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DoomPhreak

Glitchy module

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One of the rooms in my map has gotten so glitchy that there are certain objects in the room that I can't select nor link to. I have placed a gray keycard on the floor and now I can't select, delete, nor link to it. One of the doors in that room also can't be selected nor linked to. And if I try to delete the whole room from the map, Snapmap freezes! And I have to Alt-Tab out to Windows Task Manager to abort the program. Has anyone seen this? I'm at a very late stage in my map design so I can't just scratch the whole map. Right now I'm trying to remove as much logic from that room as possible to not worsen the situation. I'm not even going to use that gray keycard, and am hiding it under a crate to prevent pickup, LOL. I'm also going to remove all the demons in that place to avoid any more logic problem. And I'm going to have to come up with an interesting challenge that doesn't involve demons...

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try creating a dummy module (if you can) and move half the logic into the dummy room. Use the dummy room to add layers, and once you finish with a layer, move them over to the real room.

Sometimes if you have too many objects, Snapmap will just glitch like that. I find it's best if you build the logic in a dummy module and move it over, piece by piece.

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VentedPennies said:

try creating a dummy module (if you can) and move half the logic into the dummy room. Use the dummy room to add layers, and once you finish with a layer, move them over to the real room.

Sometimes if you have too many objects, Snapmap will just glitch like that. I find it's best if you build the logic in a dummy module and move it over, piece by piece.

But if the glitch occurs *after* I finish moving the pieces from the dummy room to the real room then it's all for naught. In my case, I suspect the glitch started very late in my map-designing stage. And I do move around pieces a lot since I keep revising them. So I check on everything frequently. If glitches occur very late then there is just very little I can do. I wonder it has anything to do with CTDs and freezes, since I do get them a lot in Snapmap.

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DoomPhreak said:

One of the rooms in my map has gotten so glitchy that there are certain objects in the room that I can't select nor link to. I have placed a gray keycard on the floor and now I can't select, delete, nor link to it. One of the doors in that room also can't be selected nor linked to. And if I try to delete the whole room from the map, Snapmap freezes! And I have to Alt-Tab out to Windows Task Manager to abort the program. Has anyone seen this? I'm at a very late stage in my map design so I can't just scratch the whole map. Right now I'm trying to remove as much logic from that room as possible to not worsen the situation. I'm not even going to use that gray keycard, and am hiding it under a crate to prevent pickup, LOL. I'm also going to remove all the demons in that place to avoid any more logic problem. And I'm going to have to come up with an interesting challenge that doesn't involve demons...


The reason this happens is because you had an action, item, thing, or module connected to the glitched item or thing from another module and deleted the origin module or string attached to your glitched item.

For instance lets say you have a trigger make the key appear but the the trigger is one module and key is in a different module. If you delete the trigger modular it wont delete the key and youll have the problem you are having. same goes for monster, and any other code. This is why integers and numbers are crucial because they cut down on stringing code from module to module.So it still thinks your key is part of the code or module you deleted that rested somewhere else in the map. But it sits in the module you placed it in glitched because thats where it was placed. So if you delete a module or a large string of code that goes from module to module make sure everything related to it is selected or youre going to get this problem.

THIS IS WHY YOU MAKE BACK UPS!!! cant stress that enough. On console since you cant back up once you get a good chunk of editing done save the map under a different name or version number. This way when youre having the problem you're having now you can revert back to an earlier version of your map. I had to rebuild 2 maps 3 times a piece until I figured this out.

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HALFRATS PS4 said:

The reason this happens is because you had an action, item, thing, or module connected to the glitched item or thing from another module and deleted the origin module or string attached to your glitched item.

For instance lets say you have a trigger make the key appear but the the trigger is one module and key is in a different module. If you delete the trigger modular it wont delete the key and youll have the problem you are having. same goes for monster, and any other code. This is why integers and numbers are crucial because they cut down on stringing code from module to module.So it still thinks your key is part of the code or module you deleted that rested somewhere else in the map. But it sits in the module you placed it in glitched because thats where it was placed. So if you delete a module or a large string of code that goes from module to module make sure everything related to it is selected or youre going to get this problem.

THIS IS WHY YOU MAKE BACK UPS!!! cant stress that enough. On console since you cant back up once you get a good chunk of editing done save the map under a different name or version number. This way when youre having the problem you're having now you can revert back to an earlier version of your map. I had to rebuild 2 maps 3 times a piece until I figured this out.


But it is still a mystery why something is glitched in the first place. I've had plenty of "orphaned" objects and never had a problem. But if something is glitched there is just nothing you can do. Are you saying that having orphaned objects increases the possibility of glitches?

Regarding backups, apparently Snapmap a has cloud system that automatically backs up your maps. You reinstall the game and wipe out your saved files, and you will find your maps right where they were. Even if you turn off Steam sync, it still backs up your maps. But it's tough to use backups to deal with glitches because you never know when the glitches occur.

