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hardcore_gamer

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Jesus, Johnny. Don't be such a hypocrite. You kind of remind me of one of my friends, who would argue about almost everything, and most of what he argues about doesn't even MAKE SENSE. Like, Brutal DOOM is super cereal, or about Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric being GOOD, but won't accept anyone's opinion on it. I can't even talk about my opinion on a god damn game without it getting shitted on by a Sanic Fanboy (which he also is).

I'm sorry, but I had to point that out. Wolfenstein: The New Order is a great game, but you're REALLY reminding me of the people who shitted on DOOM so early without giving it a try.

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DMPhobos said:

But i feel that few people may jump at the chance to mod the game because of the complexity and scale for modding the game.


Bingo. What could be done by 1 or 2 people on the classic DOOM mod tools (which, btw, most were all 3rd party... at least with doom 2016 we get snap map out the box), would now take entire teams of people and a lot of complexity/man hours behind it. It's not even comparable.

And the only real modders these days have floated to engines that are made specifically for that; unreal & unity. Which are just engines, and no base game behind it.

And we don't call them modders anymore... rather indie devs :p

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Tritnew said:

Jesus, Johnny. Don't be such a hypocrite.

[...]

I'm sorry, but I had to point that out. Wolfenstein: The New Order is a great game, but you're REALLY reminding me of the people who shitted on DOOM so early without giving it a try.


I do not think it would be reasonable to pay $60 each just to give those two games a try.

I am not criticising the gameplay here, but rather everything else. This is 2016: thanks to Youtube, you no longer need to actually play a game to appreciate its story, its voice acting, its soundtrack, its visuals, its weapon and monster design, its modding community, etc.

And no, I am not pirating the games either. *That* would be hypocritical... and illegal.

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I fail to see how you can judge gameplay in a demonstrably gameplay focused game if you don't actually play the game. That's like saying you think chess is boring because you watched two people stare at a board for half an hour.

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I haven't played since the 20th and have put more time into classic Doom since. It feels like an empty experience after the initial enthusiasm and time put into new Doom.

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I have played the game a lot since the 13th and haven't put any time into classic Doom since. It feels like a well constructed experience after what was thought to be a somewhat run-of-the-mill campaign.

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Edward850 said:

I fail to see how you can judge gameplay in a demonstrably gameplay focused game if you don't actually play the game. That's like saying you think chess is boring because you watched two people stare at a board for half an hour.

And then asking people to send him a chess set to "critique" it "for real".

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Deatheye said:

so, you have no idea what you're talking about


To be fair, I've been defending DOOM up and down (flashback to the great quote potshot war in the other thread) and I haven't played it yet either. ;)

But there is something different about playing it vs watching it. JohnnyTheWolf may grow to like it after playing it...I may actually find something I really dislike about it when I play it.

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I think some of you are being a little harsh. Yea...the arena battles get old kinda quick but I think the game is excellent. Atmosphere is good, graphics are amazing, gameplay is intense. They tried to stay true to Doom as much as they could with modern technology. It's already in my Doom repertiore. Doom isn't easy to remake by today's standards.

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This has turned into a pretty funny thread while I'v been away, ohh you silly sallys and your constant unfound bitching.

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I definitely feel like this engine will spawn the future of the series now.
So this may not be the Doom to end all Dooms, but that's fine because its always been an evolving episodic/progressive series if that makes any sense.
This game adds finely into the series if you continue to play the originals, its always nice to jump into this again to catch retro throwback material.

Judging by the team behind this, they seem pretty freaking committed to making quality content giving time. More than likely the team is enjoying some well deserved R&R before heading back onto the drawing boards.
I know we will see multiple DLC material for mp and Snapmap before summers end, with atleast 1 expansion for another campaign in the not to far future.

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JohnnyTheWolf said:

I am not criticising the gameplay here, but rather everything else. This is 2016: thanks to Youtube, you no longer need to actually play a game to appreciate its story, its voice acting, its soundtrack, its visuals, its weapon and monster design, its modding community, etc.

Yet you judge the whole game while you are missing the most escential aspect of it: The gameplay.

