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Vegeta

Hexen level editor

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DCK 3.62 umm, i dont have anything else but dck (lvl editingwise)

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The best Hexen level editor is... Whichever you choose to edit with, really.

No I mean it, presuming you have one of the editors that supports Hexen (For inserting THINGS after your architecture is done), you can edit with one that doesn't.

It's as easy as creating a new WAD with just the patches, flats and the PNAMES and TEXTURE1 lumps and editing. When your level is finished, use ZWADCONV.EXE (Link available from DW's utilities section) and the WAD is converted into Hexen format (Which ZDoom uses). Now just insert the things in the editor that supports Hexen (DeePSea, Wadauthor and the latest WinDEU do AFAIK), and you're ready to go.

Why the bother though?

Well, people being people, we all have our own preferences, whether they make sense or not. After all, opinion is just a view based on purely arbitrary reasoning and so it doesn't have to make sense at all. Therefore, you may (As an example) only like to use WadEd (As I do) and wish to edit Hexen levels (As I do). So, what say you can't make levels in your FAVOURITE editor, instead of a strange one, huh?

Nothing stopping you if you know how, the only problem is in testing your level mid architecture-building. No problem here. Make sure you also copy Hexen's PLAYPAL and COLORMAP entries into the WAD you are using, and use it as a 'resource' wad for your level, stick a player 1 start in and test it in a source port. The level will look fine, but gun, status bar (Etc.) GFX will be ruined, colour-wise.

No biggie, it won't stay this way.

Very useful for people who can only really stand, for example, WA for things editing, and prefer another drawing method whilst still wanting to make a level of a half-decent size.

So, I'm ranting now. But that answered more than your question, it also answered how the hell one can make Hexen levels with an editor that doesn't support them.

Trickery? Yes. But using multiple tools is fine -- who the hell in their right mind will throw out all their kitchen cutlery in favour of a simple swiss army knife, Jack? ;)

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Jayextee said:

The best Hexen level editor is... Whichever you choose to edit with, really.

THAT was the question, not what you twisted it into later. It is whatever one choses to edit with. Nothing more. You should have left it at that. If one gets into HEXEN style editing, it's a whole different ballgame and what you said after that is not true.

No I mean it, presuming you have one of the editors that supports Hexen (For inserting THINGS after your architecture is done), you can edit with one that doesn't.

Pure BULL. Shows how LITTLE you have done this or else you wouldn't say this.

It's as easy as creating a new WAD with just the patches, flats and the PNAMES and TEXTURE1 lumps and editing. When your level is finished, use ZWADCONV.EXE and the WAD is converted into Hexen format (Which ZDoom uses).

You wish. All that does is make a level exactly like regular DOOM, except a different format. It's like taking a DOLLAR and converting it to a EURO (or whatever). Nothing new has been added, nothing has changed - except the color of the money. So why bother is right on the money. Don't bother doing this as a way to make ZDOOM/HEXEN levels, one won't learn the new stuff at all. Waste of time.

Well, people being people, we all have our own preferences, whether they make sense or not.

Well, that's a convenient way to argue. Even it doesn't make sense, it makes sense? Yeah right. You can have "preferences", but if someone shows you how you are wasting your time with same preferences, then you are just being STUBBORN and ARGUMENTATIVE - nothing else.

After all, opinion is just a view based on purely arbitrary reasoning and so it doesn't have to make sense at all.

That is the TYPICAL nonsense argument given over and over and over. If THAT IS TRUE, then of course I'M 100% RIGHT, since you just said OPINION is the sole guide here. Ridiculous. You just don't want to stick to objective analysis. Opinion, the saviour that let's anyone make any silly statement they like and then sneak it in as some kind of objective guidance. LOL

Therefore, you may (As an example) only like to use WadEd (As I do) and wish to edit Hexen levels (As I do). So, what say you can't make levels in your FAVOURITE editor, instead of a strange one, huh?

Because YOU CAN'T. All you've demonstrated is that you have never made pure ZDOOM/HEXEN levels using all the new features. Not only that, WADED is a ridiculous example because it is so size limited it's a joke. Plus the dumbest file saving system there is (and it crashes). Yep, good example:))

So, I'm ranting now. But that answered more than your question, it also answered how the hell one can make Hexen levels with an editor that doesn't support them.

You are ranting and what you say is totally and absolutely NOT TRUE. I'd LOVE to see how you would use WADED to put the new ZDOOM features in. LOL.

Trickery? Yes. But using multiple tools is fine -- who the hell in their right mind will throw out all their kitchen cutlery in favour of a simple swiss army knife, Jack? ;)

You have a knack for twisting the truth using false analogies. It's false reasoning and shows lack of insight. Easy counter-example: DeePsea is a collection of fine cultery replacing all the cheap knifes you've collected over the years.

