Guys...check this new Quake video out

[MusicallyInspired]

I'm confused as to what exactly a MOBA is. At first I thought it was tower defense because that's what I thought DOTA 2 was. But DOTA 2 is nothing like Overwatch either...is it? I'm so confused.

[snapshot]

The game is not exactly a MOBA, the term is used just to refer to how the game plays so much like a MOBA .

Player characters typically have various abilities and advantages that improve over the course of a game

A fusion of action games, role-playing games and real-time strategy games, players usually do not construct either buildings or units

[ChickenOrBeef]

MusicallyInspired said:

I'm confused as to what exactly a MOBA is. At first I thought it was tower defense because that's what I thought DOTA 2 was. But DOTA 2 is nothing like Overwatch either...is it? I'm so confused.

This is what a MOBA is:

-Team VS Team multiplayer
-Players choose their own "hero" character
-Each hero has unique abilities/attributes
-You level up your hero over the course of the match (so you start at Level 1 at the start of each match, but level up quickly throughout the match to gain new abilities)
-The goal is usually to destroy the other team's base
-There are NPCs on each team that usually march towards the enemy's base
-So the gameplay consists of fighting against enemy players, enemy NPCs, and enemy NPC spawn points, all while leveling up your character and shopping for new items


I've never actually played a MOBA, but I kept hearing about them, so I at least wanted to understand them. As you can see, the formula makes for an experience of immediate gratification since you're not leveling a character over the life of the game, but rather just the match itself. MOBAs also combine elements of both competitive multiplayer and co-operative multiplayer, along with strategy games. So you can see why they became so popular.

Overwatch is not a MOBA since there's no NPCs and you're not leveling up your character. It's just a competitive multiplayer shooter with "hero" characters. Quake: Champions looks to be even further removed from the MOBA genre because the characters can pick up other guns.

[DooMancuBus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvDyLCadGGY

Tim Willits: "I want to make sure our fans know that we are listening to them."

[TAPETRVE]

If anything, character-based shooters are more inspired by tournament fighting games than MOBAs. Anyone remember Unreal Championship II? Not exactly the same, but you get the idea.

[TheWizard]

JoeKilledKenney2016 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvDyLCadGGY

Tim Willits: "I want to make sure our fans know that we are listening to them."

This is the interview all Quake fans need to see.

[Riccardoman]

JoeKilledKenney2016 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvDyLCadGGY

Tim Willits: "I want to make sure our fans know that we are listening to them."

"Bla bla bla Overwatch???"
Tim Willits: "Well, we've been starting our game before that title"
That's extremely reassuring to me

[TheWizard]

The most important line is this "You're still fragging people, you still gotta time all the items, you still pick up the weapons, rocket jumping..."

[Riccardoman]

TheWizard said:

The most important line is this "You're still fragging people, you still gotta time all the items, you still pick up the weapons, rocket jumping..."

A quote from a UT forum thread:

"Originally Posted by C****
Quakes weapons are core archetypes based around situational utility where the skill cap is much more complex because you have to understand the best situations for each weapon and switch between them accordingly. For that, the weapons are not nearly as friendly as you might be thinking. Think that instead of an alternate fire every weapon is a specific tool meant to solve specific situations. And by that you can disallow your opponent effectiveness in key situations by denying that specific tool for those specific situations.
The overall meta of Quake is far from friendly. The weapons simplicity revolves more around having the full arsenal at your disposal than it does by having weapons that are more generally complex."

I wonder how they'll make the game friendly to newcomers while also maintaining the basic mechanics that made Quake 3 the game we all know and love

[TheWizard]

riky_rice said:

A quote from a UT forum thread:

"Originally Posted by C****
Quakes weapons are core archetypes based around situational utility where the skill cap is much more complex because you have to understand the best situations for each weapon and switch between them accordingly. For that, the weapons are not nearly as friendly as you might be thinking. Think that instead of an alternate fire every weapon is a specific tool meant to solve specific situations. And by that you can disallow your opponent effectiveness in key situations by denying that specific tool for those specific situations.
The overall meta of Quake is far from friendly. The weapons simplicity revolves more around having the full arsenal at your disposal than it does by having weapons that are more generally complex."

