What do you want to see in the next Doom?

[DoomzRules]

Bigger demons. I want to fight a Titan in the next Doom. :3 Oh and fleshier Hell sections. Hell in the new Doom FEELS like Hell. It's ancient, mysterious, and it makes you go "WOAH This has been here forever! It's... Hell. It's just.... I can't even comprehend how ancient this is." It's mystical. But I feel it's lacking that fleshy component that the original Doom had. (Anyone else remember E3M1, and pressing that fleshy eye switch?) Or the intestinal tracts you walked on that were the floor of Hell? Yeah, Hell in the new Doom is pretty tame.

It's still Hell, it's just not EXTREME Hell. =P We need more EXTREME Hell. But maybe much like how there's a transition from UAC base to Corrupted UAC base to Hell...

Maybe a same thing should be applied to Hell too? Ancient Hell to Fleshy Hell to Flesh and Metal Hell. =3

Just saying; it'd be pretty cool and different IMHO. I mean wouldn't it be cool if Hell had a transition phase too like the UAC does?

[snapshot]

[Almonds]

He's merely stating his opinion, though

although in a hardly readable way, an opinion nonetheless.

[DoomzRules]

Almonds said:

He's merely stating his opinion, though

although in a hardly readable way, an opinion nonetheless.

I tried to make it readable. Hence why I broke it up into lines. Lines is better than a wall of text IMHO.

[Jaxxoon R]

You broke it up into too many lines. Not that avoiding line breaks would've helped, it's already written in an unfocused, almost stream-of-consciousness manner that is really hard to follow.

[Almonds]

take it from me, DoomzRules: consequent lines of text that form a paragraph make for a pretty confusing, dull read. You'd be a million times better off writing your text like you normally would using average-length paragraphs than making one-off lines of text one after another.

I'm just bringing it up because I've seen you do precisely that in most posts you make, and people generally tend to look past posts that look like that and don't even bother reading what's in them most of the time.

[DoomzRules]

Almonds said:

take it from me, DoomzRules: consequent lines of text that form a paragraph make for a pretty confusing, dull read. You'd be a million times better off writing your text like you normally would using average-length paragraphs than making one-off lines of text one after another.

I'm just bringing it up because I've seen you do precisely that in most posts you make, and people generally tend to look past posts that look like that and don't even bother reading what's in them most of the time.

Yah. I guess. It's a bad habit of mine. I think that breaking it up into lines makes it easier to read, but maybe it doesn't? IDK to be honest. I just don't like to make walls of text. Anyway, thanks for the advice! =D

@Jaxxoon R

Yah that's true. My point in a nutshell is... I wish we could fight ginormous demons (i.e Titans) and we could see transition phases in Hell from ancient bony Hell to fleshy Hell to flesh and metal Hell. =) Sort of like how the UAC transitions from normal base to bloody base to corrupted base.

[massivefanofdoom]

DoomzRules said:

Bigger demons. I want to fight a Titan in the next Doom. :3 Oh and fleshier Hell sections. Hell in the new Doom FEELS like Hell. It's ancient, mysterious, and it makes you go "WOAH This has been here forever! It's... Hell. It's just.... I can't even comprehend how ancient this is." It's mystical. But I feel it's lacking that fleshy component that the original Doom had. (Anyone else remember E3M1, and pressing that fleshy eye switch?) Or the intestinal tracts you walked on that were the floor of Hell? Yeah, Hell in the new Doom is pretty tame.

It's still Hell, it's just not EXTREME Hell. =P We need more EXTREME Hell. But maybe much like how there's a transition from UAC base to Corrupted UAC base to Hell...

Maybe a same thing should be applied to Hell too? Ancient Hell to Fleshy Hell to Flesh and Metal Hell. =3

Just saying; it'd be pretty cool and different IMHO. I mean wouldn't it be cool if Hell had a transition phase too like the UAC does?

Agreed on it feeling so ancient, the last arena in kadingir with the red mist and the old world architecture and stone slabs, i was so impressed!!

There is a concept art of the last level, one of the arenas, where it is mostly the same but has a bit more fire and magma and blood going on, plus 2 hung barons of hell .... so awesome. Sometimes concept art ends up being worse once ingame.

EDIT: Here it is, scroll down a bit

Also the first concept art there is the 'main room' in titan, ended up being quite different at release too.

https://www.doomworld.com/vb/doom-2016-general/87738-check-out-this-concept-art/

[TheWizard]

Another thing I want to see is more rune challenges. And make them harder and more interesting. I'd also like to to be able to bring my suit upgrades with me to the next game. I believe Mass Effect did this.

