SnapMap Wishlist?

[HALFRATS PS4]

xTWx PREDATOR X said:

And to be honest i think an update to snap map where the player can choose a quick retry and not have to load the map again is needed.

Agreed, I'm under the impression they are adding bots with the next patch.

[HALFRATS PS4]

xTWx PREDATOR X said:

Fair point. But nice to be rerawded with snap points for failed attempt surely? Yes having to load is a bummer. But it's a trade off.

And to be fair we are all learning to code as we go. I think a more friendly approach (hav3 you considered or what if you try this) will go further and support the creative minds. Rather than insulting a maker for an idea they perhaps hadn't thought of or learned yet.

I hear you man, but should you publish something thats not quite there yet? I dont especially if the flow of the level isnt even complete. A bug or glitch after all the code is placed is alot different then Ill publish this and put fundamental rules in later approach.

[VentedPennies]

I publish maps all the time that may have a code or glitch at various milestones. I'm on the Xbone, so publishing maps is the only way to backup the maps.

I indicate in the description that it's only a backup and non-playable, though.

[HALFRATS PS4]

VentedPennies said:

I publish maps all the time that may have a code or glitch at various milestones. I'm on the Xbone, so publishing maps is the only way to backup the maps.

I indicate in the description that it's only a backup and non-playable, though.

Just save it under a different name or put another version number in the end of it. I do this through out the making of a map at periods of time so incase of an unfit able glitch I can revert back to an older version. I don't publish until player one can make from begging to end with fundamental game play rules in place.

[Xaser]

Hell in SnapMap confirmed to be a thing just now in the E3 conference.

[EDIT] better lingpost here, direct comments there. :P

[VentedPennies]

HALFRATS PS4 said:

Just save it under a different name or put another version number in the end of it. I do this through out the making of a map at periods of time so incase of an unfit able glitch I can revert back to an older version. I don't publish until player one can make from begging to end with fundamental game play rules in place.

That doesn't save the map from corruption on the physical disk.

[HALFRATS PS4]

VentedPennies said:

That doesn't save the map from corruption on the physical disk.

Lol what? How is it any different. If you in file is corrupt it's corrupt when you publish it too. What I do is build all the rooms save then I save it as a new file. Then I add my pickups keys, cores etc to the new file save it then save it again as another file. Then add my demons and wave save it etc, etc. so if I run into a problem I revert back to one of the earlier iterations of my map. This is a hell of a lot better than filling the servers up with half assed levels that aren't competed.

[Kontra Kommando]

Is it possible to travel back to a previous custom-map a la Hexen Hub?

If not, I would like that :)

As I playthrough the main single-player maps, I am formulating ideas for my own maps.

[VentedPennies]

HALFRATS PS4 said:

Lol what? How is it any different. If you in file is corrupt it's corrupt when you publish it too. What I do is build all the rooms save then I save it as a new file. Then I add my pickups keys, cores etc to the new file save it then save it again as another file. Then add my demons and wave save it etc, etc. so if I run into a problem I revert back to one of the earlier iterations of my map. This is a hell of a lot better than filling the servers up with half assed levels that aren't competed.

When you publish a map, it's saved to Bethesda's cloud network. If my map on the disk gets corrupted or my Xbone breaks, I can always insert the map code and re-download it no matter what.

Until they offer some other alternative to saving files other than a shitty Hard drive, I'm not chancing hundreds of hours of work that my windows based console won't ruin the data.

It's really not too big of a deal to publish it with nothing selected (so no one can play it) and put in the description it's an unplayable backup. Once you're done, you can save it as a new file and publish it under a new code as the finished version.

I can also pull the maps from SnapMap onto a computer one day and backup the files that way too. I don't think it's too unreasonable to backup those many hours of work.

[Chezza]

I also wish they improved the Undo stability. My map is quite full and now everytime I Ctrl + Z my entire computer crashes. Also, long before it reached that point you hear so much noise from all the items you placed which gets really annoying.