I wonder how they'll make the game friendly to newcomers while also maintaining the basic mechanics that made Quake 3 the game we all know and love

Well, like any modern esport game I'm sure there's going to be a ranking system and seasons for competitive play. This gives newer players a chance because they'll be facing other newer players. I'm sure someone's going to complain about that because "in the old days" it didn't have that, but the game was still new. New players have no chance against veterans to even learn the game like that veteran once had the chance to.

[Riccardoman]

I'm stupid. I meant appealing to younger generations

[TheWizard]

riky_rice said:

I'm stupid. I meant appealing to younger generations

I was like 10 when I played Quake 3 and loved it. I'm not sure what you mean.

Don't worry about the younger generations. If you think they can't handle a game like Quake think again, Quake was unique for it's time, and it's going to be unique this time around too. Everyone did fine back then, everyone will do fine now.

EDIT:

I have a prediction:
Quake Champions, when it comes to competitive play will be more focused on team competitions rather than duels. Team play is what makes the $$$.

[Riccardoman]

I was around that age too with UT, but let's face it, gaming industry has changed, kids face challenges in a different way than we did back then. COD, LOL, DOTA, Overwatch.. their approach and overall design is vastly different from old school games (2000? and before)

[ChickenOrBeef]

TheWizard said:

I have a prediction:
Quake Champions, when it comes to competitive play will be more focused on team competitions rather than duels. Team play is what makes the $$$.

That definitely seems to be the case. When Tim Willits was asked about dueling he basically said "Well yeah we'll have Deathmatch and all that stuff...but we're working on making one of our team modes more eSports focused". And he was asked in a separate interview what he's going to talk about at QuakeCon, and he said they're going to talk more about "their eSports mode", among other things.

So it seems Deathmatch/Duel will be present to satisfy the fans, but the main eSports mode this time around will be team-based.

[Clonehunter]

Interestingly enough, competitive Madden play seems to revolve around individual players, despite the fact that the Madden games usually allow multiple people to control a single team.

[Riccardoman]

About one thing I'm sure. Quake/UT Deathmatch and Duel will never die. Peolpe will always return to it from time to time

Clonehunter said:

Interestingly enough, competitive Madden play seems to revolve around individual players, despite the fact that the Madden games usually allow multiple people to control a single team.

FIFA and NBA also, isn't that funny? I assume it's because those games are clunky and full of bugs

[PseudoGold]

Tetzlaff said:

What is a MOBA?

A game that allows you to learn the most foul-mouthed forms of Russian in existence.

[TAPETRVE]

I'm pretty sure a lot of people would be less ill-disposed towards the concept of "hero shooters", if we stopped comparing it to DOTA and LOL, and started comparing it to Street Fighter or Tekken instead.

[Riccardoman]

PseudoGold said:

A game that allows you to learn the most foul-mouthed forms of Russian in existence.

HAHAHAHA!

[Riccardoman]

Guys there's a new interview

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/21/quake-champions-tim-willits-interview-people-are-afraid-of-quake-which-is-kind-of-awesome-5958340/

Everything seems perfect, except:

"Now, we have passive abilities and we have active abilities. And we know that people play first person shooters differently. Some people love the strafe jump, some people don’t rocket jump, some people don’t use air control, and some people are more aggressive or defensive.

So you could pick a character that has some passive abilities, maybe one that’s a little faster, say, that fit with your play style. Then you take that active ability and that’s what you use in specific situations, but it doesn’t change the way you play Quake"

No timed powerups it seems. Characters will have limitations

[TAPETRVE]

Thumbs down for the dismissal of Quake Wars. It may have been no "true" Quake, but it was very solid nonetheless.

[DooMancuBus]

GC: I’m upset that it doesn’t have a Lovecraftian single-player campaign. And I’m sure there are other people that are complaining – crazy as it may seem to me – that it’s not a sci-fi Strogg-based game.

TW: Yes, yes! [laughs] So… let me turn that question around. Tell me your… you play a lot of Quake, I take it?

