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HellVain

Someone made an E1M1 remake in Snapmap

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I think it's a bit absurd that a modern editor is just barely capable of sort of recreating an extremely simple geometric configuration from a 22-year-old game, even though both games were developed by the same company.

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If you could move the floors, walls, and ceilings around in the rooms, creativity would spike and I don't think that would particularly hard to pull off either.

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I don't know why they went with such a rigid approach of fully baked room layouts instead of making it more modular. Maybe there's a bunch of monster behavior/pathing stuff baked into the pieces?

Skyrim's editor is founded on the same principle of prefabs, but it's a lot more modular. First you have the basic room pieces split into walls (with a floor and ceiling baked in), corners, hallways etc. which you mix and match into any kind of room layout you want. Then there's plenty of separate platforms, facades, pillars, stairs etc. which you can add in separately which makes the whole thing a lot more flexible. I managed to make a much, much closer recreation of E1M1 just using Skyrim assets. And that kind of setup is what I was initially expecting for Snapmap.



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Holy cow, remaking old doom maps in skyrims as dumgeons sound s awesome! Your beutifully created dungeon supports that as well, Holy shit. I hope someone rips the demon models from doom amd make resources for skyrim.

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You know, it IS part of the Doom 2016 lore that there was an ancient Doom Slayer that fought with a sword. Imagine a mod that had just that and had non-cybernetic versions of things like the Cyberdemon that the "original" Doom Slayer had to fight. There wouldn't even be any conflict since Bethesda owns both games and they seem pretty lenient when it comes to fan reimaginings.

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Snapmap's console and overall limitations will spell doom for the longevity of the game in the long run unless id does something soon.

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People just don´t get it... They don't want to sell you a game with unlimited fun, they want to sell you a game and then the next year sell another version.
For those that are in their late 20's or early 30's, wake up the 90s are gone, they won't be coming back never.
For those that are younger, well it's a shame you were not able to enjoy the 90s but they won't be coming back.... In the bright side people doesn't have to deal with a shitload of shitty games and i mean SHITTY GAMES.

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Wild Dog said:

People just don´t get it... They don't want to sell you a game with unlimited fun, they want to sell you a game and then the next year sell another version.
For those that are in their late 20's or early 30's, wake up the 90s are gone, they won't be coming back never.
For those that are younger, well it's a shame you were not able to enjoy the 90s but they won't be coming back.... In the bright side people doesn't have to deal with a shitload of shitty games and i mean SHITTY GAMES.


Bethesda wouldn't have added modding to their games if they did that.

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GeckoYamori said:

I don't know why they went with.....

Does Skyrim's editor have limiting bars? And is it on consoles as well?

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SnapMap sounded good... but I think they should have not consolized it and just made it more like Mario Maker in the sense that you can make levels without restraint.

You know outdoor areas would be nice id Software!!!!

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id.dav said:

Does Skyrim's editor have limiting bars? And is it on consoles as well?

I'm almost 100% certain that Skyrim's editor is similar in design to Oblivion and Morrowind's, which means it's basically an full game editor that can create new maps, sculpt overworld areas, alter monster, NPC, and item data, and just flat-out script new stuff.

The reason for the prefabs is that that's how Bethesda creates dungeons - they make a bunch of generic prefab dungeon pieces and put them together with some unique ones for each dungeon, then fill them with clutter and stuff. To my knowledge, there's not a single dungeon in a TES game that's made of entirely unique parts - but the parts are generic enough to make that not matter.

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id.dav said:

Does Skyrim's editor have limiting bars? And is it on consoles as well?


Not entirely sure what you mean by limiting bars, but if you mean a hard limit on the amount of stuff you can place in a single cell, then no. There is a memory meter with a 256mb cap on the header for the rendering window, but you can go past that value and nothing will happen. I think they just had it there to be mindful of consoles while developing, but it's nothing you have to abide by.

There is a soft cap on stuff like the amount of dynamic light sources you can have active at once. You can place as many as you want, but at a certain threshold you'll get problems like flickering lights.

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And that's the answer - TES editor is a legit PC soft as it should be!

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DMGUYDZ64 said:

You are allergic to consoles ?

No! But I'm allergic to limitations that is applied to PC for some retarted reason!

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id.dav said:

No! But I'm allergic to limitations that is applied to PC for some retarted reason!


