Already moved on

[Arclite]

I've moved on to other things, at least temporarily. My computer isn't exactly up to par, as I had to play it on lowest settings the first time, but when I get some upgrades I'll probably come back for another go and do a completionist playthrough on Nightmare, get all the secrets/achievements and 'stuff. But that's about it.
A good game that was worth the money, but oh it could've been so much more.

I think Id Software vastly underestimates the power of community modding, which is odd considering they work under Bethesda.
All you have to do is look at the lifespans of Half-Life/Half-Life 2, Fallout/Skyrim, and of course, the original Doom games, to get a glimpse of the power of community modding, and how it can extend a game's lifespan.
The groundwork for Doom 2016 is there, and if they just develop some modding programs/editors and allow the community to dig in, I am certain it will pay off for them as well.
Now I'm no programming expert, and I don't know how accessible the new Id Tech engine is, but I'm sure they could take some pages from Epic Games and how they have introduced the Unreal Engine 4 to the users. Unreal Tournament 4 is free, the Unreal Engine 4 is free, and Epic Games is still profiting while working alongside their community to help develop their projects.
Despite my love for Doom, and how much I crave designing some SP levels as well as playing some new genuine campaign maps (not the SnapMap fodder), I'll just be spending my time on UE4 and the new UT until something hopefully comes along for Doom 2016.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

Voltcom9 said:

Too bad the game was created without any mod support, I mean that seems to be the one thing that's kept the Doom community thriving decades after its release.

Bingo.

This pseudo-revival of old-school shooters is bound to be short-lived, anyway. Id Software may have delayed the inevitable with Doom 2016, but catering almost exclusively to the aging nostalgic crowd and expecting them to pay full price for essentially the same game over and over again will only get them so far. If they cannot come up with something else, people are just going to get bored again and no remake of an old classic is going to save Id this time.

I do not think you can make deliberately simple games like Doom and Wolfenstein more successful by simply amping up the production values; doing so will only serve to make them way more expensive to produce and take more space than they really need to. This is really starting to remind me of the FMV craze of the 90s, when the industry thought live-action footage would make their adventure games and railshooters more appealing.

[Buckshot]

JohnnyTheWolf said:

Bingo.

This pseudo-revival of old-school shooters is bound to be short-lived, anyway. Id Software may have delayed the inevitable with Doom 2016, but catering almost exclusively to the aging nostalgic crowd and expecting them to pay full price for essentially the same game over and over again will only get them so far. If they cannot come up with something else, people are just going to get bored again and no remake of an old classic is going to save Id this time.

I do not think you can make deliberately simple games like Doom and Wolfenstein more successful by simply amping up the production values; doing so will only serve to make them way more expensive to produce and take more space than they really need to. This is really starting to remind me of the FMV craze of the 90s, when the industry thought live-action footage would make their adventure games and railshooters more appealing.

Heh. I could replace every single instance of "id" or "doom/wolfenstein" or "90's" in the above statement and fill it in with "Activision", "infinity ward", "COD" and "2007" and it would have made a better, more justified statement.

Alternatively, I could have substituted those words with "Microsoft", "Bungie", "Halo" and "2001" and those statements above would also be factually accurate.

[Nineball]

I've been saying this since the announcement of the game. "no true mod support means this game will be dead within a month." and looky looky. the game is dead at this point.

I know that not everyone uses twitch as a means to measure a games popularity but twitch encompasses both pc and consoles and is a decent indicator to how popular a game is. as i type this there are only 322 viewers for doom.i mean ffs Blade and Soul, FFX re-master, and even kerbal space program have more active viewers right now. And steam numbers are even more pathetic by comparison.

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/ST3ho5a.png?1

No matter how good the single player was the game is bargain bin garbage overall without true mod support (the very thing that kept old school doom alive and allowed id and beth a market for new doom in the first place).

But hey keep saying we are wrong.

[Buckshot]

Nineball said:

No matter how good the single player was the game is bargain bin garbage overall

Ahhh see. There's the problem. So no matter how great it actually is, it's still just garbage to you, with or without mod support. Gotcha.

Bet it doesn't even matter who out there is playing & enjoying it... it's just absolute garbage because it's not on a top 10 list of games I don't give a fuck about, right?