[dsm]

shotfan said:

First, thanks for thinking so deeply about a response. That is actually a compliment to me :)

You're welcome - I always think carefully about other people's opinions. Sometimes a little too much ;)

Not really. Actually, as I am writing this, I am also mulling over how to overhaul Doom's 4 weapons and their mods for a next game (like giving the scopes to their respective weapons by default and making new mods instead), including MP weapons and flamethrower with grenade launcher. But knowing me, I will probably just keep it inside the bowels of my computer, because a modder I am not :)

Ah well, it seems to me that we're more on the same page than we think and that we're just incapable of expressing ourselves in a way that's easily comprehensible to one another.

I do not want to have multiple variations of the base weapons of Doom (in the same game), that is all.
So no multiple models of the Pistol, multiple Shotguns, multiple Rocket Launcher and so on (that would actually go well along with my DOOMED overhaul project :) ). There might be replacements for Doom 4's weapons, like that Govt-brand pistol you mentioned, with slightly altered stats. But no going beyond that - this is what I mean by keeping it true to Doom's formula.

Fully in agreement. I have no use for three combat shotguns that do the same thing.

Now, I must admit I have no idea what are you talking about. What are those weapon ranks?

Now I don't know if you're a PC user or a console user, but as a PC user, I'm in the habit of using the number keys to select weapons with (that is, until I become familiar enough with each weapon that I can just use the mouse wheel to cycle through them).

My example stated that in Doom 3, the chaingun was selected by pressing the '5' key, whereas in Doom'16 it is further up the numerical scale and is selected with the '8' key.
I was simply trying to highlight the difference between where each game placed the same weapon in its respective arsenals, while that same weapon (the chaingun) basically served the same role in both games.

Did that clear it up?

Why a flamethrower? It is a whole different beast than Plasmagun ('Plasma Rifle' sounds much better, but is incorrect - why you would need rifling for such a weapon?). Plasmagun is essentially a high-powered automatic rifle. Flamethrower, however, is a specialist close range weapon. It can cover more area than Plasmagun and start fires, further reinforcing its area-denial capability. Last but not least, it burns demons. You may think that plasma is even worse, but because of its extremely high temperature the victim may actually die very quickly, before it feels any significant pain. But the flamethrower would cover demons in ignited liquid that causes unspeakable pain (even to them), paralyzes, and makes them either suffocate (the more fortunate option) or die from numerous 4th degree burns. Much more thoroughly brutal than flash-burning with plasma (probably one of the worst ways to kill). I think such a weapon would fit nicely in a game about battling demons (frying people is too much to me, but roasting these demon scum serves them well, as a payback for invading Earth). Even a plasmathrower (present in some Brutal Doom versions) would not make such an effect, again because of the plasma's temperature. So there you have it why I would like to get flamethrower in Doom.
(also, the Doom 4's plasma gun is a letdown, since it does not feature flash-burning or something like it - it looks like you are hurling marbles at demons... in any case, I am happy that shotguns got a worthy treatment this time!)

I'm regretting asking that question, because I kinda knew the answer already (which you explained very well thank you :) ) and I'm not sure I can properly explain my misgivings about having a flamethrower in a Doom game. In a Wolfenstein game? Absolutely! But it feels... I dunno, "wrong" in a Doom game. Sorta the same reason I don't like the idea of a Lightning gun in the arsenal because it's kinda a hitscan short-range plasma gun and feels too similar in a way (yes, I know it's in Doom'16's multiplayer, no I wasn't fond of it).

I recognize that the Doom arsenal contains low-tech weapons like a chainsaw and an old break-barrel shotgun, so the whole low-tech vs. high tech argument isn't valid either, so I guess I'm just going to have to leave the argument and maybe come back if I figure out why exactly I have those misgivings.

The whole "plasma rifle" thing? The original Doom manual called it a "plasma rifle", so I've been a little fanatical about calling the Doom Plasma Gun that to differentiate it from the Q3A one, but there's really not much point in calling it that otherwise, as you pointed out very well.

-----

EDIT: Oh yes, I thought of one more little thing that I would like to see. More secrets that are accessed through manipulating switches, consoles and levers. Doom'16 had a lot of secrets that required careful exploration and puzzle-solving skills to find and that is certainly cool, but it annoys me a bit that the majority of them were just platforms that were hidden a little off the beaten path and accessed simply through jumping and mantling.

I've never been a fan of secrets that are just some platform off the beaten path. I prefer actually locked doors or manholes (or the old movable wall secret) that grants access to an otherwise hidden or inaccessible room.

There's just something satisfying about finding a hard-to-spot switch, flipping it and watching a locked door open up into an area you couldn't access before.

[shotfan]

TheWizard said:

Another thing I want to see is more rune challenges. And make them harder and more interesting. I'd also like to to be able to bring my suit upgrades with me to the next game. I believe Mass Effect did this.

