Doom vs Duke Nukem Forever

[DooMancuBus]

I'm glad everyone liked the Doom Reboot! Even some review sites (while many has yet to review fully) and a whole lot of Players and (old and new) Doom fans loved the whole game. 93% steam reviews, and a lot of positive metacritc user reviews praised the Doom reboot as it plays in the spirit of classic doom games from the 90's while mixing the game mechanics, old and new. Duke Nukem Forever on the other hand is the abomination and outdated shit of the game ruined by either 3D Realms or Gearbox (I don't know which actually did it), with two or four weapon limit, no armor, health, classic item, key pickups and lazy and crappy gameplay mechanics. While two games were in development hell for a long time, Doom did the best of the best by id software's remaining talented employees without John Carmack and John Romero, Duke Nukem lost it's rights as a legendary first person shooter after Duke Nukem 3D, and now it's in limbo.


Can you guys give a good detail as to why Duke Nukem failed compared to DOOM?

[Rampy470]

DNF got seriously hyped up for over a decade with pre-release content. Doom didn't.

DNF dumbed the gameplay down until it seemed like it was trying to get into bed with modern military shooters. Doom didn't.

Doom's development, while protracted, was much less troubled than DNf's.

There's other stuff too, but that's what comes to mind.

[julz_d]

Hey you're back. See doom is not dead after all. I don't know if I can say the same about Duke Nukem. But to be honest I enjoyed Duke Nukem forever and had a nice DLC too. The thing that killed it for me was the really long load times.

[DecemberMan]

Despite all the problems DNF has, I still think it is a decent game, highly underrated. That said, it doesn't hold a candle to DooM.

[Caine]

dnf as a game itself is ok. but as a sequel to duke3d a complete disaster. this was the point i lost faith in fps devs who try to continue old id's.

[june gloom]

I think they're two different things attempting two different things.

DNF was never meant to be retro; it was intended to be a sequel to a game that was contemporary at the time. It only feels like a throwback because George Broussard's insistence on copying features from other games resulted in a stratum of 10 years of FPS gaming history (1996-2006.) So it's a weird mishmash of stuff like Half-Life and Halo. And then it didn't come out for another five years, and by release it seemed even more dated.

Doom 2016 by contrast is intentionally a retromodern shooter in the vein of Shadow Warrior 2013, Rise of the Triad 2013 and Wolfenstein: The New Order. It has little modernist touches and gameplay conceits -- like the loadouts in multi -- but has all the fast-paced gameplay and ultra-violence of the 90s. It draws a lot of clear influence from Doom 3, but comes off feeling more like what people wanted Doom 3 to be.

tl;dr D16 is a loveletter from a bygone era; DNF is a relic from that era.

[VGamingJunkie]

Doom 2016 is a 90's shooter enhanced with modern hardware capabilities, Duke Nukem Forever's more like a frankenstein's monster of several different eras. Basically, what dethtoll said.

[Fisheth]

My best guess with Doom and Duke Nukem Forever is Doom didn't have all the prerelease hype that DNF had. DNF had Twelve years of "This is coming guys" and built up to levels of nonsensical expectations. Doom appeared out of nowhere with leaked Screenshots which were thankfully from and older build and the beta was advertised on copies of Wolf New Order and then it had a quake con showing and then an E3 showing of the next year.

DNF was more like a frankenstein's monster in comparison to Doom. It was well, an amalgamation of many different era's where as Doom has what it wants to be in it's sights instead of being jumbled together bits from many different builds that Gearbox shunted together to make a complete product.

[PsychoGoatee]

Comparing DNF (a game from 5 years ago) with Rage would be a more fair comparison, another 2011 game.

I really like DNF, it was fun to me, an enjoyable romp in the Half-Life 2 campaign mold. With lots of fun stuff like the best working pinball machine in a video game! And lots of great Jon St. John voice acting. And I actually enjoyed the combat, the pipebomb feels great, lots of jumping and fun level design at times.

I'd love to see a new Duke game take some pointers from DOOM, no weapon limit, bigger less linear levels etc, but putting the burden of comparing DNF to this recent great game is just piling on to the most overly bashed game of all time. Which was fun in it's own right in my book.