I don't agree with your prior "opinion" and I don't agree with this one for pretty obvious reasons. It helps to DO what you claim can be done. For example, how exactly would you edit XTHEATER in WADED? (Hell, let's pretend it's in DOOM format.)

Like before, you don't really understand or use the very things you are preaching about.

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Whoa, deep, calm down. You really didnt have to rip into him like that, honestly. Much of what he said is quite true.

Now to answer the thread question, ZETH does Hexen maps, and its also free.

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SlayeR said:

Whoa, deep, calm down. You really didnt have to rip into him like that, honestly. Much of what he said is quite true.

MOST of what he said is NOT true. A pure fake invention out the top of his mind. A pretense that this actually works. Not nice and not very helpful to anyone. He's never ever made complete ZDOOM/HEXEN levels (using ALL the things you can do) this way. As I said, all that makes are DOOM levels - NOT ZDOOM/HEXEN levels. Converting the currency is not adding anything new.

To make an ARGUMENT, you'd have to show how what I wrote (discrediting those statements) is not true. IOW, it's not good enough to just say "blah blah". Hell - a 2 year old can do that.

So how exactly can one use WADED to make ZDOOM/HEXEN levels with scripting, slopes, etc using ZWADCONV? LOL

Now to answer the thread question, ZETH does Hexen maps, and its also free.

That wasn't exactly the question. The question was What is the best Hexen level editor?

The answer is whatever one suits him best. He should TRY out real HEXEN enabled editors (NOT DOOM only editors). Those are: DeePsea, WA (both Windows/XP), DCK (can't run in Win9x/XP) or -maybe- ZETH (DOS).

However, ZETH is one of the WORST choices. Mostly diehard DEU/DETH fans. Current version crashes about as often as you take a breath. Let's be HONEST for gods sake.

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Actually you can use any editor to edit Hexen levels. but you NEED a editor that support hexen editing to add the features of hexen.

Personally I rather just use Heth or Zeth at once. But that's since I use Deth anyway. :p

But if you wanna use Doomed or WadEd or whatever, you can. But you won't be able to add any of the specific Hexen features until you've finished building the actual map. So the way would be.

1. any ed of your choice.
2. Hexen supporting ed to add features.

Not very fun way to do it imo. But I've experienced people doing it more than once.

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kristus said:

Actually you can use any editor to edit Hexen levels. but you NEED a editor that support hexen editing to add the features of hexen.

I'd like to clarifing this topic for those who have never edited ZDOOM/HEXEN.

As was correctly explained earlier:

You can use a DOOM only editor to make a level and then convert it to HEXEN. This converted level can't be edited by the original DOOM editor, for that you need a HEXEN capable editor.

But if you wanna use Doomed or WadEd or whatever, you can. But you won't be able to add any of the specific Hexen features until you've finished building the actual map. So the way would be.

1. any ed of your choice.
2. Hexen supporting ed to add features.

The correct complete number of steps are:

1. Any ed of your choice to make a level.
2. Convert the level to HEXEN using ZWADCONV (as described before)
3. Use any editor that supports ZDOOM/HEXEN to add features.

Note that you can't go back and use the editor in step 1 any longer after step 2.

That being the case, why BOTHER? Everyone knows how many times it takes to go back an forth. It's way faster and more efficient to just learn a HEXEN capable editor, assuming you are interested in using HEXEN features.

If not interested in the new features, don't bother with those steps, since ZDOOM plays regular DOOM/BOOM levels too.

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DCK 3.62 is good for that. However, it only works in DOS, which isn't a problem for me anyway. It's shareware and it does have some limits, but they are a lot higher than in DeepSea. I did want to buy the registered version, but Ben Morris seems to have fallen off the planet, and all of his registered copies with him. Oh well... Still, I'm content with what I have.

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Ben Morris seems to have fallen off the planet

Lol, he works at Valve now. I thought everyone knew that, but I guess not :)

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I knew about Valve, but even when looking on their site, I couldn't find his email address.

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NiGHTMARE said:

Lol, he works at Valve now. I thought everyone knew that, but I guess not :)

I don't think he does any longer for some time. IIRC, original purpose was for his editor, then Valve redid it extensively. He's from Canada (Vancouver, BC I think). Not sure how the long term work visa thing works. That was many years ago.

Valve used to be a few miles from me (Woodinville). They are still relatively close, but moved a few more miles to Kirkland - a town right next the Redmond where MS is located.

http://www.valvesoftware.com/people.htm

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I'm sure I remember recently hearing that he was working on a brand new, completely from scratch editor for one of Valve's secret projects. I could be mistaken though.

I'm almost 100% sure he did extensive modifications to Worldcraft for Team Fortress 2.

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As I mentioned before there's HETH. ZETH doesn't have specific support for Hexen, does it?