As far as I know, ME2 allowed to port face and give you a few levels more if you imported a character from the first game. There are no armour mods present in ME2.

dsm said:

Now I don't know if you're a PC user or a console user, but as a PC user, I'm in the habit of using the number keys to select weapons with (that is, until I become familiar enough with each weapon that I can just use the mouse wheel to cycle through them).

My example stated that in Doom 3, the chaingun was selected by pressing the '5' key, whereas in Doom'16 it is further up the numerical scale and is selected with the '8' key.
I was simply trying to highlight the difference between where each game placed the same weapon in its respective arsenals, while that same weapon (the chaingun) basically served the same role in both games.

Did that clear it up?

Ah, you mean the weapon selection order. I would not really make it too important, because you can assign you own keybinds for weapon selection anyway.
(I am a PC player)

I'm regretting asking that question, because I kinda knew the answer already (which you explained very well thank you :) ) and I'm not sure I can properly explain my misgivings about having a flamethrower in a Doom game. In a Wolfenstein game? Absolutely! But it feels... I dunno, "wrong" in a Doom game. Sorta the same reason I don't like the idea of a Lightning gun in the arsenal because it's kinda a hitscan short-range plasma gun and feels too similar in a way (yes, I know it's in Doom'16's multiplayer, no I wasn't fond of it).

Well, I do not think that a flamethrower would be "wrong" for me in Doom, as I explained previously. Nor the lightning gun - I have a pleasure to use it in Zion mod and I really like it, but I agree it is rather hard to balance such a weapon (realistically, it should stunlock everything - and even without that, it is a practially top-tier weapon in Quake 1, 3, and 4 for a reason).

[DoomzRules]

massivefanofdoom said:

Agreed on it feeling so ancient, the last arena in kadingir with the red mist and the old world architecture and stone slabs, i was so impressed!!

There is a concept art of the last level, one of the arenas, where it is mostly the same but has a bit more fire and magma and blood going on, plus 2 hung barons of hell .... so awesome. Sometimes concept art ends up being worse once ingame.

EDIT: Here it is, scroll down a bit

Also the first concept art there is the 'main room' in titan, ended up being quite different at release too.

https://www.doomworld.com/vb/doom-2016-general/87738-check-out-this-concept-art/

HOLY SHIT THAT CONCEPT ART LOOKS AWESOME! Seriously why aren't these areas in the final game? Just asking. I mean it looks badass as fuck and also pretty creepy as well. I'm getting strong Doom 64 vibes from those concept arts.

Also while I love the Plasma Rifle to death, I wish we could have seen a more bulkier, industrial looking one reminiscent of the Classic Plasma Rifle.

BTW The new Doom's shotgun is perfect. In centered weapons mode it looks eeriely like the Classic Doom shotgun, all it needs is for the top part to be black and the pump to be wooden. :P

[snapshot]

Uh, They are in the Final game, well, Sorta .

[Jaxxoon R]

I wonder if it'd be possible to make the melee system more involved without bogging down the elegance of the game's combat. They've already got a sort of Zandatsu thing going on with the Glory Kills, so what if there was a way to grapple with the monsters in realtime? It seems that, despite idtech 6's visual advancements, the physics are pretty run-of-the-mill. So for the next version to not only rectify this, but to also showcase it extensively in a flagship title could by pretty interesting. I can imagine what could ideally come from a system like that. Ripping off a baron's arm and hurling it at a group of possessed, or catching an imp in the air and slamming it into the ground. That'd be pretty rad.

[massivefanofdoom]

DoomzRules said:

HOLY SHIT THAT CONCEPT ART LOOKS AWESOME! Seriously why aren't these areas in the final game? Just asking. I mean it looks badass as fuck and also pretty creepy as well. I'm getting strong Doom 64 vibes from those concept arts.

Also while I love the Plasma Rifle to death, I wish we could have seen a more bulkier, industrial looking one reminiscent of the Classic Plasma Rifle.

BTW The new Doom's shotgun is perfect. In centered weapons mode it looks eeriely like the Classic Doom shotgun, all it needs is for the top part to be black and the pump to be wooden. :P

They are in the final game, they are different. The one with the chained barons, as you can see in the middle of the picture, is one of the final arenas. The other one is from the blue key room in titan, because it was captioned by the devs themselves as turning out different in the final game, and mainly the central bloodfalls becoming just a slightly shallow pit with barrels. And where there is a powerup in yellow, you now get a green armor and leads to the yellow key. The colors are also a bit different, but its that room. There is also concept for a room in the necropolis with the red mist and pillars, that is identical to the end game product.

[snapshot]

Can he still read your reply even after he's banned ?

[massivefanofdoom]

DMGUYDZ64 said:

Can he still read your reply even after he's banned ?

XD

[Gunther Cucs]

I think it would be cool to be able to spectate multiplayer games, so I can git gud.