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qoncept

Can you help me get past my New Doom issues?

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MrGlide said:

Go ahead and replay them and question yourself "can I really do this in a different order?".

Yes. I'd consider most of doom 2 nonlinear to a good extent.

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Viscra Maelstrom said:

i think the point is that the combat in original Doom is more dynamic because every monster is already put inside the map, and once they're triggered they'll just wander around which can lead to different ways dealing with them. also, the original Doom does not have the arena-centric combat that's omnipresent in Doom 4.

however that being said, i'd say this new Doom game does do the combat very well, because it's fun, frantic, keeps you on your toes and encourages you to be constantly moving. it's not a perfect game by any means, but the singleplayer is probably the most fun i've had with a FPS single-player campaign this entire millennium.


It seems like the only thing that doesn't complement the combat is map design. They could've done better, like Necropolis was weirdly linear. Fun but linear, and they were all like that. The only map I can think of that did non linearity well was foundry. If it was more of that, it would've been awesome. Since I've beaten it so many times I just use mission select and pick good arena fights, but it would be cool to pick maps based on the actual maps instead of combat situations. And getting full health after each major arena battle is BS. Id could've done better.

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insanoflex312 said:

Yes. I'd consider most of doom 2 nonlinear to a good extent.


I though it pretty much went without saying that many people (myself included) wouldn't particularly tote Doom 2's level design, of all the games in the franchise, to be nearly as good or as fun as it was in the first game or in Final Doom, even 64 if you will stands shoulders above it in my opinion. Doesn't help that half the levels in there looked like ass.

No offense intended to other Doom II fans out there as I still believe it's an awesome solid game all around and it was surely a worthy successor of the classic legacy UDoom booted, but, much like Doom 4, it's lacking in some aspects I feel.

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Jaxxoon R said:

TheGamePhilosophe claims to know so much about Classic Doom but has never once stopped talking about Doom 4 in the Doom 4 section long enough to stop shitting on Doom 4 and do anything productive or even remotely related to Classic Doom.

Boy, makes you wonder if they joined simply to shit on Doom 4 and don't actually care about or know anything about Classic Doom. Huh, how fuckin weird.



But I am talking about classic Doom. The fact that I'm doing it in the Doom 4 forum doesn't really matter. Seems to me that there's just a lot of people in this forum that hold ignorant opinions about the original, and don't understand basic concepts like linearity vs. non-linearity. So this is where I end up posting. The fact that the only response you can come up with is to attack my authenticity says a lot in this regard. I've yet to see anyone manage to contradict my actual statements about level design.

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massivefanofdoom said:

If we pick on it, all the dooms were 'linear' in that sense. Wads like eternal doom dont count, the official releases were find key and progress. Rinse and repeat.

A good chunk of Doom 1 and 2 were full of things you had to do in specific orders as well, dead-end side paths, etc. Doom is also by no means on the same level as Zelda 1, either, what even is that comparison.

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There were specific orders sometimes, but even then you had figure out which way contained what items. You had to explore and that exploration was necessary to finishing the level.

In new Doom, you might come to a door that won't open, but all you have to do is walk past it and farther down the hall you will find the mechanism to open it. Moreover, these were isolated moments in the original games that came with many more open maps, whereas this linearity characterizes practically the whole of Doom 4.

Non-linearity doesn't just apply to map layouts. You could actually engage enemy rooms in different orders, or avoid them entirely, or lead them to other rooms, or they might follow you in the originals. That led to all sorts of different tactics and strategies for completing levels, including resource management. Doom 4 provides much less openness in this regard. You are very strictly locked into a set orders of arenas which you are obligated to clear before you can leave them. Your ammo and health is restocked by killing enemies, and in a way that makes sure you don't get too low, so resource management isn't much of a factor.

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All the things you've stated being latent to Doom 4's level design are found often Classic Doom as well, the deciding factor being that Doom 4 places more emphasis on the combat itself, with those arenas themselves being well-connected and open. The level design is less complex, but it's also far more polished and consistent in quality than Doom 2. The level design becoming less exploration-focused late-game is a common complaint and an obvious one. So what's your point, then? Other than to nanner without any worth to words, there doesn't seem to be any meat to your statements.

Oh, and that "attack [on your] authenticity" as you put it also stems from the fact that you have zero involvement at all in the community other than posting Doom 4 rants, it's the entirety of everything you've done and its the extent of what you will ever do. And the extent of all your knowledge about the games is no more than the basics of what can be gotten through osmosis, and yet you call others on here ignorant. You've already proven yourself to be a pointless presence and everything points to you being a troll. The only thing left is to either wait for you to finally find something better to do than black knight against a computer game, or for you to pull another shitpost like the one that got you losered the first time, hopefully then there'd finally be a definite riddance of your buzzing.

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TheGamePhilosophe said:

I've yet to see anyone manage to contradict my actual statements about level design.

I'm tired, don't feel like writing a fucking levle guide for both games at once, and non of you trying to argue with me are even close to worth my time on the subject, You'v no interest in listening, your whole deal is bashing new doom, well as for that, guess it sucks to be you. New Doom sold very well. We'll see more of it =D.

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qoncept said:

mashing buttons.


If you don't feel compelled to intelligently make decisions about what weapon or skill to use and when to use them, you've got to be playing on one of the easiest difficulties. If you can actually succeed by just running around and shooting mindlessly, you should up the challenge.

Try Nightmare. Not because it's super hard or whatever. Just because it forces you to play more intelligently. You will find yourself using plasma stun frequently, and switching to a smart weapon to finish off the enemy, and it will be a different decision all the time. It will force you to use the chainsaw intelligently, as it's a scarce resource that you have to plan to use in order to restock ammo at the right time. This game never felt mindless to me. Each part of each engagement was its own little problem to solve in order to survive. On that note, Nightmare makes your upgrade choices more meaningful, too. Maybe you seriously *need* more health. Maybe you *need* higher ammo capacity, etc.

Finally, it forces you to understand enemy mechanics and behavior more than the other difficulties. I legit didn't know that pinky demons were only vulnerable from the back on my first playthrough. That's a lesson you absolutely must understand going into nightmare. Plasma stunning, strafing around its back, and using SSG pointblank will win the engagement. There you can see actual strategy and intelligent weapon use for a specific enemy type. Nightmare really does require that kind of thinking from you.

Try it. It's better.

Oh another thing that people have pointed out (and probably in this thread, but I didn't read the entire thread) is that you can disable enemy flashes that notify you when to glory kill. The flashes didn't bother me and I didn't feel that they detracted from the gameplay, so I don't turn them off. But some do and think it's a better experience.

Those are my suggestions.

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TheGamePhilosophe said:

I've yet to see anyone manage to contradict my actual statements about level design.


Because you can't accept them doesn't mean they haven't. Yes the new doom is non linear to an extent in most levels, but the original dooms were the same. This is doom, not morrowind. And once again, I can't fathom why someone who hates a game so much wastes his time on said forum of said game bashing it. And that's the bottom line.

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massivefanofdoom said:

Because you can't accept them doesn't mean they haven't. Yes the new doom is non linear to an extent in most levels, but the original dooms were the same. This is doom, not morrowind. And once again, I can't fathom why someone who hates a game so much wastes his time on said forum of said game bashing it. And that's the bottom line.


I've never ever seen him post in the Classic Doom or WADs sections. Check his post history. More than 90% of his posts are in this subforum. It's very strange.

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