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Hmmm, it seems ZETH on its own doesn't have Hexen support, but I'm sure if you download HETH to get the Hexen.cfg file, ZETH will edit Hexen just fine.

Oh, and Deep, ZETH DOES save levels in Hexen format. In fact, it is impossible to make vanilla doom/2 levels with ZETH. And I'd be less aggressive if i were you, or you'll make lots of enemies real fast.

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SlayeR said:

Hmmm, it seems ZETH on its own doesn't have Hexen support, but I'm sure if you download HETH to get the Hexen.cfg file, ZETH will edit Hexen just fine.

Oh, and Deep, ZETH DOES save levels in Hexen format. In fact, it is impossible to make vanilla doom/2 levels with ZETH.

LOL - where where did I say ZETH didn't save levels in HEXEN format? GOD you guys really have fun making stuff up or you are going senile prematurely. [edit: I checked my post up there and I actually said the opposite - jesus christ]

If you want to be accurate, always DO first and then POST. Meaning VERIFY your claims. Go ahead and put a HEXEN cfg file in ZETH and try to edit real HEXEN. You'll find a few surprises in store.

And I'd be less aggressive if i were you, or you'll make lots of enemies real fast.

I don't pussy foot around when I see BS that just plain wrong. Too much of this as it is - when someone goes out of their way to try to BS, too bad for them.

Rather than trying to judge me (and jumping on the bandwagon), you should spend the time VERIFYING your info. It's important to give accurate information, rather than guessing and having people waste their time. It's not hard to do either, but it does take initiative.

You should also honestly point out that the current free ZETH is not exactly stable any longer:)

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Geez, you really need to calm down about all this. I understand you feel deepsea is the best, since you made it, but theres no need to be an arsehole when anyone suggests another editor. I wasn't intentionally posting BS, I actually thought it was true (and still do).

And yes, I know that the latest ZETH is quite unstable, but I manage to make decent levels with it. And, upon testing ZETH with a hexen.cfg file, it actually does work with Hexen. I would make a Hexen map to prove it, but I'm too busy with other stuff and there would be no way of proving I actually used ZETH to make it.

Rather than trying to judge me (and jumping on the bandwagon)...

Actually, I didn't blindly 'jump on the bandwagon'. I've seen a lot of your other posts and your lack of tolerance towards people with different opinions from your own.

To people who agree with you you seem a decent person, but as soon as someone mentions they prefer another editor you break out with "OMG OMG YOU IDIOT YOU DONT KNOW ANYTHING!!!!11" (ok, slight exaggeration there, but hopefully you get the point).

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/me continues to use DETH/HETH/ZETH/LETH/TRIOUALE/SETH/STETH or *ETH. Maybe I'll load up old DEU v5.21, DEU 2, and HEU just for fun.

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SlayeR said:

but theres no need to be an arsehole when anyone suggests another editor. I wasn't intentionally posting BS, I actually thought it was true (and still do).

Where did I get do this?

How many times you guys just LIE and make stuff up is incredible. Show me in this thread where I did that? In fact, I did the opposite.

And yes, I know that the latest ZETH is quite unstable, but I manage to make decent levels with it.

And that is good. Sorry, but that's like saying my car quits on me once a week, but I don't bother looking for a new car. My lifestyle has better things to do. I completely understand some people keep that car and never consider alternatives.

The issue with ZETH is that Randy has only made it for ZDOOM and assumes ZDOOM assumptions. These assumptions can make for big trouble with real HEXEN. For example you can't use the ACS for ZDOOM. There's more involved than just the cfg file.

Actually, I didn't blindly 'jump on the bandwagon'. I've seen a lot of your other posts and your lack of tolerance towards people with different opinions from your own.

I see a lot of your posts and your lack of reading skill and ability to say things incorrectly always amazes me.

Does that piss you off? Now that's what you have done every single time you post.

You have an enormous lack of tolerance with ideas contrary to your own. In fact, as with most posters, all you think about is writing some reply (that's lurking in your mind), not caring to check up on the facts - seeing if I really did do that anywhere. Criticizing an editor is not the same as lack of tolerance.

IOW, I can point out how something won't work (as I did in this thread). That however, has nothing to do with "tolerance". If something doesn't work, it flat ass doesn't work. If something crashes, it flat ass crashes.

Is the pope a catholic? You jumped on the bandwagon. It's simple - there's nothing to support your claim.

To people who agree with you you seem a decent person, but as soon as someone mentions they prefer another editor you break out with "OMG OMG YOU IDIOT YOU DONT KNOW ANYTHING!!!!11" (ok, slight exaggeration there, but hopefully you get the point).

Not only a slight exageration - IT NEVER HAPPENED. I recommend other editors all the time - see above earlier post. However, if someone says a LIE (as you just did again), then I'm compelled to correct you. Tough. Learn to pay attention. Don't make stuff up.