Honestly, I think there's plenty you can do while keeping console compatibility such as being able to drag walls, ceilings, and floors around to manipulate their height, maybe even draw in and divide rooms so it's like the Classic Doom's splitting sectors. Obviously, there would be a limit for the sake of consoles but at least it would increase the room for creativity by quite a bit. Also, hell and outdoor prefabs would do a lot to increase variety.

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Id.av is right. I'm glad that they succeeded in the singleplayer aspect of the game but the other stuff kinda feels lackluster. Snapmap has way too many limitations to be a proper map maker and multiplayer is just horrible akin to...i hate to say it... Modern war shooters.

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HellVain said:

Id.av is right. I'm glad that they succeeded in the singleplayer aspect of the game but the other stuff kinda feels lackluster. Snapmap has way too many limitations to be a proper map maker and multiplayer is just horrible akin to...i hate to say it... Modern war shooters.


Imagine what Id could have done if they had allocated all their resources to the single-player component, like MachineGames did with The New Order.

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So far, every snapmap i have seen gives me the impression to walk through a company building that already is left. And all the good stuff was already taken away, stolen or sold etc. A bit steam and lightning is just not enough to fill some empty containers and boxes with life. The maps all looking soulless. Either they add a lot more options or i cant imagine that we see that much maps from snapmap in the future.

I am playing Doom on a console because i could not afford a proper pc for it. But if these limitations are only because of the consoles then i prefer to not have a map maker at all instead of snapmap. At least in its actual state i think its dull.

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Arctangent said:

I'm almost 100% certain that Skyrim's editor is similar in design to Oblivion and Morrowind's, which means it's basically an full game editor that can create new maps, sculpt overworld areas, alter monster, NPC, and item data, and just flat-out script new stuff.

The reason for the prefabs is that that's how Bethesda creates dungeons - they make a bunch of generic prefab dungeon pieces and put them together with some unique ones for each dungeon, then fill them with clutter and stuff. To my knowledge, there's not a single dungeon in a TES game that's made of entirely unique parts - but the parts are generic enough to make that not matter.



Indeed, Tes III & IV Construction Set, Tes V Creation Kit, and Fallout 3/4 G.E.C.K are very similar editors, in which you have pretty much the same capabilities the developers had to make stuff for the game. You can even make your own tilesets if you are handy with 3D applications and know the mantra of modular assets Bethesda follows.

I guess that having such thing for Doom is impossible now, they are focused on a more basic user content experience. Maybe they are learning and will change this perspective in a future installment of the franchise.

GeckoYamori said:

I don't know why they went with such a rigid approach of fully baked room layouts instead of making it more modular. Maybe there's a bunch of monster behavior/pathing stuff baked into the pieces?

Skyrim's editor is founded on the same principle of prefabs, but it's a lot more modular. First you have the basic room pieces split into walls (with a floor and ceiling baked in), corners, hallways etc. which you mix and match into any kind of room layout you want. Then there's plenty of separate platforms, facades, pillars, stairs etc. which you can add in separately which makes the whole thing a lot more flexible. I managed to make a much, much closer recreation of E1M1 just using Skyrim assets. And that kind of setup is what I was initially expecting for Snapmap.

http://abload.de/img/enb2016_04_0819_51_44d0k9h.png
http://abload.de/img/enb2016_04_0819_53_47eikyy.png
http://abload.de/img/enb2016_04_0819_52_07kdk57.png



Hey, that's very interesting, and very cool also. I hope you consider making the hole dungeon.

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I really don't understand people who say the reason there can't be more customization is specifically because of console users. If console users can move prefab rooms into position and totally manipulate the position of items, I don't think having a slider for the heights, widths, and lengths of rooms is beyond their capabilities. The only thing consoles would prevent is adding your own custom coding beyond the scripting already there, it shouldn't prevent room customization in the slightest unless id just honestly doesn't know how to do it.

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GoatLord said:

I think it's a bit absurd that a modern editor is just barely capable of sort of recreating an extremely simple geometric configuration from a 22-year-old game, even though both games were developed by the same company.


SnapMap is essentially a bunch of prefabs, that you can only lump together in so many ways. The very same thing would happen if classic Doom maps were made only with prefabs and copy-pasting (or with a level generator). The prefabs themselves may be very elaborate, but the price to pay is that you're not allowed (or it's not made easy) to make something truly unique.

Doom 3's editor was flexible enough to render classic Doom levels (or pretty much anything), but the price to pay in that case was a steep learning curve, aka it was not for everybody.

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