Nineball said:

I've been saying this since the announcement of the game.

You absolutely have. Which means you never gave it a fair chance to begin with since you're mind was already set on nay-say from the start.

[Deatheye]

Nineball said:

No matter how good the single player was the game is bargain bin garbage overall

this makes no sense

[DMPhobos]

Im still playing it, but after completing it after my second run im gonna stop playing the campaign for a while. But that's no different to how i play all the previous (in the case of the classic ones, i mean the core game, without mods or wads) doom games, once i beat them i stop playing them for a while.

To me it's not so much as moving on past the game, but rather just giving it a rest, before replaying it sometime later. Just like every other game that i enjoy.

[snapshot]

Nineball said:

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/ST3ho5a.png?1

Multiplayer is Laughable

[Chubzdoomer]

Voltcom9 said:

Wow that was quick. Doesn't the new DOOM have any replay value?

Tons.

The levels are jam-packed with secrets, you can work on fully upgrading your suit, weapons, and runes, there's Nightmare and Ultra Nightmare for a bonus challenge, and then on top of all that there's SnapMap which, as limited and restrictive as it is, still adds a humongous amount of replay value to a game that already has a fairly lengthy, highly replayable campaign.

I've put over 125 hours into the game and it's still going strong for me.

[Chubzdoomer]

JohnnyTheWolf said:

This pseudo-revival of old-school shooters is bound to be short-lived, anyway. Id Software may have delayed the inevitable with Doom 2016, but catering almost exclusively to the aging nostalgic crowd and expecting them to pay full price for essentially the same game over and over again will only get them so far. If they cannot come up with something else, people are just going to get bored again and no remake of an old classic is going to save Id this time.

I do not think you can make deliberately simple games like Doom and Wolfenstein more successful by simply amping up the production values; doing so will only serve to make them way more expensive to produce and take more space than they really need to. This is really starting to remind me of the FMV craze of the 90s, when the industry thought live-action footage would make their adventure games and railshooters more appealing.

Have you actually played the game? Honest question. Because it isn't just DOOM and DOOM II repackaged with prettier graphics. It does have similarities, but the way it's structured and even the way combat works/flows is drastically different. To me it's like a bizarre (not in a bad way) hybrid of DOOM, Quake, and Painkiller. I'd go as far as to say that there hasn't been anything quite like it before.

[MrDeAD1313]

I'm in love with the new Doom game. It's in my top favorite games of all time I'd say. I've played through 2 and 1/2 times now, sunk lots of time into MP and played a bunch of snapmaps. I love the campaign mostly but I really enjoy the MP a lot as well. I switch between the two pretty evenly. But I've laid off for about a week now. Not because I've moved on but because it's not the only game in the entire world that I have to play just because it's finally released. I've actually taken to The Witcher series quite a bit in the past few days finally and will be playing through the series from 1-3 (had the first 2 for ages but never really played until now).

Does this mean I've moved on from doom? Uh, I guess in some ways yes. Maybe I'm wrong for saying that I haven't. The hype for it was so much fun and the game was even better than I'd dreamed it would ever be. But it doesn't mean it's not good like some posters here claim because it's not the ONLY game I'm ever going to play again. It's a great time playing any part of the game at any given time, but I still have other games and hobbies I enjoy aside from the new doom.

[Riccardoman]

chubz said:

.....and Painkiller.

On what aspect does it resemble Painkiller? Just curious

[JohnnyTheWolf]

Buckshot said:

Heh. I could replace every single instance of "id" or "doom/wolfenstein" or "90's" in the above statement and fill it in with "Activision", "infinity ward", "COD" and "2007" and it would have made a better, more justified statement.

Well, Call of Duty is just one of many franchises owned by Activision and the studios working on the games all seem interchangeable nowadays.

Comparatively, the once legendary studio that was Id Software seems to be on its last legs nowadays: RAGE was a failure and Doom 2016 was a surprise hit because expectations have become so low at this point, their last hit being Doom 3 in 2004.

chubz said:

Have you actually played the game?

No, but I have watched plenty of gameplay videos.

