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MINDDomakr

Complaints

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Dear ID:

Please REMOVE all the stupid "limits" for the amounts of Demons and objects you can put in a map. That is so unbelievably frustrating.

Add ALL the fucking weapons. Don't leave out the chainsaw.

Add outdoor pieces or better yet give us good modding tools.

Forget Multiplayer and focus on Snap Map.

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From the E3 write ups, I'm afraid Snapmap is only going to be geared towards multiplayer maps. I'm waiting to hear from their actual presentation, but all signs point to Snapmap being DOA, sadly.

Unless you want to make deathmatch maps that no one can play in multiplayer.

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VentedPennies said:

From the E3 write ups, I'm afraid Snapmap is only going to be geared towards multiplayer maps. I'm waiting to hear from their actual presentation, but all signs point to Snapmap being DOA, sadly.

Unless you want to make deathmatch maps that no one can play in multiplayer.

What's DOA?

They should've made this game a PC exclusive. Consoles ruin everything.

I don't want more multiplayer add on gimmicks. I want more SnapMap content and editing abilities. That's what DOOM is all about anyways.

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What you're doing is like complaining to the cashier at Best Buy about how expensive the new iphone is.

We can't help you with that, sir.

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MINDustry said:

Dear ID:

Please REMOVE all the stupid "limits" for the amounts of Demons and objects you can put in a map. That is so unbelievably frustrating.

Add ALL the fucking weapons. Don't leave out the chainsaw.

Add outdoor pieces or better yet give us good modding tools.

Forget Multiplayer and focus on Snap Map.


1. There is a 12 monster limit because of processing power. You need to learn how to curate your maps better plain and simple. Because my maps are filled to the brim with Demons.

2. Im sure the chainsaw is a patch away. Youre right its silly its not there, but its not like what is here already isnt impressive.

3. Outdoor areas will need rules. How can you place an outdoor area and the outside of building be on the left side of you when it should be on the right?

4. I dont want modeling tools because I play more shit designs with the basic tools we have then I do good designs. Last thing we need is a bunch of lazy designers wasting my time with load screens because the community gets a clever ideas building annoying crap. The GTA floating ramps for instance. Its also not the point of snapmap.

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You can build a single-player map by dividing it into multiple-parts. If your map is high-quality I don't think most players will mind loading a second map to continue their adventure assuming of course you give them access to the weapons from the previous chapter.

In my Janitor Vs Zombies saga for example part 1 ends with the player making it to a certain checkpoint containing armor, health and a good weapon. The last thing that occurs is a message telling them to load chapter 2.

Ones they load part 2 they start back in the same room with full health and armor. All the weapons from the previous part are in the room and the player is informed to take the weapons they finished with in part 1. Of course they can cheat and take what they want but as long as they enjoy the game I don't care.

You have to think outside the box. Load times are already pretty long on a full resource map imagine 3 or even 4 times the wait, players would be extremely frustrated and it could hurt snap map.

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HALFRATS PS4 said:

1. There is a 12 monster limit because of processing power. You need to learn how to curate your maps better plain and simple. Because my maps are filled to the brim with Demons.


Explain further please? My maps are BIG, I want a lot of demons for a large map to get through. I shouldn't have to make my maps smaller just because of processing power. My PC is more than capable. Maybe your console isn't but mine sure is.

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Snapmap was made in mind for ALL CONSOLES, whether you like it or not.

Doom originates as a PC game, yes. But if more sells are possible in other platforms, then why not go for them? Of course, doing such things will cause limitations, since PCs are ever always upgrading further than consoles. So to compensate, they made Snapmap to have limits, so no matter the platform, ANYONE CAN PLAY IT!

To which i adore. I'm a poor bastard who couldn't upgraded his PC to play Doom. So it was more cost effective for me to get a PS4. And I LOVE that anyone, no matter platform, can play my snapmaps. Even with restrictions, i still am having a blast playing Snapmap. (Especially thanks to the good maps in this subforum!)

Also stop bitching about the 12 demon limit. Just have them spawn after one dies, and no one will bat an eye.

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MINDustry said:

Explain further please? My maps are BIG, I want a lot of demons for a large map to get through. I shouldn't have to make my maps smaller just because of processing power. My PC is more than capable. Maybe your console isn't but mine sure is.



Dont place over 12 turned on physical monsters. Uses waves, conductors, and hidden monsters. Only place a turned on physical monster if its necessary. Otherwise place the single physical monster but turn it off and use a trigger to turn it on when you want it to appear.

The way I run boss waves is like this. 6 demon group wave on a repeater, 5 mini boss event, single monster boss. see 12 monster. most of the time I have the mini boss event end and then spawn the boss thus opening 5 demon spots. And once the single boss is defeated I have it kill all AI and turn off the demon group wave as I use them for health dumps when glory killed.

