple" or "pair" when dealing with 2 times. The word "multiple" implies 3+. So actually I would argue that he did in fact just flat out lie.

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hardcore_gamer said:

The word "multiple" doesn't stand for 2 items. People use the word "couple" or "pair" when dealing with 2 times. The word "multiple" implies 3+.

You're an idiot.

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dew said:

You're an idiot.


The fact of the matter is that people asked him if they could start the player without loadouts and yet said yes which is massively dishonest. People can split hairs all they want and say he technically did not lie but he was using misleading wording.

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Good. That's a fairly agreeable statement which doesn't require a person to denounce mathematics. Carry on.

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I would like them to implement a weapon wheel for snap map, even if we've to scrpt in multible weapons our selves shuffling though each weapon one at a time sucks. Ya I'd like to see the pistol and chainsaw as well. and more ability to mess with player and gun values.(Edit)

MetroidJunkie said:

why not have the wheel be real-time of multiplayer? That guy said it himself on, I believe, Amazon's stream. Once muscle memory kicks in, you can just tap the button and flick the analog stick in that direction and instantly switch.

This is what I hope to see.

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This could have been avoided with a simple checkmark, "Single Player Only", disabling it from Multiplayer and, thus, allowing the slow-mo of the wheel. Or why not have the wheel be real-time of multiplayer? That guy said it himself on, I believe, Amazon's stream. Once muscle memory kicks in, you can just tap the button and flick the analog stick in that direction and instantly switch.

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Saying people CAN'T make good single player levels is BS. I made what I consider to be a pretty damn fine level on my first attempt, and I made it fairly complicated too, from the scripting side of things. So what if there's a two weapon limit? That's just game design challenge when approaching creation of a map. AND if you really wanted to make a larger loadout, I can think of a few ways to use player input to add in a couple extra guns you could swap to. There is a lot of possibilities in SnapMap, you just have to learn their scripting setup.

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NecrumWarrior said:

Saying people CAN'T make good single player levels is BS. I made what I consider to be a pretty damn fine level on my first attempt, and I made it fairly complicated too, from the scripting side of things. So what if there's a two weapon limit? That's just game design challenge when approaching creation of a map. AND if you really wanted to make a larger loadout, I can think of a few ways to use player input to add in a couple extra guns you could swap to. There is a lot of possibilities in SnapMap, you just have to learn their scripting setup.

Dropping X gun to pick up Y gun at the start of a map, only to need gun X half-way through or towards the end of a map just sucks. People like myself who have never modded before would be grateful for the weapon loadouts to be done away with and the weapon wheel brought back in with SnapMap.

This two weapon limit has ruined my multiplayer and SnapMap experience. Such a stupid idea to begin with. Thanks for disappointing, Bethesda.

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Shredder said:

Dropping X gun to pick up Y gun at the start of a map, only to need gun X half-way through or towards the end of a map just sucks. People like myself who have never modded before would be grateful for the weapon loadouts to be done away with and the weapon wheel brought back in with SnapMap.

This two weapon limit has ruined my multiplayer and SnapMap experience. Such a stupid idea to begin with. Thanks for disappointing, Bethesda.

https://www.doomworld.com/vb/snapmap/87972-you-can-have-more-than-2-weapons-in-snapmap/
Someone figured it out. It may not have the wheel but it does allow for every weapon to be carried. The unfortunate side effect is that every weapon fully reloads on switch, but there may be a solution to that even, though I can already tell it would be quite a pain to implement. I do agree that a toggle for more weapons would be great. Maybe id will include such a thing in content updates for SnapMap, since they do plan to add onto it.

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NecrumWarrior said:

https://www.doomworld.com/vb/snapmap/87972-you-can-have-more-than-2-weapons-in-snapmap/
Someone figured it out. It may not have the wheel but it does allow for every weapon to be carried. The unfortunate side effect is that every weapon fully reloads on switch, but there may be a solution to that even, though I can already tell it would be quite a pain to implement. I do agree that a toggle for more weapons would be great. Maybe id will include such a thing in content updates for SnapMap, since they do plan to add onto it.

Cool! Thanks, NecrumWarrior. This could lead to great things, theoretically anyway.

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As I keep using the editor I must admit that my original reaction was somewhat of a knee-jerk. There are considerable single player options to use here. I just could not help but feel completely baffled at the lack of multi-weapon option. I really hope they patch it in.

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hardcore_gamer said:

As I keep using the editor I must admit that my original reaction was somewhat of a knee-jerk. There are considerable single player options to use here. I just could not help but feel completely baffled at the lack of multi-weapon option. I really hope they patch it in.

Yeah, I feel the same. I've been very positive about the game ever since it was first announced, but this weapon limit really turned me off, it really needs a serious patch that allow us a weapon wheel.

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ery disappointed with SnapMap. Not so much SnapMap in itself, bur rather the fact that id focused on this rather than developing proper modding tools. From a modder's perpsective it feels akin to Apple deciding to scrap Logic in favor of pushing Garage Band harder.

The thing is just way too prefab-dependant and rigid from a level design perspective. It's easy to see just how much people are struggling with recreating the fundamental, basic layouts of the original Doom maps they're trying to recreate. You hit the ceiling for what you can pull off depressingly fast with these tools. Compare this to the Creation Kit for Skyrim (from purely a level design perspective, not any of the other aspects), that one is also built upon the same principles of prefab tilesets with pieces for 2/3/4-way corridors and such, but it's way more open ended and flexible on top of that. I had a lot of fun circumventing limitations and thinking outside the box when doing level design for Skyrim (and even managed to create a pretty damn faithful E1M1 duplicate with Dwemer assets), but I can tell straight away that I'm going to find no such joy with SnapMap.

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