[HALFRATS PS4]

Chezza said:

I also wish they improved the Undo stability. My map is quite full and now everytime I Ctrl + Z my entire computer crashes. Also, long before it reached that point you hear so much noise from all the items you placed which gets really annoying.

I've ran into the same problem. I've noticed when you do undo in blueprint mode it doesn't happen as often or at all.

[Chezza]

I have yet another request, this time regarding Cameras.

1. Be able to test the camera view in editing mode
2. Allow Camera panning

[TECH_PH33R]

Jaxxoon R said:

I'm not sure if Doom is the right subject to be DONUT STEELing over code in, considering its legacy.

Note, I only said code because the person I was talking to used the term and my post was directed at him. The closest thing this gets to coding is UDK's kismet if even. I am not a noob when it comes to modding/mapamaking/leveldesign. My only point, was that I would not support a feature that allowed other people to directly steal creatively designed circuits on a whim, because let's face it this system is simple and everyone who actually knows how to fully use it knows that. The only reason to really create this feature other than to move circuits across your own maps, is to take something you think is cool from another map and "copy" it. While the system itself is simple, the time and effort to make something simple, do something complicated can be pretty intensive and by the end it's something unique to what you made yourself. Regardless of legacy and laws, that's taking a piece of my creativity.

I spend a lot of time on my maps, so I voiced my opinion. I would like the idea if it's optional, that was my point on behalf of all people who aren't the sharing type, and would like to keep their stuff to themselves.

When it comes to laws and actually adding features Bethesda and ID can do whatever they want it's their game, but before it becomes a tangible thing I figured I'd say something in this forum where everyone is equal, and laws to do with legacy shouldn't have anything to do with a discussion over a snapmap feature wishlist in a forum.

The only reason I see for you making that kind of comment is to come in here and put me down for voicing an opinion you obviously don't like. Take your ridiculous slang/meme reference, step off my plate, and quit trying to get first blood. Last I remember I didn't call anyone out, I was just talking about a feature that was thrown into the mix, if anything doesn't fit the subject it was your comment.

HALFRATS PS4 said:

Snapmaps shines from imagination

I couldn't say it better myself, exactly the reason why I am voicing my stance on this. Creativity is what makes it special, which is why that creativity shouldn't be marred by overcopying an idea and producing cheap knockoffs, it only hurts the original author, who was trying to get their own creation in the spotlight not produce an idea everyone can copy.

[Jaxxoon R]

TECH_PH33R said:

The only reason I see for you making that kind of comment is to come in here and put me down for voicing an opinion you obviously don't like. Take your ridiculous slang/meme reference, step off my plate, and quit trying to get first blood. Last I remember I didn't call anyone out, I was just talking about a feature that was thrown into the mix, if anything doesn't fit the subject it was your comment.

If I'm not mistaken, it seems that you've taken me simply disagreeing with you as a personal attack of some kind. Your usage of "code" I could care less about. Oh yes, it's visualized logic systems. But it's not the words, it's the principles.

What does it matter to you that everyone can "produce cheap knockoffs?" You lose nothing through this, nothing of value. Definitely not through a lack of attribution, as the process of downloading and modifying maps are set up almost like github forks in that the lineage is preserved. These are systems created by id to foster a stream of usermade content, and obfuscating or even locking people out of the inner workings of these things denies them of the possibility to learn from or, heaven forbid, improve on the creations of others. Doom modding as it is today owes itself to the ideals of open source. It is through DOSDoom, Boom, ZDoom, and the continued efforts of people willing to cooperate and work together that modding has been even allowed the continued vigor it has throughout the past 20 years. With Snapmap almost a mere tribute, for the expectation that Doom is and must always be malleable in the hands of the user is itself a hard legacy to follow.

[Chezza]

FFS I activated Dev Mode when play-testing my latest Map. Now I can't publish my map because of it. I was working really hard and was very excited to release it today. God damn it, what a kick in the teeth. Now I got a really awesome map sitting idly by. I'm frustrated.