Check out my levels they have waypoints, checkpoints, secrets, single player/4 coop campaign styled missions. Minute non breaking glitches yet to be fixed yet all playable and all easy to navigate. Search for #cyberhell 5 level total so far. always updating them when I learn new code.

#cyberhell

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I dl cyberhell s . Will play them later. You May consider making a thread if you don't have one

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MINDustry said:

Dear ID:

Please REMOVE all the stupid "limits" for the amounts of Demons and objects you can put in a map. That is so unbelievably frustrating.

so people can terry wad me and crash my game, no thanks. for snapmap the limits will remain, when/if modding tools come out then that will be fine.

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When I heard that Doom 4 had a level editor, I was pretty psyched. I wanted to take my favorite maps from various games and rebuild them in Doom (Mission from MW3, Morpheus from UT99, Perplex from Adv warefare, etc). Since SnapMap is modular, you don't get that kind of vertex freedom. But they did take a lot of the hard work out of map designing, all the behind-the-scenes stuff is handled and you can get right to the meat of it.

Once I got tinkering with integers is when I started "getting it" and Yes, the 12-monster rule bit me on the a**, but the work-around is simple and actually a better way to design...

When placing monsters set the visibility off (not True), do this for every one of them. I trigger every monster to be visible by the player. Either a trigger, a door, a weapon pickup, or when an integer compare hit's the right number. If you leave your monster's visibility to True, then the map has to "check in" with him even if you're on the other side of the map, which is not even noticeable, but the less processing you have going on, the better.

Accept it for what it is, it's pretty darn cool if you ask me.
-Gink

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For as much as I really enjoyed the single-player, I'm pretty disappointed with the snap map. It is very limiting.



Here is my first attempt with the snap map, the "Cryo-Labs". I haven't even populated it with any enemies, other than some sprinkling of possessed workers and scientists. Its not that its maxing out the demon space; its maxing out the object space.

I didn't think populating the rooms with generic default objects would take up that much space.

I hope they can do something to about the lack of elbow room for creativity.

Edit: now that I know the limitations. I'll try to make something cool out of what is capable.

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I'm late to the party, so I didn't get what "12 monsters ought to be enough for anyone" meant, until yesterday.

Well, I think it sucks to only have 12 monsters at a time on the map. I hope this is something that will change.

I know they wanted to make it functional for people who have lower-end machines, but all these limitations on the snap map are suffocating. And this is coming from someone, with a mediocre PC.

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Kontra Kommando said:

I'm late to the party, so I didn't get what "12 monsters ought to be enough for anyone" meant, until yesterday.

Well, I think it sucks to only have 12 monsters at a time on the map. I hope this is something that will change.

I know they wanted to make it functional for people who have lower-end machines, but all these limitations on the snap map are suffocating. And this is coming from someone, with a mediocre PC.


Yep, the 12-monster limit is an absolute killer, especially if you're trying to design classic-style maps.

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chubz said:

Yep, the 12-monster limit is an absolute killer, especially if you're trying to design classic-style maps.


Not really just have monsters in further rooms of the level turned off only to be turned on before you enter the modular they are in.

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HALFRATS PS4 said:

Not really just have monsters in further rooms of the level turned off only to be turned on before you enter the modular they are in.


What about non-linear maps where you want the enemies in a starting "hub" area to still exist when you loop back around? I know you can optimize your map by only spawning enemies when they need to exist, but that still doesn't really solve all of the problems caused by the limit, especially in maps that have you re-visiting previous areas.

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Sounds like you need to spawn "fresh" demons when you come back around. If the player is leaving an area with bad guys still alive, lock the door until they're all dead, then a trigger right before he finishes the loop to spawn some new ones.

Believe me, I want a room with 30 targets on screen, but the limit is there for a reason, prolly frame rate.

-G

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chubz said:

What about non-linear maps where you want the enemies in a starting "hub" area to still exist when you loop back around? I know you can optimize your map by only spawning enemies when they need to exist, but that still doesn't really solve all of the problems caused by the limit, especially in maps that have you re-visiting previous areas.


Have them placed, turned off and set on a later trigger. The same way you spawn any wave or single monster.

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It's certainly not as easy as old doom, but there are ways around it.

But yeah, the maps will never feel like Classic Doom. In classic doom, you could open a door and right away see what type of monsters are inside and prepare yourself. Here, not so much. You just go in and hope the map maker didn't fuck you.

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The maps don't seem to be able to be made big enough for anything but small linear-maps. But also, having the enemies spawn later doesn't seem like a viable alternative to having them just be there from the beginning. Suppose I wanted to take a different path from the beginning; there's a possibility that those monsters won't even be there until after I kill the other 12 on the alternative pathways.

EDIT: That pic I posted, of my first attempt; I consider that a medium-to-small map. You can run through it in a minute or two really. Yet it is maxing out the capacity of objects, with just a few generic decorations in each room. I was expecting to be able to make a map at least 5x bigger than that.

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Well, you would need to setup triggers and possibly booleans or integers to keep up with the player.