GC: Back in the day, sure.

TW: You mentioned Lovecraft, so you’re hardcore.

GC: [laughs]

TW: The codename for this project, until Sunday, was Lovecraft. And people that knew Quake were like, ‘That’s the worst possible codename ever’. And the people that did not know Quake told me it was the worst possible codename ever… But your memories of playing Quake, what are your favourite experiences of playing Quake?

GC: Ah, oh. This is interesting. I remember the first room of the first game as a real milestone moment. The fact that it was in proper 3D, my first shower of gib when I blew up a monster, the gothic architecture, and the flames and fire…

TW: [laughs] That’s it! And what about how you played it?

GC: I remember it being very fast, and I couldn’t cope with the mouse controls because I only used the keyboard on Doom. And I kept being killed, and I couldn’t aim up properly, and I had to learn how to circle strafe and use rocket jumps…

TW: OK, good. Yes! So, what we found, and you fall right into this category with everyone else, is that when people visualise Quake… when you say Quake you think of Lovecraftian, gothic architecture. But when you think of how you played it, you think of circle strafing and combat that most people associate with Quake III. But they don’t visualise Quake III, they visualise Quake I. Most people’s favourite memories of Quake are, ‘I played multiplayer with my friends!’ and dragging your computers together for a LAN party.

So what Champions is – and it’s a tight focus – is it takes that visual style and the Elder Gods and Lovecraft, Cthulhu, and Shub-Niggurath… that look and feel and grittiness, and it incorporates that in a Quake III/Quake Live style of strafe-jumping, rocket-jumping, air control. So it’s very important for us to be true to that feel, and then it adds the champions, with their abilities, as an evolution of our genre. It adds a layer that makes it a little more advanced, gives more stuff for people to do; it modernises it to some degree.

But it’s important for us, and I designed the shareware version of the original Quake. So I know how important it is! So that essence of what Quake is, is very important. So the question is, ‘Why not make a single-player campaign?’ We want to make a tight-focused, multiplayer-only experience for the PC. No excuses, no limitations.

GC: Obviously you’re not going to announce anything today. But was that just you telling me a story when you say this doesn’t close the door on other types of Quake game? Because if you’re making something that is this specific, that implies you could still do a Quake single-player and whatever.

TW: We are not shutting the door on new consoles or single-player…

GC: Because I know Jens Matthies from MachineGames would love to make that.

TW: [Purposefully ignores comment] We wanted a focused game, draw your lines and make the best game we possibly can within those boundaries.

GC: Will there be any lore in Champions at all?

TW: Oh yes. The fact that you said Lovecraft, that puts you in a different category of fan.

GC: I do like Lovecraft. Well, not the man himself, obviously. But Bloodborne kind of renewed my interest in using that kind of backdrop for a single-player game.

(We’re interrupted again by the PR guy)

GC: I’m done, we are done!

TW: [laughs]

GC: Well, it’s been a pleasure to meet you. I look forward to seeing Quake become famous again.

TW: Me too! Great to see you.



Interesting...! :)

[Riccardoman]

TW: [laughs] So there are millions of people that love playing Quake Live.




I must be playing the wrong game...

[Jaxxoon R]

riky_rice said:

No timed powerups it seems. Characters will have limitations

How did you ever come to that conclusion from this statement? He just said characters have both active and passive abilities. And then he said there are timer items not even a page later in the same interview.

[Riccardoman]

Each champion having different passive attributes like different movement, hp, armor, air control, strafing, rocket jumping, hitboxes, etc makes the game almost impossible to balance.

I could get used to one active ability for each class and even like it, but this seems like a questionable move by id. I would like every champion to behave the same under the good "restrictions" of the classic quake arena style gameplay.

Sorry I meant powerups that activate abilities for a limited amount of time. Wich he confirmed... or not....
The ability part is extremely confusing

Can you clear it up for me Jaxxoon?

TAPETRVE said:

Thumbs down for the dismissal of Quake Wars. It may have been no "true" Quake, but it was very solid nonetheless.