[HALFRATS PS4]

This is why I make multiple saves throughout the creation process. After having to remake 2 levels I started saving my maps at different phases under different names so I can revert back to them if need be.

[TECH_PH33R]

Jaxxoon R said:

If I'm not mistaken, it seems that you've taken me simply disagreeing with you as a personal attack of some kind. Your usage of "code" I could care less about. Oh yes, it's visualized logic systems. But it's not the words, it's the principles.

What does it matter to you that everyone can "produce cheap knockoffs?" You lose nothing through this, nothing of value. Definitely not through a lack of attribution, as the process of downloading and modifying maps are set up almost like github forks in that the lineage is preserved. These are systems created by id to foster a stream of usermade content, and obfuscating or even locking people out of the inner workings of these things denies them of the possibility to learn from or, heaven forbid, improve on the creations of others. Doom modding as it is today owes itself to the ideals of open source. It is through DOSDoom, Boom, ZDoom, and the continued efforts of people willing to cooperate and work together that modding has been even allowed the continued vigor it has throughout the past 20 years. With Snapmap almost a mere tribute, for the expectation that Doom is and must always be malleable in the hands of the user is itself a hard legacy to follow.

Yeah I took it as an attack, because a short post that does nothing but call me out is an attack last time I checked. You didn't contribute to the conversation other than to tell me that DOOM wasn't a subject for me to be talking about not stealing stuff, which is basically telling me my opinion is invalid to my face in a forum in front of everyone else, and that's literally ALL THAT POST DID. You didn't even voice an idea or take on the subject, you literally just called me and what I said out on the basis of law, which doesn't even play into said topic. Text is ambiguous and doesn't carry mood, so I'm sorry if you didn't mean it as an attack, but I don't play those games.

Beyond that learn how to read and fully understand what people are saying, loss of a unique idea is losing something that I value, and the value of anything is determined by the person themselves. Obviously you don't care about your own ideas or value them that much, just like I don't care if people who don't want to spend the time to learn can easily take whatever they want and use it, because that's not the way the world works in the first place. This system should cater to the ones with the ideas, not the people who want to steal them. I see your point, collaboration would happen, but thieving ideas is a big thing. I don't want people taking MY map ideas and "improving them" without my permission because those are MY ideas and ingenuity not yours or anyone else's, and I sure as hell don't want someone creating variants behind my back. If an idea is popular and you like it you should support the creator, help them improve their own ideas instead of trying to get a system enacted that would allow you to steal the spotlight from them instead.

And like I said before, the option is fine to me if I can turn it off. I don't want to cut off collaborators or people who want to teach. I just wanted to point out idea thieving is a huge thing, regardless of platform or legacy. If someone wants to steal ideas, I want them to have to make it from scratch with their own touches, because by then it's something of their own, not something built from anyone else's hard work.

[TECH_PH33R]

Chezza said:

I have yet another request, this time regarding Cameras.

1. Be able to test the camera view in editing mode
2. Allow Camera panning

I like the ideas, and I touched on it before, but they need to fix the weird logic pausing when cameras are activated.

I found out the other day through a complete accident, that while cameras are active everything else pauses, don't know why. I had a map with a 30 second timer before it starts the wave timer for my survival encounters, and I increased it to 45 so it would count 30 seconds after my 15 second camera intro reel finishes. Instead it went through all 5 of my 3 second cameras, then paused for 45 seconds before spawning waves. Further experimentation with buffs, music changes, and logic placements showed that pretty much everything except specifically placed demons won't activate while a camera is rolling. The only things that seem to ignore this are timers or switches directly connected to said cameras, but I can't seem to find a solid rule, because sometimes things bug out.

Definitely a glitch or maybe just an intended pause with unintended consequences, but it's annoying if you want to do something while cameras are rolling. They should just pause damages and AI actions, and allow circuits to continue operating normally, for the sake of consistency.