For instance, you could label each room to an integer and when the player enters the room, you set the integer to that specific room. When the player leaves (integer changes), you use an AI iterator to kill the leftovers on the map.

So basically, the map maker will need a way to always track the player.

Now, things get wayyyy too complicated if you also intend to make it a co-op experience. Now, you have to track both players (or 4), split the spawner in half/third/fourth and keep track.

So, integers with rooms and booleans with player #'s.
If 2 people, then spawn this other encounter (which is half the size of the original) at X integer and the other half at Y integer (X and Y being the player tracking integers). And then add a boolean for 3 players or 4.

So, yes, it's a pain in the ass and maybe I should make a reference map for player tracking now that I think about it.

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Kontra Kommando said:

That pic I posted, of my first attempt; I consider that a medium-to-small map. You can run through it in a minute or two really. Yet it is maxing out the capacity of objects, with just a few generic decorations in each room. I was expecting to be able to make a map at least 5x bigger than that.


That's a big map if you create some triggered scenarios. I would LOVE to show you, as well as everyone else my latest creation that's full of triggered events, unique objectives, cinematic moments and Arenas that should take you a minimum of 10 minutes to complete. Unfortunately I can't publish it due to the stupid dev mode bug. But as soon as the patch comes out, I will show everyone the potential of Snapmap. Other than the shitty 2 weapon limit, you might forget you're playing a Snapmap project.

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Chezza said:

That's a big map if you create some triggered scenarios. I would LOVE to show you, as well as everyone else my latest creation that's full of triggered events, unique objectives, cinematic moments and Arenas that should take you a minimum of 10 minutes to complete. Unfortunately I can't publish it due to the stupid dev mode bug. But as soon as the patch comes out, I will show everyone the potential of Snapmap. Other than the shitty 2 weapon limit, you might forget you're playing a Snapmap project.


I'll check it out when it's done. I'm sure there's a lot of potential in the snap map. I was looking at some videos on YouTube.

I heard in the next release they will allow people to create true single-player maps. I would be most interested in this. I hope they will allow for multiple exits to a level, leading to different places, and back. That would appease a lot of my grievances.

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VentedPennies said:

It's certainly not as easy as old doom, but there are ways around it.

But yeah, the maps will never feel like Classic Doom. In classic doom, you could open a door and right away see what type of monsters are inside and prepare yourself. Here, not so much. You just go in and hope the map maker didn't fuck you.


Yes you can. Have an invisible trigger or any trigger for that matter load them before you enter the room. Kill a wave in one room have its end switch load the next room up.

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HALFRATS PS4 said:

Yes you can. Have an invisible trigger or any trigger for that matter load them before you enter the room. Kill a wave in one room have its end switch load the next room up.


Aye it's how I do mine. I don't like monsters visually teleporting infront of the player. I frequently use invisible triggered spheres in bottlenecks and inevitable kills to trigger the next set of monsters waiting in the next room.

That being said, if someone wants to make a very open and interconnected map with several directions available then the 12 monster limit can become a hassle as some hall ways / paths could become empty as the monsters already spawned elsewhere. However it's not impossible to resolve. I believe someone else already mentioned this, but you could work on despawning / respawning monsters based on the direction the player takes. With the easy-to-use balloon True/False script you can have rooms permanently cleared once the player either reaches some point or killed all the monsters inside.

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I take back a lot of my earlier complaints. I finish the basic, and advanced snapmap academy tutorials, and I have a much better understanding of how it works now. I am currently working on a new map, and I believe it will be pretty awesome in the end. " UAC Command Post-Alpha 1"

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Kontra Kommando said:

I take back a lot of my earlier complaints. I finish the basic, and advanced snapmap academy tutorials, and I have a much better understanding of how it works now. I am currently working on a new map, and I believe it will be pretty awesome in the end. " UAC Command Post-Alpha 1"



Yeah lol like on how by the 2nd day of snapmaps release many deamed it a piece of crap. I'm like how the hell would you know you've barely tapped what it can do let alone even know how to do it. The current state of the gaming community is toxic.

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HALFRATS PS4 said:

Yeah lol like on how by the 2nd day of snapmaps release many deamed it a piece of crap. I'm like how the hell would you know you've barely tapped what it can do let alone even know how to do it. The current state of the gaming community is toxic.


I think the issue was that I was approaching it like it was Doombuilder2. I never wanted to add spawning triggers, in place of enemies that are already in the map. Nevertheless, I figured out how to do some cool stuff with it. I would have preferred them to already be on the map (but I get that it's performance straining). But there's a lot of work arounds. I am in the process of building a pretty complex map, that involves a lot of backtracking. I make use of 8 power stations (4 without power cords), and 3 key cards. Within that, there are plenty of demon encounters, mini-boss battles, and waves. This is much different than what I'm used to, but I think its good.

I want to make a map that plays similar to Classic Doom.

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