For some games that are more about a narrative experience, more focused on atmosphere and visuals, you might be right. But for this game it isn't the case. It's gameplay first, and many of the things you mention second. By just watching videos you can get a general idea about it, and you can sometimes tell if the game it's not your cup of coffe. But you can't judge the whole game from it and speak for it just from videos

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JohnnyTheWolf said:

I do not think it would be reasonable to pay $60 each just to give those two games a try.

I am not criticising the gameplay here, but rather everything else. This is 2016: thanks to Youtube, you no longer need to actually play a game to appreciate its story, its voice acting, its soundtrack, its visuals, its weapon and monster design, its modding community, etc.

And no, I am not pirating the games either. *That* would be hypocritical... and illegal.

lets apply this logic to the original doom

"wow this looks like dog shit, you can't look up you can't look down, all the monsters are 2d. I haven't played it yet so I dont know what the weapon feed back is like but I got the nonexistent story and visuals down so I think I'm good enough to judge the game."

This is what you sound like

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Presentation isn't everything. Gameplay trumps all. Story, graphics, voice acting, music, that's all window dressing. Icing on the cake. The meat of the meal is the gameplay. Always has been always will be. I don't care if there's not a single voice actor in a game, the gameplay is what matters. Meaningless labels like "AAA" don't change that. Is the game fun or not, that's what matters.

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I fail to see how you can judge gameplay in a demonstrably gameplay focused game if you don't actually play the game. That's like saying you think chess is boring because you watched two people stare at a board for half an hour.


This is a commentary on your own failure to deconstruct gameplay more than anything. I find I can get a pretty good idea of how a game plays with video footage alone, unless the player is terrible (which is a non-issue once the game is released into the wild and you have many youtube channels to choose from). The one thing you cannot judge is input reactiveness, which while important, wouldn't save a game that isn't appealing for a variety of other reasons.

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For those who feel Doom 2016 is boring now, you could now look at how Blackroom is going.

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Strafe jumping is not my type lol, Neither is rocket jumping (which appearantly was replaced by Gauss jumping in Doom '16) .

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princetontiger said:

The original doom will never tire.

I'm sick of it, I Moved to other games .

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DMGUYDZ64 said:

I'm sick of it, I Moved to other games .

Didn't you say somewhere you don't even like the base game, that you only play it all modded out? Why?

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MrGlide said:

Didn't you say somewhere you don't even like the base game, that you only play it all modded out? Why?

Base game is too simple and makes me really feel like it needs extra stuff, Although the levels are fine, So i like to play it with extra mods like those who change behaviour of weapons .

I Also (and Especially) like those levelpacks that add new feel to the game like Ancient Aliens and Bloodstein, This is why i find most SnapMaps boring, Most of them feel the same.

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Voros said:

For those who feel Doom 2016 is boring now, you could now look at how Blackroom is going.


What does that have to do with Doom?

The Blackroom KS was based on an outdated understanding of crowdfunding. Crowdfunding - especially KS - changed incredibly quick within the past six to nine months from "hey, I have a good idea, I write it down on a napkin and post a photo of it, because that's enough to get me funded" to "I actually have to deliver something close to what I would have to show to a production company, because oh-so-many crowdfunders now know that a simple promise is not enough".

When I saw the teaser to that KS, I chuckled, and actually thought about backing it. When I saw what they ACTUALLY have to show, I couldn't help but laugh myself out the door, because they thought that their names and some random concepts are enough to - now get this (which IIRC is unheard of? please correct me) - raise enough money from backers to get a distributer/producer to cover the remaining cost. So basically the "advantages" of crowdfunding coupled with the disadvantages of regular game development.

Doom 2016 is a game developed how it userd to be. Most of the basic stuff was nearly finished when we got the first E3 presentation. After that, it was polishing, bringing together the narrative, finishing maps and bosses etc. pp. The foundation was there and working.

Blackroom was/is - to this point - a brainfart of Romero who thought that his name alone and some concepts would be enough to get the money to pitch it to producers.

Now don't get me wrong, I love Romero and Adrian Carmack for what they did, but Blackroom - up until know - was one of the biggest jokes I have seen in recent crowdfunding history, which clearly shows they completely misunderstood not only the concept, but also the current state crowdfunding is in.

To get back to my first point: what has Blackroom to do with people who don't like Doom 2016 MP or SnapMap, and have played through the campaign, and thus are getting a little bit bored playing it again?