[VGamingJunkie]

I'm not sure how true this is but Randy of Gearbox essentially passed the buck when I talked to him about DNF by saying it was 3DRealms' vision. Hopefully, that means whatever Duke Nukem game he makes next is closer to DOOM than Duke Nukem Forever. I'm no thin skinned SJW but, if you're going to crank up the obscene humor, there should be something behind that. Duke 3D backed it up with a solid shooter. In Forever's case, it looks like they were hoping their target audience would be immature enough to not notice the mediocrity.

[Pencil of Doom]

DNF is fine, the MP is good to play, the campaign, well not so much, but it still has it's hilarious and funny moments, the DLC however has a much better campaign, that it reminds me of DN3D's 2nd episode, as for Doom, sure it had a lot of trouble, but it was able to overcome any obstacles in its way and the 2016 game is what we got, a great game that focuses on fast-paced action, gory and bloody and is very fun to play.
The problem to why DNF failed to deliver the greatest Duke game was because it was too hyped, George Broussard wanted DNF to be the perfect Duke game and sequel to DN3D, but failed and then this shit happened, 3DRealms got fucked up and then sold the rights to Shitbox and finally we got DNF in the state it shouldn't be.
Not to mention the bs that's happening to the HTTK collection because of Shitbox.

[Tritnew]

I thought DNF was decent, the campaign had a nice pacing, and the game was pretty damn hard on Come Get Some, and especially on Damn, I'm Good. But the MP Is very much GREAT, Including the DLC, which was suppose to be In the campaign, but of course, Gaerbex had to make It Into DLC for money, and to see If fans would eventually buy It.

While DOOM, Is pretty much GOTY for me, and It's much different from shooters today. The pacing Is GREAT compared to DNF's, and overall speed and duration of the campaign Is amazing. The MP for DOOM Is alright, It feels like DOOM, It feels like your average Id Software MP, expect that It takes elements from COD due to It being developed by the same company that worked on COD's MP, which Is the main reason why It didn't get praise at first.

So there you have It, that's how I feel about this. DNF gets a 7/10 while DOOM gets a 10/10 from me.

EDIT: Because, dead meme that was just a joke added to this post was taken seriously.

[Arrrcee]

I don't think there is much of a comparison there, unfortunately for Duke.

[HavoX]

id did the right thing to restart development on Doom 4 from scratch and the game became a reboot of Doom. I'd hate to think what might happen if that didn't happen and we did get Doom 4, but the game was too similar to CoD... :(

Tritnew said:

Sincerely,

JoeKilledKenney2016

Why are you putting so much emphasis on the "Sincerely, JoeKilledKenney2016"? You're doing nothing but beating a dead horse.

[Tritnew]

HavoX said:

Why are you putting so much emphasis on the "Sincerely, JoeKilledKenney2016"? You're doing nothing but beating a dead horse.

You basically explained the kind of people who use memes to a extent.

[Caine]

HavoX said:

id did the right thing to restart development on Doom 4 from scratch and the game became a reboot of Doom. I'd hate to think what might happen if that didn't happen and we did get Doom 4, but the game was too similar to CoD... :(

Why are you putting so much emphasis on the "Sincerely, JoeKilledKenney2016"? You're doing nothing but beating a dead horse.

i dunno how stupid devs can be to wanna have made a CoD similar doom game, for real.... imagine you do a CoD game to a Doom 1 or 2 classic game...

[MrDeAD1313]

HavoX said:

Why are you putting so much emphasis on the "Sincerely, JoeKilledKenney2016"? You're doing nothing but beating a dead horse.

I thought it was funny :)

[[McD] James]

I really hated DNF. The textures were grainy, the loading times were horrendous, the frame rate frequently dropped, the movement was clunky, and the modern conventions of weapon limits and regenerating health just felt grossly out of place.

[HavoX]

Tritnew said:

You basically explained the kind of people who use memes to a extent.

MrDeAD1313 said:

I thought it was funny :)

But it was just one thread. After that, it got old very quickly.