[HALFRATS PS4]

TECH_PH33R said:

Yeah I took it as an attack, because a short post that does nothing but call me out is an attack last time I checked. You didn't contribute to the conversation other than to tell me that DOOM wasn't a subject for me to be talking about not stealing stuff, which is basically telling me my opinion is invalid to my face in a forum in front of everyone else, and that's literally ALL THAT POST DID. You didn't even voice an idea or take on the subject, you literally just called me and what I said out on the basis of law, which doesn't even play into said topic. Text is ambiguous and doesn't carry mood, so I'm sorry if you didn't mean it as an attack, but I don't play those games.

Beyond that learn how to read and fully understand what people are saying, loss of a unique idea is losing something that I value, and the value of anything is determined by the person themselves. Obviously you don't care about your own ideas or value them that much, just like I don't care if people who don't want to spend the time to learn can easily take whatever they want and use it, because that's not the way the world works in the first place. This system should cater to the ones with the ideas, not the people who want to steal them. I see your point, collaboration would happen, but thieving ideas is a big thing. I don't want people taking MY map ideas and "improving them" without my permission because those are MY ideas and ingenuity not yours or anyone else's, and I sure as hell don't want someone creating variants behind my back. If an idea is popular and you like it you should support the creator, help them improve their own ideas instead of trying to get a system enacted that would allow you to steal the spotlight from them instead.

And like I said before, the option is fine to me if I can turn it off. I don't want to cut off collaborators or people who want to teach. I just wanted to point out idea thieving is a huge thing, regardless of platform or legacy. If someone wants to steal ideas, I want them to have to make it from scratch with their own touches, because by then it's something of their own, not something built from anyone else's hard work.

Lol so what, are you never gonna publish a level because you're afraid someone will copy your predetermined code strings. Hate to break it to you but in a month from now most will know how this editor works forward and back and we will all be coding things the same exact way.

[Chezza]

TECH_PH33R said:

I found out the other day through a complete accident, that while cameras are active everything else pauses, don't know why.

Interesting. Fortunately for me all the active triggers were connected to the camera some way or another. I had player blockers and various visuals effects + timers + audio linked, none of them were background scripts.

I'm curious then, if the cameras do halt background actions then do triggers like A.I. Proxi fail? Atm I can't seem to get all randomly spawned wave monsters to die / delete after a particular monster is killed. I'm curious if the camera bug is the cause or it action is impossible.

[TECH_PH33R]

HALFRATS PS4 said:

Lol so what, are you never gonna publish a level because you're afraid someone will copy your predetermined code strings. Hate to break it to you but in a month from now most will know how this editor works forward and back and we will all be coding things the same exact way.

You are an idiot. You don't seem to understand that yeah at the basic level most things will be coded the same way. That's not even part of my damn point, which is why both of you are dumbasses.

My point is there might be a set of circuits that exist in a map, that are unique because of their ultimate function. You are talking about the normal inside the box bullshit. But because of the sandbox nature there is no "predetermined" amount circuits, it's whatever you can come up with, there are millions of variations. For an example. I have a machine in one of my maps that is basically a bigass pack-a-punch that detects what weapons you are holding and adds a mod to them in a predetermined order, and since there are only two mods max if you hit it again it will switch them, if it's a gun with one mod it will buzz and do nothing. Originally I thought such a circuit impossible because you can only flag droppables, and "on-weapon remove" outputs don't exist in the inventory options as of this moment, but after three sleepless nights I figured it out. My point is, that circuit might not be a "thing" for a long time because it is ultimately very intricate and included a lot of work arounds because of logic limitations in the current version of snapmap.

I am not against someone "inventing" the same circuit from scratch, kudos to whoever has done it and will do it, my problem with this scenario is that someone could easily come by and just yoink it, no effort. That's my issue. There are enough tutorials on the basics that idiots like you should figure it the fuck out, and if you can't, tough. There shouldn't be a feature where you can just pull whatever you want.