Good game modes but the engine was rough.
And Quake 4? There were even tournaments on it for a while... "TW: What 4? Are you sure you're not talking about 3!?" hehe

[DooMancuBus]

"TW: We are not shutting the door on new consoles or single-player…"


There is a possibility of the Lovecraft horror themed Single Player Quake reboot from 1996. Jen Matthies from MachineGames wants to do Single Player Quake game too. From the recent Metro.co.uk website interview with Tim Willits, he said he's not shutting the door on the Single Player Quake game and he purposely ignored the interviewer's comment regarding Jen Matthies wanting to do Single Player Quake reboot because Tim Willits didn't want to spoil the surprise for the fans or something. Keep your eyes peeled! ;)

[ChickenOrBeef]

riky_rice said:

Each champion having different passive attributes like different movement, hp, armor, air control, strafing, rocket jumping, hitboxes, etc makes the game almost impossible to balance.

Yes, but that hasn't stopped the fighting game genre from being ultra competitive. Obviously you want to avoid a Street Fighter II situation where one character has a much higher skill ceiling than everyone else (Vega). As long as the balancing is good for the most part, I think people will be fine with it.

[TheWizard]

riky_rice said:

Sorry I meant powerups that activate abilities for a limited amount of time. Wich he confirmed... or not....
The ability part is extremely confusing

It really does sound like it's just Quake 3 with characters who have passive abilities and activated abilities.

He said in an another interview that Nyx (the blue haired character) is one of his favorite characters because she can rocket jump higher (that's a passive ability), and we saw her do some sort of dash/teleport sort of thing in the trailer (activated ability).

I don't know 100% for sure but I'm 99.9% sure that every character will inherit from the base Quake 3/Quake Live character. So every character will have the same movement abilities, only some will do it "better" to fit their play-style.

So you could expect, say a character that has CPM-like air control, and another character that just has regular vanilla Q3-like movement and a bit of extra health or something.

The active/passive abilities are attached to your character and you will spawn with them. He's not talking about Quad Damage and Haste, etc. Those will be part of the map.

It is kind of annoying he isn't just straight up explaining it like we're 5 though. I think maybe he's just been so involved with the development that some of it is just so obvious to him like "yeah why the hell wouldn't we have weapon pickups? Duh!", or "wtf, this is quake, of course it's going to have quad damage!" that he just forgets to mention it. XD

[Riccardoman]

Pretty much what I was thinking, which is interesting and refreshing to me. Let's hope they won't make the difference between characters too substantial.

Knowing ID, I'm eager to see what they'll come up with the animations. No more sticks moving around like inanimate objects.. It will be glorious

[TheWizard]

riky_rice said:

Pretty much what I was thinking, which is interesting and refreshing to me. Let's hope they won't make the difference between characters too substantial.

Knowing ID, I'm eager to see what they'll come up with the animations. No more sticks moving around like inanimate objects.. It will be glorious

I wonder if bunny hopping will really look any much different animation wise, I really don't know how you'd go about animating such an unrealistic movement mechanic for a humanoid character. LOL

Anyway. Quake is such a simple game (which is what made it so good). Not to mention all the movement logic in the code is well documented and heavily analysed. I would not be surprised if they built a working prototype within a month.

Quake Champions is all Quake Live and Quake 4 multiplayer should have been. Surprise! Both didn't bring anything new from Quake 3. But none of these people complaining about the abilities want to admit that. Hell, Quake Live was free too!

People need to understand, based on what we've been told that this is going to be Quake with graphics on par with Doom 2016 and a Lovecraftian look with a bit of Sci-Fi. Gameplay wise it's actually bringing something newish to Quake (cough...Team Arena), and not to mention all the modern competitive goodies. Anyone who's played modern e-sports titles knows what I'm talking about.

Also, I keep reading people STILL mentioning on posts that have to do with Champions that they don't want "classes". These are aren't classes! How lazy are people? It's pissing me off that this is becoming such a trend on the internet culture, especially among gamers that no one does their research anymore before they decide to give an opinion. Fuck's sake. I bet in 100 million years humans will have evolved into Zerg, all part of a fuckin hive.