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MrGlide

How is Doom Dumb?

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I remember psychology classes in college, one of my profs told us that the way to differentiate between higher and lower (base) pleasures is: if at some point you'll have had enough of something, it's a lower pleasure. Like eating (no matter how delicious it may be), you'll eventually not only get full, but also not even want to look at what was just so delicious a second ago, no matter how much variety you might have of it. Whereas with something like music, you could listen to it all day urvraday and never grow tired of it.

Proof that Dum and greenery are higher pleasures

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Some pwads make me feel dumb with their design philosophy but Doom (= the iwads content) is actually quite clever.

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Incidentally, the talk about reflexes makes me think of the Kyle Berger PDA message in Doom 3 where he mentions a particle beam victim's "REFLEXACTIONS". I think that'd be a good little catchphrase to use to parody all the foolish outsiders who try to belittle Dooming and Doomers. In fact, I'll go ahead and start with it right now.

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I yelled "Dumbass says what?" in Doom's direction, and Doom looked around and said "what?"

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Doom is dumb in the same way that many 1980s action flicks are dumb. They're not really trying to make a statement, teach a lesson, or provide a serious subject matter for the more intellectual of us to debate over (or, for a game-specific analog, be so complicated and obtuse that only people willing to put serious time into learning how the game works can even get into it). They're just trying to give an audience a good time with a very black-and-white good vs. evil story.

And that's fine! Everyone loves them a little well-made dumb fun from time to time. Even the critics throwing the term around enjoy it (well, the vast majority of them, anyway), they're just signalling to their readers that that's what's on hand here. Not really an insult.

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Being dumb is a bad thing for a person. It's okay for a game, though.

Sure, it's not some strategy game where you have to plan your moves from start to finish like a chessmaster. Indeed you don't have to solve puzzles, conclude negotiations, or do any sort of interaction beside movement, collection, and destruction. Yes, it doesn't give you pretentious quotes when you finish a level so that you can then say "no, see, the princess is actually a metaphor for the atomic bomb" and make everyone very impressed at how clever you are.

What matters is whether the game is fun, it can be smart fun or it can be dumb fun, as long as it's fun.

Re: reflexaction: looks like just a typo for "reflex action", which is a perfectly fine technical term.

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^Yeah, but I'm referencing how fast Kyle Berger says it in his PDA in Doom 3, and at any rate it fits my parody of certain outside Doom critics.

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Shadow Hog said:

Doom is dumb in the same way that many 1980s action flicks are dumb. They're not really trying to make a statement, teach a lesson, or provide a serious subject matter for the more intellectual of us to debate over (or, for a game-specific analog, be so complicated and obtuse that only people willing to put serious time into learning how the game works can even get into it). They're just trying to give an audience a good time with a very black-and-white good vs. evil story.

And that's fine! Everyone loves them a little well-made dumb fun from time to time. Even the critics throwing the term around enjoy it (well, the vast majority of them, anyway), they're just signalling to their readers that that's what's on hand here. Not really an insult.

Ya I never said it was an insult, I was just trying to understand why they were using those words to relate to it. I should have conveyed that better in the original post. My Fault. As for the story, ya I wasn't thinking about that aspec so much, doom has kinda turned more into an arcade game for me rather then a simulated experience I supose, so I personally Dissassociate the story for it I guess. I also hadn/t slept in 40 hours when In made this thread XD. oh shit happens.

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Linguica said:

Uh, Doom is very dumb. An unstoppable space marine killing demons, I mean come on, this is not high art.


That depends on what you choose to focus on. Me, personally, I think Doom is dumb accessible but it has some depth to it if you're willing to look for it. There are strategies you can employ such as utilizing corners for cover, provoking demons into killing each other, telefragging, taking advantage of explosive barrels, stunning certain enemies such as Cacodemons and Arachnatrons with the chaingun so they're essentially paralyzed, provoking the Archvile to do its attack against you (Covering at the last second) so it doesn't roam around and revive, things like that. It may be possible to go through completely guns blazing with your brain essentially shut off but there are rewards for more witty players, especially in terms of secrets.

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DOOM's weapon system is more complex than COD's.
Nearly a dozen weapons that all are required to be used for the right situation vs.
Modern fps's weapon system is more or less Ak does more damage than AR-15.

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Solid Plissken said:

DOOM's weapon system is more complex than COD's.
Nearly a dozen weapons that all are required to be used for the right situation vs.
Modern fps's weapon system is more or less Ak does more damage than AR-15.

That is something that I have missed. Sort of wonder if modern fps's will break away from the CoD style of having 50 shades of the same type of weapon that are supposed to be a different weapon.

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Tritnew said:

^ People wouldn't notice It was a troll.

Honestly I don't know what it is on youtube. But the comments man, it's like a bunch of defensive narcissistic people all grouped up calling each other ugly. *shudders*

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Of course, the YouTube comments are honestly more *Idiotic then DOOM In general.

EDIT: I'm not mad about It like an cunt but uh... Bugger, the Grammar Nazis are at It again Charlie.

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Doom is absolutely dumb. It's big dumb fun. That's the whole point.

The premise is Evil Dead meets Aliens. The plot doesn't matter. None of it fucking matters, and that's good, because the concept is ludicrous. I mean, if you're really really good, you could THEORETICALLY make something high-art out of it, but I doubt it. Alien, 1979, was lightning in a bottle.

And it's simple. Of course it's simple. This is what drove id back in the 90s -- they made games. And to them, games were fast action and hitting things until they died. So yeah, Doom is basically get from point A to point B, collect key C to open door D, and kill enemies E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P, and all their friends along the way.

And that's FINE. Everyone getting upset over Doom being called "dumb" and "simple" is missing something important -- that there is a place for dumb and simple. Doom has a purity to it that you don't find in many other games. You want something more complex? Go play Marathon or System Shock.

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I like when Doom levels are better than 'dumb', when they include puzzles you must figure out to continue. Or even tactical puzzles, which involve disproportionate monsters you must somehow level down. Really, from the Doom manual, the aim has been in balance:

The gameplay for ULTIMATE DOOM is quite simple. This is not a cumbersome adventure game,
but an action-oriented slugathon. You don’t need the reflexes of a hyperactive eight-year-old to
win, either—using your wits is IMPORTANT. To escape ULTIMATE DOOM, you need both
brains and the killer instinct.

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dethtoll said:

Everyone getting upset over Doom being called "dumb" and "simple" is missing something important -- that there is a place for dumb and simple.

"Dumb" is kind of a derogatory term, don't you think?

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Sure, unless you're talking about "dumb fun." Which is exactly what Doom is. It's not high art and it isn't trying to be. Here's a shotgun, go kill stuff. Everything else -- the atmosphere, the level design, even the scrap of a plot -- is secondary. All that matters is that it's fun -- which is true to id's roots in vintage 70s/early 80s home and arcade gaming.

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I don't think Doom would be as fun without the atmosphere, the level design, and even the plot. Plenty of games where you have a shotgun and are supposed to kill stuff aren't fun at all.

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How can something that revolutionized modern gaming be considered dumb? ..
Although it may be hard to appreciate everything ID created at the time, its far from any sort of intelligent design and thought..
Now the story may be simple enough.. except the focus is all about gameplay.. fast brutal gameplay that challenges your reflexes quite a bit at times.
Back in 93 nothing like this even came close, outside of other ID titles.
Therefor everything else seemed dumb to Doom. Doom wins.

"I get some of the points here, just seeing it from a positive perspective considering its been over 23 years since it came out"

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Tritnew said:

more dumber

Watch it, Grammar police attacks again .

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