Once you do that everything will be boiled down to the same shit over and over, because NOTHING will be unique anymore, and I don't like that picture so I'll happily stand my ground.

[TECH_PH33R]

Chezza said:

Interesting. Fortunately for me all the active triggers were connected to the camera some way or another. I had player blockers and various visuals effects + timers + audio linked, none of them were background scripts.

I'm curious then, if the cameras do halt background actions then do triggers like A.I. Proxi fail? Atm I can't seem to get all randomly spawned wave monsters to die / delete after a particular monster is killed. I'm curious if the camera bug is the cause or it action is impossible.

Is the particular monster a wave monster? or is it uniquely placed/a boss?

EDIT: also it might not have been clear, but this bug or whatever it is, doesn't effect any inactive circuits that are in the background long term, it shouldn't effect anything that I know of in terms of activation after the camera turns off.

The pause is only when the cameras are active, what I meant about connected timers, was that they were working correctly, otherwise the cameras would have been on forever (paused disable timers). I couldn't get a clear rule with the rest of the logic. Common sense would be they would continue as normal in the background, but after the timer fiasco with my waves I know they don't. All of the timers I am talking about were all activated by the same node, so they were all essentially part of the same circuit. The timers on the cameras worked, the timers on the wave that were supposedly activated at the same time, didn't activate until after the camera was disabled.

[Chezza]

TECH_PH33R said:

Is the particular monster a wave monster? or is it uniquely placed/a boss?

A Boss fight, but it's not vs a monster. But I do have a hidden monster (a Lost Soul) placed in the map somewhere safe. Once you reach a damage threshold on a shootable trigger (the Boss) a small portion of health is taken away from this monster. The reason why I did this is to display a health bar, as there is none for a trigger. Think Icon of Sin.

The idea is once the hidden Lost Soul dies hence the Boss - a Camera is activated and you view a ending cinematic. Problem is, your character is getting attacked by the remaining monsters that appeared from the wave event. I want them to either die or vanish when the Boss dies. My attempts with the A.I. proxy is not working. I could be doing something wrong, maybe it's the camera bug or it's impossible to implement.

[TECH_PH33R]

Chezza said:

A Boss fight, but it's not vs a monster. But I do have a hidden monster (a Lost Soul) placed in the map somewhere safe. Once you reach a damage threshold on a shootable trigger (the Boss) a small portion of health is taken away from this monster. The reason why I did this is to display a health bar, as there is none for a trigger.

The idea is once the hidden Lost Soul dies hence the Boss - a Camera is activated and you view a ending cinematic. Problem is, your character is getting attacked by the remaining monsters that appeared from the wave event. I want them to either die or vanish when the Boss dies. My attempts with the A.I. proxy is not working. I could be doing something wrong, maybe it's the camera bug or it's impossible to implement.

If you activated the kill AI and the camera at the same time, I would attribute it to the bug.

I had the same issue with giving loadouts, have the boss trigger the kill AI input on the proxy when it dies, then do a separate output that is delayed (I usually do .5 to be safe) to activate the camera.

[Jaxxoon R]

TECH_PH33R said:

You are an idiot.

both of you are dumbasses.

There are enough tutorials on the basics that idiots like you should figure it the fuck out, and if you can't, tough.

Once you do that everything will be boiled down to the same shit over and over, because NOTHING will be unique anymore, and I don't like that picture so I'll happily stand my ground.

Ah, so that explains it. Turns out not only do you think that inconveniencing people IDIOT THIEF BADGUYS in a game and taking something created for fun over-seriously somehow validates your efforts more, but you're also simply an asshole.

[TECH_PH33R]

Jaxxoon R said:

Ah, so that explains it. Turns out not only do you think that inconveniencing people IDIOT THIEF BADGUYS in a game and taking something created for fun over-seriously somehow validates your efforts more, but you're also simply an asshole.

