Heretic X (DEAD THREAD)

[Kepehn]

DEADLINE OVER!
I couldn't deleted this thread. (It says that I do not have permission)!
Then why it's give me the option to delete it!?

Anyway, don't post here, I'm unavailable. If the administrators want to delete it, good for me, if not, then whatever. I'm off!

The Download Link will be in \idgames with heavy changes.

Bye!

[HavoX]

Looks nice.

A megawad might be a bit too much for a new-timer though...

[Wereknight]

Basically, kind of Chillax deal. Noh?

[Fonze]

Looks remind me of the master levels, which wasn't really my thing. But I do love Heretic, so I'll give this a shot when I can (don't know when that'll be).

[Walter confetti]

Looks good for me...

[Reisal]

A Heretic slaughtermap series?

[Liberation]

Looks interesting, I myself do find heretic tempting to map for..

[baja blast rd.]

Sorry this was pretty dreadful. I played map01. Heretic is a lot less amenable to slaughter gameplay because the monsters don't hit very hard and have simple attack patterns. The weapons also aren't powerful either. Imagine playing Doom where all setups are 50+ HKs milling around in a large room with the SSG and a bunch of ammo, or 100+ pinkies behind monster block lines. Really tedious.

The cutscene at the beginning rubbed me the wrong way already, not sure if that's skippable but whatever. The biggest problem is the sheer number of monsters that are totally non-threatening. The biggest offenders by far are the golems -- melee-only -- behind the ice door that are completely behind blocking lines! There's just a room full of them, 100 or so probably, where you literally just stand and shoot for five minutes and they can't even reach you to retaliate! I think I went through the whole level taking barely over 100 damage, and even some of that is because I was getting impatient. In a 40:08 playthrough with 576 monsters!

Bright spot is the "This door is locked and will never be opened" message followed by the switch right next to it that opened it. :)

Anyway here's the FDA recorded in GZDoom g2.1.1: http://www.mediafire.com/download/7cvw4mapuxvscdg/hxprophecy01_rdwpa_fda.lmp

Anyway, I think you really have to modify monster properties to make this more interesting. Less HP, by a factor of half for most non-bosses. Greater attack strength for nearly all monsters, maybe double.

[The Ultimate DooMer]

Heretic is a lot less amenable to slaughter gameplay because the monsters don't hit very hard and have simple attack patterns. The weapons also aren't powerful either. Imagine playing Doom where all setups are 50+ HKs milling around in a large room with the SSG and a bunch of ammo, or 100+ pinkies behind monster block lines. Really tedious.

A few tomes would sort out the repetitive bits.

[Kepehn]

I understand that the golems scene at the first map can be tedious.
I can't edit the original monsters decorate, only additional monsters.

I can remove some "monster block lines", modify the type of monsters and like The Ultimate DooMer suggested, I'm gonna increase the Tomes in those massive situations.

Thanks!

[HavoX]

Kepehn said:

I can't edit the original monsters decorate

No, but you can use inheritance.

[Kepehn]

Thanks for you advise HavoX, but right now, my real concern is to know if it is worthy to continue working on this mod.

[SavageCorona]

A Heretic slaughtermap is an interesting prospect but I have my doubts on whether it'll work or not.

[Cacowad]

Played the first two maps and then ended up in the sabreclaw dimension, only to get instantly mercilessly slaughtered by the resident sabreclaws. Is that level even possible? i mean, first you don't have any space to move, second the initial wave seems endless (even with god mode on) without any reliable way to dispose of said sabreclaws efficiently...

Anyway, judging only by those three maps you don't seems to have a very strong grasp of the heretic bestiary, monsters seems to be thrown here and there only to fill space and nothing else. If i were you i would just cut down the numbers on an iwad level until you get an idea on how to make work a slaughter scenario in heretic (since you are aiming to a more story driven approach anyway).
The random monsters blocking lines that seems to plague the first map does not help in that regard.
The cheesy lines upon picking up a new weapon\artifact\everything are pretty bad, and clashes with the setting you give (everyone was turned into monsters and stuff and then you find a vial that say to you "drink me Corvus!" hew.).
I don't really understand why you force the pistol start, it does not make a lot of sense in general and even less when you put it in a story setting where you should be able to carry with you what you have picked up early.

Now that we have those out, i will go out and say that the actual re-imagining is pretty good for it's own merit, and with just a little more work on the pre-existent bits you should have a pretty nice looking set overall (just do me a favor and fill the textures on the initial hall of mirrors where you explain the initial bits of the story on map1, it is super bad).

TL;DR:
Gameplay: bad.
re-imagining: nice.
Atmosphere: very cheesy.

[Kepehn]

Cacowad, the Sabreclaw dimension is one of the 2 secret maps and its insanity is an exception.

That's a tricky map that was made to think before acting, in the first part there's a trick: you must wait until the sabreclaws fill the room, then from the green liquid tunnel you step upon them and you make it to the opening ahead, you'll get to the other side with enough space to contine.

Cacowad said:

If i were you i would just cut down the numbers on an iwad level until you get an idea on how to make work a slaughter scenario in heretic (since you are aiming to a more story driven approach anyway).

I know how to create slaughter maps if I wanted. This is a massive (Insane) thing.
What I can do is to divide the game into 2 ways of playing (difficulty settings) one with regular amount of enemies and the other with the massive thing.

Cacowad said:

The cheesy lines upon picking up a new weapon\artifact\everything are pretty bad, and clashes with the setting you give (everyone was turned into monsters and stuff and then you find a vial that say to you "drink me Corvus!" hew.).

Those "cheesy lines" have nothing to do with the setting, you can have a serious game plot with comic parts.

Cacowad said:

I don't really understand why you force the pistol start, it does not make a lot of sense in general and even less when you put it in a story setting where you should be able to carry with you what you have picked up early.

OK! The majority of the maps don't need pistol start, so I'm planning to remove it.

Cacowad said:

(just do me a favor and fill the textures on the initial hall of mirrors where you explain the initial bits of the story on map1, it is super bad).

Hall of mirrors? I don't know exactly what textures you're talking about, but if it is the invisible sector that only opens when the initial text ends, well that was the way I got to block the player. I could do it with scripts (and fashion cutscenes)
but since I don't know how and I don't have much free time to edit, I found no other way.

[Cacowad]

I'm referring to this:

Anyway, fair enough, good luck on your project then!

[Kepehn]

I don't know what source port is that. This was made and tested only with GZDoom!

[Fonze]

Yeah the statement before that you run over-top of the sabreclaws pretty much states that it's a (G)zDoom map set. Which is fine and all, but the screenies don't look much like zDoom to me and that might be the case with others as well.

I haven't had the chance to play this yet, but I would think that a Heretic slaughtermap would just about need tomes everywhere as there are few glass cannons. Also, mobs would likely need to come from all directions at all times to keep things interesting, but I think what rdwpa said is prolly gonna be your best advice here. I wish you luck on making this thing and look forward to when I get the time to play it.