The gameplay itself seems decent, but everything else just looks so insipid - the plot, the setting, the monsters, the weapons, the music - I really do not feel like paying full price for it. I had pretty much the same reaction towards RAGE and Wolfenstein: The New Order (which was not made by Id, but still).

The only faux old-school first-person shooter I have really enjoyed is Shadow Warrior 2013, but I have not played it much ever since.

[Nineball]

Buckshot said:

Ahhh see. There's the problem. So no matter how great it actually is, it's still just garbage to you, with or without mod support. Gotcha.

Bet it doesn't even matter who out there is playing & enjoying it... it's just absolute garbage because it's not on a top 10 list of games I don't give a fuck about, right?



You absolutely have. Which means you never gave it a fair chance to begin with since you're mind was already set on nay-say from the start.

Actually i really enjoyed the campaign. But once thats over and done with whats left? nothing. i even stated in another thread that if judged solely on its campaign (AND if you also take out dooms mod history) the game is a solid 8-9/10 but when you factor in everything else, like how shitty snapmap is, how terrible MP is, how great mods for older doom is and the impact it has had, AND if you factor in what was promised to us, the single player gets dragged down and the game as a whole its a colossal fucking failure. Mod support would easily fix everything wrong with the game, just like how mod tools for the original doom not only fixed any issues it had but also gave way to all sorts of replay ability. Could the same be said for new doom?

So i did give it it's fair shot, we just weren't given what was promised.

If i was wrong if i was truly wrong MP would be going on strong (its not), Snapmap would be flourishing (it's not), and the number of active players would be high. The numbers for Doom fell faster than Battleborn lol. I would love to hear your explanation as to why doom isn't doing so hot for a DooM game.

[snapshot]

riky_rice said:

On what aspect does it resemble Painkiller? Just curious

You have to kill hordes of enemies before going to the next room ...... :P

[Chubzdoomer]

riky_rice said:

On what aspect does it resemble Painkiller? Just curious

The way in which some areas have you fighting off swarms of spawning enemies before you can proceed.

EDIT: DMGUY beat me to the punch!

[Buckshot]

Nineball said:

So i did give it it's fair shot, we just weren't given what was promised.

If i was wrong if i was truly wrong MP would be going on strong (its not), Snapmap would be flourishing (it's not), and the number of active players would be high. The numbers for Doom fell faster than Battleborn lol. I would love to hear your explanation as to why doom isn't doing so hot for a DooM game.

I just do not believe that whether id included a full mod studio suite or capability or if the multiplay was lightyears ahead of anything current would have made a huge impact in the games popularity. *Maybe* only in longevity to the base of players who already play it. Doom 3 was pretty mod friendly... and it's nowhere near as popular today as the classic DOOM's are.

I'm not even certain I would want the multiplayer to take on mass appeal nowadays... looked how it has ruined all the other major FPS titles (COD, Battlefield, etc). The games are literally a annual subscription of a joke anymore. full id studio suite tools would be cool, but again, I doubt it would extend popularity any further than the group who does modding already, which on a grand scheme of things, isn't going to make the game any more popular than it already is.

We have to look at Wolfenstein, for example... no mod capabilities. No multiplayer the past 3 titles (Wolf 2009, Wolf:TNO, Wolf: TOB) Keeps selling no matter what. Still has a strong fanbase and a lot of critics enjoy it. It's already been confirmed that another Wolf game is en route. In fact, it seems like only the new stuff... RAGE, didn't do so well. Any rehash or remake or reboot of a prior 90's id game gets tons of attention and purchases.

I'm certain, with or without mod support or multiplay going forward, we'll see DOOM releases for time many decades, centuries, millennia to come. It's a magnet for a niche FPS market. Same with Quake. Same With Wolfenstein. Probably even Commander Keen again... which is why Bethesda won't release the IP to Tom Hall.

Hell, even Prey 2 was just confirmed to be back on track under a new studio, and Bethesda is set to make a major announcement about it (along with other titles), and that was as niche of a FPS game on the market as it can get. RoTT even had a remaster/rerelease/something. I heard Blakestone is next up on the revial block. Duke Nukem had it's chance, didn't do so well this generation... give it another 10 years, people will cry enough and miss it too much and another sequel will plop out.