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I haven't played it....

Because I don't have the money to get the new Doom. But I'm really excited to play it, because I heard SO MANY good things about it.

To be honest, I don't know why people aren't exactly happy about it.

The only complaint I would probably have is not enough Hell levels lol. :3

We need some prequel DLC Old Blood style.... :D

That and well... I don't know. Maybe some more classic-style levels? Arenas are good and all (I mean I am used to them, I did play a ton of Serious Sam when I was growing up.) but......

In Doom? Eh.... maybe it's more of a "You have to play it, to believe it."

But until then, I'm sorta in the middle. I mean one of the GENUINE complaints that I probably have is....

What happened to the horror factor? I mean look I know that Doom is about action, bang-bang, but what made the original Doom so awesome was that you had this blend of action and horror.

It wasn't all metal, there were some thick and moody ambient tracks that built up tension, coupled with the hellishly realistic environments and the demons.... it was scary for the time.

Now is this new Doom scary?

Well to me, not really.... nothing seems to scare me that much. Then again maybe it'll be different with the sequel or something.

Or if they decide to release a bloodier and gorier version of Doom 3 called Doom 4 (not related to Doom 2016 btw).

IDK to be honest. :P

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To be honest, I don't know why people aren't exactly happy about it.


The answer is that attention spans are now the shortest they've ever been. It takes nothing short of a miraculous fluke of ingredients working together to make the perfect combination of gameplay mechanics and presentation to hold a gamer's attention for long periods of time. Funny this is, DOOM arguably had all of that...and it still wasn't enough.

It's not a detriment to the game, it's a detriment to society and its insanely fast-paced behaviour and habits. My opinion, anyway. I'm sure this is not universal, but it does speak for the number of gamers as a whole for the most part. The fact that it has no mod support and so many shortcomings in SnapMap doesn't help either. The game itself is good, though. But you can't just keep replaying a single player campaign over and over again. That's what MP and custom content are for, which are unfortunately sorely lacking in delivery of a decent platform for from Bethesda.

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'LOLOL DOOM THUCKTHHH ITH BADDD'
'DOOM IZ D3D ... DOOM IZ DOOMED!'
'I MOVED ON I DONT PLAY POOPY DOOM NO MORE'
'SNAPMAP THUCKSSS AND THO DOES DOOM!!!'

etc etc

I will never understand why today's entitled gamers will seethe and rage and froth at the mouth and spam hatred and negative energy for a game they don't like and / or even play!!! It drives me crazy. Same with the diablo 3 forums, yes I was around for D1 and D2 and one could argue they were better, but that is besides the point. D3 in itself has seen many major improvements and is a very good game.

Move on if it doesn't serve you??

Now the Doom campaign feels short, I will admit. 13 levels with one of them being very short. It feels like one and a half episodes of the original doom in magnitude, but that only adds more fuel to the fire - in that an expansion or DLC must be on its way :) :)

And in the meantime I will keep myself busy with the many challenges available.

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MusicallyInspired said:

The answer is that attention spans are now the shortest they've ever been. It takes nothing short of a miraculous fluke of ingredients working together to make the perfect combination of gameplay mechanics and presentation to hold a gamer's attention for long periods of time. Funny this is, DOOM arguably had all of that...and it still wasn't enough.

This is sadly from the cause and effect skinner techniques and gambler's hooks have had on the gaming industry. It's sad to see things have gone this way. Newer generation gamers didn't have a shallow pool some of us started with and back in the day, you played a game because it was fun mostly, not for the sake of filling some progress bar. It's kind of scary for me to see. But as the catalog of available products grows longer and longer we're seeing an overstimulated and oversaturated market.

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DoomzRules said:

I haven't played it....


You are a lucky guy then ;)
I wish i could play it again for the first time.

I dont have the time to play as long as in my early years. But when i have a hour i play the new doom and it makes as much fun as it was on release. It seems that a lot (not all!) gamers stop playing after the last achievement, unlock etc. As i started gaming i played the crap out of games like Turricane, Katakis, X-out, Super Contra and of course Doom. If a game makes fun then this should be enough to call it replay value.

But as mentioned before, this isnĀ“t just a gaming issue. People got spammed with so much shit every day. Even the biggest news are just a dry fart after a few days.

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