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DoomPhreak said:

But it is still a mystery why something is glitched in the first place. I've had plenty of "orphaned" objects and never had a problem. But if something is glitched there is just nothing you can do. Are you saying that having orphaned objects increases the possibility of glitches?

Regarding backups, apparently Snapmap a has cloud system that automatically backs up your maps. You reinstall the game and wipe out your saved files, and you will find your maps right where they were. Even if you turn off Steam sync, it still backs up your maps. But it's tough to use backups to deal with glitches because you never know when the glitches occur.


Once your finished with the map and its working the way you want it then publish it and that file then becomes your final version of the map. You can still go in and edit it but Im telling you on the way to getting to that point make multiple save with different names at different stages of your design process. Im not talking backup in general Im talking about saving your map as different name version after dumping abunch of code into it so if something fucks up you can loadup an older version and not have to start from scratch to eleimnate glitches.

For instance this is how I back up. Lets say the level is called map
Map 1.0 - plot down all the rooms. Save it as Map 2.0
Map 2.0 - Add all my pick ups (keys,cores) and checkpoints. Save it as Map 3.0
Map 3.0 - Add monsters and waves. Save it as Map 4.0
Map 4.0 - Add lights, noises, atmosphere Save as Map 5.0

If I have a problem I just revert back to an earlier version

Once Im satisfied with the map I publish it. After play testing with other players and everything is good I delete all the older versions.


The glitch is not a mystery I just informed you why it happens. Test it, make two separate rooms and have in one module a trigger to turn a monster on. Then drag that monster with the activation string attached into the second room. Then delete the first room with the initial trigger for that monster and then watch as that monster becomes inactive and unable to edit.

And no having orphaned objects wont glitch your map more, they themselves are a glitch.

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My point is you never know when the glitches occur. Either you back up once every 15 minutes and end up with hundreds of backups, or you backup less frequently and risk having many HOURS of work lost once a glitch occurs. And that is if you even know a glitch exists at all. If you don't spot the glitch until you already made 4 or 5 backups then what do you do? You revert to your data from 4 or 5 backups ago and lose untold amount of work?? That's why frequent backups don't really work here. Backups are for preventing catastrophic loss of data, and Snapmap's built-in cloud backup already suffices in that regard. For backups to deal with problems that can pop up anytime, you need a much more complex backup system that we don't get here.

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"My point is you never know when the glitches occur."

Thats why you back up like I said before you get started on another major code dump. Im telling you 6 levels completed with two of them being completely rebuilt 3 times a piece and 1 month later this is the best way to avoid having problems in your map.

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HALFRATS is giving you good advice. After any major session, just save it as something else. Are you that hard up for HD save that you can't backup hours of work?

An auto save-as feature would be nice for every 15 minutes. Then, have it auto delete files that are X old. Ahh, I can dream.

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HALFRATS PS4 said:

"My point is you never know when the glitches occur."

Thats why you back up like I said before you get started on another major code dump. Im telling you 6 levels completed with two of them being completely rebuilt 3 times a piece and 1 month later this is the best way to avoid having problems in your map. You asked and Im telling you. You have a better idea? Id love to hear it.

VentedPennies said:

HALFRATS is giving you good advice. After any major session, just save it as something else. Are you that hard up for HD save that you can't backup hours of work?

An auto save-as feature would be nice for every 15 minutes. Then, have it auto delete files that are X old. Ahh, I can dream.


I *have* been doing multiple backups, but my point is it doesn't solve this particular problem. The key, as I said, is finding when glitches occur the moment they occur. Now that you bring out fighting words then don't mind me doing the same. Are you two so obtuse to not realize that you simple can't catch these glitches when they happen? If you have a magical way to spot glitches when they happen then tell me. The REALITY is that when a glitch happens, you may not find it until a few hours, or days, or weeks later, then when do you do? You revert your map to several-days- or weeks-old backup? Even a few-hours-old or even one-hour-old backup is painful to have to restore. Unless you backup every 15 minutes, which would never be practical. The point is there is NO GOOD SOLUTION here, even with multiple backups which I have done (acknowledging your point). Now it's time for you two to acknowledge mine.

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DUH I know you cant catch them. But I just told you what causes them , so in a way you can catch them by not doing improper coding. And acknowledge what exactly? That this glitch happens and the only solution is to revert back to an earlier version of your map?

That's is exactly what you do until you lean the editor well enough to not let these glitches happen. Its a learning curve. Welcome to level editing 101. If level editing was easy everyone would do it and 95% of the levels out there wouldn't suck.

Im not saving every 15 minutes and with what Ive learnt over the past month building the 6 maps Ive published I save less often now. But yes I would have up to 8-10 version of one map and once it was finalized I would delete them or delete really old versions during the process that I knew I would never have to revert back to knowing the versions after it were bug free as well.