I'm only inconveniencing people looking for handouts, apparently that's what you both want if you don't see the point of my argument. Never called anyone a thief directly, not even the poster I originally made my comment to. I never said anything bad about the idea other than it can be used to thieve ideas, and I supplied an effective potential compromise so the feature couldn't be used to steal, and if that made you so upset then you must be one of the people I'm talking about who just likes to pick the good ideas out without doing any work of their own.

I only started using words like dumbass after I had been mocked by both of you for wanting my current rights protected from a potential feature that would take those rights away, in a discussion about potential features.

[Jaxxoon R]

TECH_PH33R said:

Never called anyone a thief directly, not even the poster I originally made my comment to.
...
I only started using words like dumbass after I had been mocked by both of you

No, it isn't until someone disagrees with you that you then show your true colors. When the fuck did I ever mock you?

for wanting my current rights protected from a potential feature that would take those rights away

How much you wanna bet there's a section in one of the game's many EULAs that states any published Snapmaps are property of id?

I'm talking about who just likes to pick the good ideas out without doing any work of their own.

How about this: The Execution

[HALFRATS PS4]

TECH_PH33R said:

You are an idiot. You don't seem to understand that yeah at the basic level most things will be coded the same way. That's not even part of my damn point, which is why both of you are dumbasses.

My point is there might be a set of circuits that exist in a map, that are unique because of their ultimate function. You are talking about the normal inside the box bullshit. But because of the sandbox nature there is no "predetermined" amount circuits, it's whatever you can come up with, there are millions of variations. For an example. I have a machine in one of my maps that is basically a bigass pack-a-punch that detects what weapons you are holding and adds a mod to them in a predetermined order, and since there are only two mods max if you hit it again it will switch them, if it's a gun with one mod it will buzz and do nothing. Originally I thought such a circuit impossible because you can only flag droppables, and "on-weapon remove" outputs don't exist in the inventory options as of this moment, but after three sleepless nights I figured it out. My point is, that circuit might not be a "thing" for a long time because it is ultimately very intricate and included a lot of work arounds because of logic limitations in the current version of snapmap.

I am not against someone "inventing" the same circuit from scratch, kudos to whoever has done it and will do it, my problem with this scenario is that someone could easily come by and just yoink it, no effort. That's my issue. There are enough tutorials on the basics that idiots like you should figure it the fuck out, and if you can't, tough. There shouldn't be a feature where you can just pull whatever you want.

Once you do that everything will be boiled down to the same shit over and over, because NOTHING will be unique anymore, and I don't like that picture so I'll happily stand my ground.

For calling me an dumbass I'll now post all of your code on this thread.

[TECH_PH33R]

Jaxxoon R said:

No, it isn't until someone disagrees with you that you then show your true colors. When the fuck did I ever mock you?
How much you wanna bet there's a section in one of the game's many EULAs that states any published Snapmaps are property of id?
How about this: The Execution

First off, my first comment was innocent, I never mocked anyone, only said that the idea was worded like it was to steal, which is something you and him seem very interested in making happen for your own personal benefit.

Second, this has nothing to do with what ID can or can't do, already said that. ID can do whatever and I will still play the game. I never disputed the EULA or any of the laws, because I know how that shit works and you are right they can put this feature in and there is nothing I can do about it except voice my opinion exactly like I did here in a thread about the topic. It has everything to do with the fact that right now I have rights to my shit because no one can copy it. You act like because ID has the right to the game, you have rights to my ideas through the game. But people like you who want to just pull shit with no limitations are exactly why I felt like I had to say something, just because ID has an EULA and rights to my ideas within their game, doesn't mean you should have rights to take what you want because ID can make a feature so you can.

Third, that damn DONUT STEEL shit, look online and see what you can find, then you might realize why I took it as an attack. It was pretty obviously a mock.

[Jaxxoon R]

It wasn't