My point is.... it'll keep happening, whether the end result is favorable or not. Would have thought the ridiculous comic titles of nearly a century ago would be blockbuster Disney-produce movie titles now? Some not so memorable as others, but there's always a market segment willing and wanting.

[Denzoa]

Nineball said:

Actually i really enjoyed the campaign. But once thats over and done with whats left? nothing. i even stated in another thread that if judged solely on its campaign (AND if you also take out dooms mod history) the game is a solid 8-9/10 but when you factor in everything else, like how shitty snapmap is, how terrible MP is, how great mods for older doom is and the impact it has had, AND if you factor in what was promised to us, the single player gets dragged down and the game as a whole its a colossal fucking failure. Mod support would easily fix everything wrong with the game, just like how mod tools for the original doom not only fixed any issues it had but also gave way to all sorts of replay ability. Could the same be said for new doom?

So i did give it it's fair shot, we just weren't given what was promised.

If i was wrong if i was truly wrong MP would be going on strong (its not), Snapmap would be flourishing (it's not), and the number of active players would be high. The numbers for Doom fell faster than Battleborn lol. I would love to hear your explanation as to why doom isn't doing so hot for a DooM game.

I honestly completely agree, I've been playing the original doom for about 17 years or so now? Source ports since 2005 and still to this day.

But the new DOOM well I don't know, I was so hyped, and enjoyed the hell out of it the first week, I beat the game in 1 full night of just continuous gaming because I got so sucked into it, it was a night worth remembering, although not looking for too many secrets. Afterwards I took up nightmare and played all the way to the end looking for every secret and collectible which I still haven't found all of them.

But the multiplayer is so boring for some reason.. I don't know it's too easy in my opinion, you just find an unbalanced load-out and you win. Simple as that. I can get my screenshots off of steam and post them, showing that I've been on top of the scoreboard by a LONGSHOT every single match, although in the beta I got my ass handed to me oftenly by Quakelive/Reflex/CPMA players etc. (Checked their profiles and they had like 1k hours in those games).

and well SnapMap idk.. I have NEVER and I mean NEVER found a single match since launch on SnapMap. No coop, no survival, no duels, no classic DM just Nothing.
It's all a big fail in my eyes, without mod support DOOM is just a shell of what it's ancestors are.

And I'm not saying this because I prefer the older games, no I'd actually like a newer iteration of DOOM with mod support, but they gave us SnapMap wich is about as limited as timesplitters' map creator so to speak.

Go ahead and say that I hate everything new but really I don't, I'm just dissapointed that we don't get to mod the game that was kept alive for over 20 years BECAUSE of mods.

[Almonds]

... You do realize that so far there hasn't been any concrete confirmation or denial on the release of additional mod tools, which could very well mean those could be happening in a nearby future, right?

This is of course, assuming you did NOT expect full-fledged mod support since day one, because then I don't believe I'd be the only person to giggle internally.

Also, seems like the forum grognards are commuting in this single thread to share their thinly-veiled hateposts disguised as criticism. Not to blame anyone of course, it's getting progressively harder to find a place especially designed to engage double down mode. Kudos, kausas.

[Deatheye]

JohnnyTheWolf said:

No, but I have watched plenty of gameplay videos.

so, you have no idea what you're talking about

you have literally no idea what you're talking about - what should people do who have no idea what they're talking about? :)

btw rage was a decent shooter and the wolfenstein games are awesome, sure they have their flaws like every other game has as well, but they are worthy successor of the wolfenstein franchise

[Moon Marin]

idk why you guys think the multiplayer is so bad, the only thing truly bad about it is the lack of an FFA/Duel/CTF game mode.

The loadouts are a subjective part to be satisfied with or not, and in my opinion while not being 100% true to the arena formula the loadouts are not really a hinderance to the game. Its quite exciting in either case and there is enough options to work with to give you strong loadouts (example, a two shotgun loadout might seem weak but if you opt for the teleporter for the equipment you're able to close the gap against long range targets quickly and dominate close up with two strong close range weapons).

there is depth to the mp, maybe you have to play it to see it. I had nearly 50 hours in the alpha/beta tests and almost 80 hours logged in the new doom already, about 20 of those have to be MP matches, 20 campaign and 40 in snapmap (building good levels takes a long time).

the game has so much to offer, there's just too much word of mouth from select people like in this thread who don't have anything better to do but find things to dislike about the game when there is so much more to enjoy about it.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

Deatheye said:

so, you have no idea what you're talking about

I have watched video playthroughs of the game and extensively read about it, so I do believe I have a pretty good idea what I am talking about the things that do not require me to play the game, e.g. the story, the music, the voice acting, the visuals, the weapon and monster design...