Call me obtuse all you want, I was smart enough to back up. And I'm smart enough to know when someone is giving me good advice whether I like the outcome or not.

You're welcome brat ;)

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Why the fuck did this thread turn into a fight? The information within is awesome.

Also HALFRATS PS4, while I am a fan of your levels and respect the effort you put into sharing your knowledge DoomPhreak makes a valid point.

Sure there is a learning curve to any level editing tool/process but to put bugs that completely corrupt maps such as this into that category is downright silly.

DoomPhreak has a very real point where it may not be immediately appearant when a glitch occurs. Not knowing that means you could put a lot of work into your map, -while saving different versions-, before finding out a few versions back the actual glitch got introduced. This means you -cannot- safely work around this bug.

Does that mean you should not save versions? Of course it doesn't. However thats not the argument DoomPhreak is making. Lets just hope this bug is fixed with the next snapmap update and hope it comes soon.

Its great to know what cause this behavior for now. Its one of my big fears to have my map corrupted especially since ive been refactoring it so much as i learn new things or run into the damn resource constraints.

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He makes a valid point but he is hung up on it. There is no other way around it. Its either revert back to an earlier version of your map or start from scratch.

Im done making campaign levels until the Hellscape patch comes out. All Im going to do is go back into my old levels and clean them up and tune up their flow and build singular/competitive maps. What sucks but is also great at the same time is they are adding things like the weapon wheel and more single player elements. But the downside is now I have to go back to all my old maps and add it in. I really hope the new content gets most of the inner workings like this out of the way and future content is mostly cosmetic.

As for the glitching that occurs during level editing if there was away for the program to tell you a glitch occurred then they wouldn't be there in the first place. If the software knew that placed items were becoming inactive because you deleted their source module then the software would be programmed to delete the item as well. Im actually surprised how not glitchy it is. Especially when you consider Bethesdas track record for glitches. But this is the price to pay when learning software that is brand new. You get to eat all the shit until its patched.

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HALFRATS PS4 said:

DUH I know you cant catch them. But I just told you what causes them

So you know for sure that is the only cause? Are you the programmers of Doom?? Has it occurred to you that there may be other causes?? Even the programmers themselves probably don't know enough to fix this bug at the moment and here you are dispensing your infinite wisdom. I HAVE JUST had another object glitched out without having done any of the action you described. So The point REMAINS that NOBODY KNOWS when glitches occur.

But the hilarious thing is that you get so worked over this, with the other guy calling me "hard up" and now you calling me "brat". You have already demonstrated you are prone to engage in infantile exchanges like this one, so don't do any more to further confirm it, will you. More to the point, people like you need to realize in a discussion there is something called give and take. The discussion can only go forward by offering opposing viewpoints, one after another, to one another. Stances can be firm, or soft, depending on the degree of conviction. No one is "hard up" or being a "brat" when offering opposing viewpoints. As the other poster said, we had a good discussion going and the two of you obviously thin-skinned individuals ruined it by calling names. Good job.

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"hard up" means "short of" X. I'm sorry if this wasn't clear. As in, are you in such short supply of HD space that you can't save frequently?

I guess what wasn't clear is that glitches happen and, like you've said, can't always be tracked. We provided 2 suggestions to help prevent such glitches, building in outside modules by layers and not deleting modules with code in them. These have worked for us to avoid such a glitch.

Are there more glitches? Sure. Can we help you with glitches we don't know about? I don't see how.

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Once I realized this was what was causing the problem in my second level the glitch never appeared in my 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th level.

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xTWx PREDATOR X said:

Blimey giving advice and assistance was certainly not appreciated in this thread was it?!!

And neither is STINKING UP the discussion with name-calling like he did before the discussion even reached any fruitful conclusion after a promising start. Appreciation is earned when a discussion is CARRIED THROUGH TO THE END positively. Like the other poster said, this entity that you're defending is unable to recognize the good points other made. The point remains that (a) frequent backups don't help here, and that (b) not all causes of the glitch are known. And both are MY points that have yet been addressed. And if any one of you would actually address them instead of dragging up any more side argument then I would, what's the word, truly APPRECIATE it.

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Literally just told you why you have objects you can't access or edit and you say that it wasn't addressed. Yet I told you EXACTLY why the glitch happens. And yes backing up is vital. it's vital in any editing or developing software since.... Forever. And will continue to be glitch or no glitch.

I'm assuming you spent a lot of time on this map and now it's fucked and you're throwing a little hissy fit because you don't like the answer to your problem. But until they fix this glitch I recommend following the advice given. You're looking for an easy fix or the golden answer. Ain't gonna happen. Don't delete string from one modular to the next unless you delete everything within that string and BACKUP.