[Caine]

Ajora said:

I really hated DNF. The textures were grainy, the loading times were horrendous, the frame rate frequently dropped, the movement was clunky, and the modern conventions of weapon limits and regenerating health just felt grossly out of place.

i dont care much about graphics, DNF had no replay value, the adult jokes were teenieshit, the whole stripclub level was so embarrassing and boring, the game sucks so hard., play the DNF mod for duke3d. it pisses all over dnf.

george broussard just had a big mouth and was just lucky he had so much success with duke3d.

[LittleBurger]

Ajora said:

I really hated DNF. The textures were grainy, the loading times were horrendous, the frame rate frequently dropped, the movement was clunky, and the modern conventions of weapon limits and regenerating health just felt grossly out of place.

I have a high tolerance to how textures can look resolution wise (generally fine as long as they are consistent) but some of them were off, agreed on the loading times and the movement. I have to wonder why they even added in the two weapon system, and the ego bar (regenerating health).

[Tritnew]

Ajora said:

I really hated DNF. The textures were grainy, the loading times were horrendous, the frame rate frequently dropped, the movement was clunky, and the modern conventions of weapon limits and regenerating health just felt grossly out of place.

The loading times and frame rate really only happen on the console versions, the PC version on the other hand Is greatly optimized. Fast loading times and no frame dips.

[Voros]

Doom also would have gone down in the same direction as DNF (dumbed down, I mean), IF the leak hadn't been... leaked.

If DNF had a small leak, things in the final product might have been better (like how Doom 2016 is now!).

I never played DNF, but from what I read, watched and saw: it was disappointing for the Duke fans, especially those who liked Duke3D(that I played). Oh well.

DOOM

[Orchid87]

MetroidJunkie said:

I'm not sure how true this is but Randy of Gearbox essentially passed the buck when I talked to him about DNF by saying it was 3DRealms' vision. Hopefully, that means whatever Duke Nukem game he makes next is closer to DOOM than Duke Nukem Forever. I'm no thin skinned SJW but, if you're going to crank up the obscene humor, there should be something behind that. Duke 3D backed it up with a solid shooter. In Forever's case, it looks like they were hoping their target audience would be immature enough to not notice the mediocrity.

Randy is full of shit. In his opinion, DNF is shit because of 3D Realms, Aliens game is shit because of whoever it was outsourced to. He took the licenses but took no responsibility when the games turned out shit. He is the guy who calls it quits and blames others, despite the final products were being released under his management. What kind of boss is that? When the next Gearbox game flops he will say something like "Hey, it's not me! It's those stupid programmers that were hired totally not by me".

[Tetzlaff]

Voros said:

Doom also would have gone down in the same direction as DNF (dumbed down, I mean), IF the leak hadn't been... leaked.

Doom 4 aka "Call of Doom" was cancelled because they were unsatisfied with its progress and overall design, not because some concept art and a small trailer got leaked. The concept art wasn't bad and the trailer didn't show any actual gameplay.

[VGamingJunkie]

The reason it happened is I basically called him out on Twitter for claiming to TerminX that he was trying to protect his brand. I told him I find that hard to believe considering DNF practically destroyed Duke's image. Oh, and the best part? Aside from passing the buck, he also said he LIKED DNF personally. I guess he didn't pay attention to the overwhelming majority scolding DNF for being mediocre.

[Caine]

Orchid87 said:

Randy is full of shit. In his opinion, DNF is shit because of 3D Realms, Aliens game is shit because of whoever it was outsourced to. He took the licenses but took no responsibility when the games turned out shit. He is the guy who calls it quits and blames others, despite the final products were being released under his management. What kind of boss is that? When the next Gearbox game flops he will say something like "Hey, it's not me! It's those stupid programmers that were hired totally not by me".

Randy of Gearbox talked only bullshit, he bullshitted all over the shit before and while the release, gearbox even censored and deleted topics/posts on their forums too.

[Janus3003]

Tetzlaff said:

Doom 4 aka "Call of Doom" was cancelled because they were unsatisfied with its progress and overall design, not because some concept art and a small trailer got leaked. The concept art wasn't bad and the trailer didn't show any actual gameplay.

Didn't the trailer only leak long after they had revamped the project?

[Tetzlaff]

@ Janus, yeah, I think you are right. Like I said, cancellation was not because the leaked media got bad feedback from the audience.