That you (and others) have hyper sensitive skin when "your" editor is critiqued is your problem not mine. IOW, it's YOU with the problem, not me. I don't care what editor you use. The replies I made in this thread should make that obvious - but you do have to read them and understand them.

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Woah, woah. What the hell Jack?

Not true? I beg to differ, having done this on a small test level which I used to see if it would actually work (I was curious, wanted to make a Hexen level, but was too stubborn to actually take my ass out of WadEd, usual story...)
-- and having done it so LITTLE, yeah, I admnit there's no way to edit ACS or whatever in WadEd. Not that it usually can't wait until the meat and veg of the level is done. Namely the architecture.

Then comes the ZWADCONV bit, you see, I'm fully aware of the fact that linedefs are stored a little differently between Doom and Hexen. ZWADCONV converts your Doom (With hexen textures and flats) level into one that is the correct format. This is about the 50% stage, where I have to dive into one of those icky 'Hexen editor' things and start inserting things and that. You know, the stuff I couldn't do in WadEd.

And your comment on the "Same typical nonsense being repeated over and over" is, as far as I am concerned, null and void. So, an opinions isn't arbitrary reasoning? So it must be based on pure logic, then? So why does my girlfriend love strawberries, and I hate them? Neither of us are allergic or have a physical dependence on them - it's 100% arbitrary that I choose not to eat them. I'm well within my right, it's my opinion.

Now apply this to Doom editors. Sure, everyone's entitled to their own favourites, but do you repect this? Not really. You're intelligent, and extremely articulate. Therefore you can communicate an opinion extremely well on these forums. Not like most of the users, who may say "WadAuthor is the best" when they mean "I like WadAuthor the most".

I've seen this time, and time, and time, AND TIME over from you. Your intolerance of what others see as the 'best' (READ: Their personal favourite -- it's natural to define things this way in real life, too, otherwise magazine wouldn't have ever changing 'BEST 10' lists all the time, for example). This grates. Leave people be. So, you wish to pimp DeePSea a bit. LET THE EDITOR DO THE TALKING. I've used a limited version of your editor. I don't like it - many others would say, therefore that DeePSea is "bad", Again, you prey on the words of these people, which, being honest, are probably mere children compared to yourself. What they mean is that they personally find DeePSea to be "bad". I do - although an objective look at it tells me that it has the most, therefore should be "best", I can't really bring my opinionated self to say it. Because it's not my "Favourite".

Nonetheless, unless your attitude changes, this will be the last time I direct any attention at that self-obsessed, pompous, arrogant person that goes by the name of Deep on these forums. And anybody else sick of his attitude would be wise to do that same. No matter how good the editor, the attitude stinks.

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deep said:

WADED is a ridiculous example because it is so size limited it's a joke. Plus the dumbest file saving system there is (and it crashes).

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WTF IS WRONG WITH WADED FILE SAVING? Ahem.

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Espi: Some kind of directory browser would have been nice, maybe? I think the introduction of a GUI should eliminate the need for unnecessary typing, but no. Besides, it has this for loading, why not saving? Nonetheless, it's one of few things that annoy me about the program -- it's not so important really, just a "pet peeve".

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How many times you guys just LIE and make stuff up is incredible.

Uhhh, but I DIDN'T lie. ZETH actually CAN create Hexen levels, minus the ACS scripts.

For example you can't use the ACS for ZDOOM. There's more involved than just the cfg file.

That is true, but it still can edit and create Hexen levels.

You have an enormous lack of tolerance with ideas contrary to your own. In fact, as with most posters, all you think about is writing some reply (that's lurking in your mind), not caring to check up on the facts - seeing if I really did do that anywhere. Criticizing an editor is not the same as lack of tolerance.

That's the most hypocritical thing I've heard all day.

I recommend other editors all the time - see above earlier post.

ROFL.

That you (and others) have hyper sensitive skin when "your" editor is critiqued is your problem not mine. IOW, it's YOU with the problem, not me.

The second most hypocritical thing i've heard all day. I don't care if people hate DETH/ZETH. You seem to care very much when people bash Deepsea.

I hope Gooberman's editor is so good that no one ever buys Deepsea ever again. You don't deserve any money until you change your ways.

That will be all. I refuse to read your crap any longer.

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OMG WILL YOU PEOPLE QUIT ARGUING BACK AND FORTH WITH DEEP, HE STRIVES ON IT. LEAVE DEEP ALONE AND MAYBE HE WILL STFU. THANK YOU.

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bigbadgangsta said:

OMG WILL YOU PEOPLE QUIT ARGUING BACK AND FORTH WITH DEEP, HE STRIVES ON IT. LEAVE DEEP ALONE AND MAYBE HE WILL STFU. THANK YOU.

We can only hope.

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