You literally got advice on your exact problem yet said you didn't. It's clear you're an asshole. Sorry your mapped got fucked I'll be sure not to help you with further inquiries.

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HALFRATS PS4 said:

Literally just told you why you have objects you can't access or edit and you say that it wasn't addressed. Yet I told you EXACTLY why the glitch happens. And yes backing up is vital. it's vital in any editing or developing software since.... Forever. And will continue to be glitch or no glitch.

I'm assuming you spent a lot of time on this map and now it's fucked and you're throwing a little hissy fit because you don't like the answer to your problem. But until they fix this glitch I recommend following the advice given. You're looking for an easy fix or the golden answer. Ain't gonna happen. Don't delete string from one modular to the next unless you delete everything within that string and BACKUP.

You literally got advice on your exact problem yet said you didn't. It's clear you're an asshole. Sorry your mapped got fucked I'll be sure not to help you with further inquiries.


You are reiterating your old arguments that I have already responded to. You told me ONE WAY of how that glitch happens. Are you sure that is the ONLY way? Are you one of Doom's programmers? How many times have we seen bugs that can be triggered by tons of ways?? If you can't predict how bugs occur, you can't back up successfully, not with simple backups like this. See how I'm repeating myself just because you won't or CAN'T address my arguments and keep finding lame ass ways to brush it off? Simply reiterating your old arguments doesn't constitute "addressing" the issue, buddy. Did I say my map was phucked, LOL? I just published it and posted a new thread about it. I already said in my *first post* that I worked it around by covering the glitched object with a crate. Or is that your way of zinging one on me when you can't engage in a discussion successfully, LOL? Yeah, that's right, keep up with the name-calling buddy; that's expected of you. What do you expect from someone who makes childish vagina jokes, hahaha... You still think this is about my not accepting your argument? This is about your PISS-POOR ARGUMENTATIVE SKILL AND BAD ATTITUDE.

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It is a simple scientifical fact that those who capitalize random words and use internet laughing acronyms in giant paragraphs are in fact deadly night creatures and should be avoided.

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Jaxxoon R said:

It is a simple scientifical fact that those who capitalize random words and use internet laughing acronyms in giant paragraphs are in fact deadly night creatures and should be avoided.


In any given thread there is usually the protagonist (the one who started the discussion) and the antagonist (the one giving opposing views), and then there are always these SIDELINE CHEERLEADERS who don't, or maybe can't, offer any views to the discussion at hand and, instead, "cheer" for one side or the other with dumb non-sequiturs or similarly forgettable comments. And guess which category you belong to?

If you people want to embarrass me so badly, then just do what I've been imploring you to do: actually ADDRESS the last few points I made instead of making all these dumb, would-be comebacks that waste everybody's time.

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Your writing style would be embarrassing for a 13 year old, and your weird belief that you're some kind of character in a thread-based narrative where everyone that disagrees is some kind of badguy is both bafflingly funny and slightly creepy.

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Jaxxoon R said:

Your writing style would be embarrassing for a 13 year old, and your weird belief that you're some kind of character in a thread-based narrative where everyone that disagrees is some kind of badguy is both bafflingly funny and slightly creepy.

Didn't I say I was imploring you people to address my yet unaddressed arguments? The ones who are truly made uncomfortable by disagreements are the lot of you who have YET to address my arguments. Again, if you people want to sass me so badly, ADDRESS the damn arguments and actually prove them invalid to the point that I'm unable to address your arguments back! That's how grown-ups do it. Funny you call me immature, when you were the one with that feeble cheerleading attempt that fizzled so badly.

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@DoomPhreak

Some very useful information was provided in this thread which benefits me and I'm certain, to some extend, also benefits you. Its not the all in one solution to your original question but its better then nothing don't you agree?

This final situation with two "camps" where both parties stubbornly refuse to understand each others position is nothing but silly and a big waste of energy and time.

Its no longer about common sense, people are being stubborn out of principle by now, trying to win an "argument" that did not really exist in the first place (this holds true for you as well).

I suggest you hop out of this discussion altogether and go do something fun instead, like polish your latest map based on the feedback you received from people who enjoyed it or something to that extend. ;)

Red

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In order to "understand each other's position" as you put it, they need to actually HAVE a position for me to understand. As I already said, they refuse to address my last points, so what is it for me to understand? Instead, they resort to one failed would-be comeback after another. What sort of "position" do you think they can have by calling me "brat", "asshole", and "13-year-old"? Isn't it obvious? They CHECKED OUT this discussion long ago, obviously because they CAN'T come up with anything to counter my arguments. So they resort predictably to name-calling. And somehow I'm the 13- year-old here? Moi?? So I implore these characters one last time: THE BALL IN ON YOUR COURT. Address my damn arguments, THEN you'll have a position.

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