But hey, if you disagree with me on that, feel free to offer me a Steam key. ;)

btw rage was a decent shooter and the wolfenstein games are awesome, sure they have their flaws like every other game has as well, but they are worthy successor of the wolfenstein franchise

I bought RAGE years after its release and even then I thought it was super bland and boring. I am very glad I did not play full price for it.

Much like Doom 2016, Wolfenstein - The New Order looks like a decent shooter, but everything else about it is discouraging me from buying it. Not only that, but the game is already two years old and yet it appears to still be sold at the same price as Doom 2016!

[DMPhobos]

Buckshot said:

I just do not believe that whether id included a full mod studio suite or capability or if the multiplay was lightyears ahead of anything current would have made a huge impact in the games popularity. *Maybe* only in longevity to the base of players who already play it. Doom 3 was pretty mod friendly... and it's nowhere near as popular today as the classic DOOM's are.

The thing that bothers me about mod support on the new game, it's that everyone expect's it to revolutionize the game the same way it did on the classic games. I think that that's wrong to a certain extent. It's been 12 years since Doom 3 was released, and despite some truly awesome mods, very few of them match the scale of an average doom WAD. I do believe that Id should release modding tools for the game. But i feel that few people may jump at the chance to mod the game because of the complexity and scale for modding the game.

[snapshot]

JohnnyTheWolf said:

I have watched video playthroughs of the game and extensively read about it, so I do believe I have a pretty good idea what I am talking about the things that do not require me to play the game, e.g. the story, the music, the voice acting, the visuals, the weapon and monster design...

Spoiler

https://scontent-mrs1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13418906_10153639160658372_3684305460911752350_n.jpg?oh=5109ae08e55f394e3e864ec82c4a8388&oe=5805F9DB

[Deatheye]

JohnnyTheWolf said:

Much like Doom 2016, Wolfenstein - The New Order looks like a decent shooter, but everything else about it is discouraging me from buying it.

duuuude you haven't even played wolfenstein but rant about it aaaas weeeeeeeeeeeeeellllll :DDDDDD

[snapshot]

lmao what a judgemental .

[Chezza]

Moon Marin said:

idk why you guys think the multiplayer is so bad, the only thing truly bad about it is the lack of an FFA/Duel/CTF game mode.

I totally agree. I may of said this before but all it really needs is a classic FFA mode with the old school spawn weapon pickup with no carry limit mechanics. Also user dedicated servers where you can browse would be a much welcomed addition. And to expand on that, merge the lobbies of general and Snapmap multiplayer, so we don't have to reload the game. Such a minor inconvenience can literally harm people's desire to search for games.

Otherwise the current MP system is good. The weapon loadout is logical and convenient and the spawns around the map adds to the love/hate luck factor.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

Deatheye said:

duuuude you haven't even played wolfenstein but rant about it aaaas weeeeeeeeeeeeeellllll :DDDDDD

Again, if you truly believe I cannot judge a game for the things that do not require me playing it, you are welcome to offer me a Steam key. ;)

[snapshot]

JohnnyTheWolf said:

you are welcome to offer me a Steam key. ;)

Don't be an ass .

[Tritnew]

Jesus, Johnny. Don't be such a hypocrite. You kind of remind me of one of my friends, who would argue about almost everything, and most of what he argues about doesn't even MAKE SENSE. Like, Brutal DOOM is super cereal, or about Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric being GOOD, but won't accept anyone's opinion on it. I can't even talk about my opinion on a god damn game without it getting shitted on by a Sanic Fanboy (which he also is).

I'm sorry, but I had to point that out. Wolfenstein: The New Order is a great game, but you're REALLY reminding me of the people who shitted on DOOM so early without giving it a try.