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qoncept

Can you help me get past my New Doom issues?

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So after watching all the pre-release stuff, I was as concerned as the next guy that the game wouldn't be fast enough. I think game play has more or less put that to rest, but there are still a few things I can't quite get around to enjoy playing after almost 25 years of "real" Doom.

Note: I haven't gotten very far (haven't finished the first level yet) and I haven't been at my best because bong rips. But I digress.

1. The fights feel endless and boring. In general I think its because the monsters have too many hitpoints. Maybe because I haven't seen enough ammo. Or maybe because I'm fighting every monster that spawns instead of just moving on (which is really my MO - I'm playing the game to kill monsters, not to finish levels). My friend had this Lord of the Rings arena hack n slash kinda game and he would just run around from enemy to enemy mashing buttons. That's how New Doom fights feel to me. Like I'm cleaning up a room instead of fighting monsters. "Is that all? Nah I think I still hear something."

2. The glory kills. Obviously you like the premise or not (I don't, and I never liked anything about Brutal Doom). But what really irks me is that you can't see shit else going on while you're doing them. The other monsters around this guy? I still want to know what they're doing. Plus the glory kills have pretty major incentives, but I hate doing them.

3. Monster recognition. This is really kind of an issue for me in general, but I don't think I'm alone. If you look at any modern FPS and then Doom back to back, even without playing you can see how the bright colors and contrast in Old Doom make it very easy to spot and identify monsters (if you can see it, you know what it is) so you can act accordingly. I've got a lot less experience with New Doom, but so far I usually have no idea what I'm fighting until they throw a projectile.

I obviously have a lot of nostalgia for the original, but it's not rose tinted glasses looking at decades old memories. I like the original so much because it is such a great game. The new game has hit a few of those points but hopefully someone can tell me what I'm missing or whatever so I can get past the rest.

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Glory kills are fast to perform and usually don't take more than 1.5 seconds + I Believe monsters just freeze (do nothing) while you're glory killing, I noticed that many times .

Also the monsters are colorful now, compared to the E3 Showcase they are better and it's easier to recognize them .

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qoncept said:

Note: I haven't gotten very far (haven't finished the first level yet) and I haven't been at my best because bong rips. But I digress.

1. The fights feel endless and boring. (haven't finished the first level yet)

2. The glory kills. the glory kills have pretty major incentives, but I hate doing them.

3. Monster recognition. I've got a lot less experience with New Doom,(haven't finished the first level yet) but so far I usually have no idea what I'm fighting until they throw a projectile.

Give the game a little more time? You'll get better weapons and such, also think of the new shotgun as the doom 3 shot gun with a tad more range on it, you can one shot kill most of the trash with proper aiming and close distance, but if your back a bit use the shotgun(unmodded) to stun enemies like you would with classic chaingun. glory kills, don't do them unless you have to or are trying to avoid a projectile. headshot kills will net you close to as good of health and ammo and doesn't slow you down. All the fights in the first level are quite short, try giving the game a tad more time and comeback and let us know what you think.

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I agree with MrGlide.

Give the game more time. Indeed the monsters take more hits than the classic Dooms which sorts of sets the feel of the games apart rather significantly. However keep on looking for secrets and upgrading your weapon mods (if you have gotten that far). Getting the grenade launcher on the Combat Shotgun will make short work of beginning enemies.

Eventually you will discover and learn more about Doom 2016's mechanics and develop a killing pattern. Such as Plasma Stun Bomb - Shotty Grenade Launcher - Finishing Move.

You may have picked up on one issue early on though. And that's how Doom Arena battles feels samey compared to its predecessors. For example, no particularly memorable monster encounters like in Dead Simple. However the game mechanics and battle flow is good enough to shadow this issue. Keep at it, the more content you unlock the better.

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Chezza said:

For example, no particularly memorable monster encounters like in Dead Simple.

I thought the dead simple easter egg was pretty memorable, kinda like Dead simple lol. Many of the fights are kinda samey but I will say there are some memorable fights mostly out of the difficulty of them. This one get's me everytime.

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I'm glad to see I'm not the only person who has a hard time in this fight. This is where you want to have a fully loaded BFG and upgraded ammo drop Rune.

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Not only posts an image macro (bad enough), but completely fails to use it in a context that makes sense.

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You really dont have to GK a lot, when you are low on hp or ammo the kills will automatically give you back. As you get upgrades the game becomes better and better.

I dont know what to say about the contrast issue, I dont have it at all. try play with the gamma slider.

As for the arenas, yes you have to kill all monsters to progress 90% of the time. That's just the way it is, unfortunately for you, but after level 2 game becomes really intense and action packed and the adrenaline really starts pumpin and that will not be an issue - if you let it slowly grow on you.

This game is really the best fps in recent years.

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Jaxxoon R said:

Not only posts an image macro (bad enough), but completely fails to use it in a context that makes sense.

Maybe it has nothing to do with that topic, but zero fucks given, Also how's an image macro bad .

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What I would emphasize is setting up macros and learning your arsenal to maximize your damage output. Once you get some upgrades and a couple of power weapons you do massive amounts of damage. You can kill anything in seconds. Don't forget about the chainsaw and grenade. If you aren't killing fast enough, you aren't maximizing your DPS.

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Obzen said:

What I would emphasize is setting up macros and learning your arsenal to maximize your damage output. Once you get some upgrades and a couple of power weapons you do massive amounts of damage. You can kill anything in seconds. Don't forget about the chainsaw and grenade. If you aren't killing fast enough, you aren't maximizing your DPS.


Definitely, took me a bit to get used to constantly checking if my grenades are available but once I did, I was basically tossing them the moment the timer was up. Remember, the game has infinite grenades.

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I'm afraid it's not going to get better, OP.

The arena combat is the core of the game and defines Doom 2016. The gameplay loop is you get locked in an arena, kill all the enemies that spawn into it in successive waves, leave the arena, go down a few corridors, rinse and repeat.

The levels are very linear and each arena also plays out in pretty much the exact same way too. By the time you're half-way through the game (if you can manage to push through that far), you'll have fought through dozens of these arenas, but won't be able to remember a single one in particular. They will all blur together. The only thing that changes with them is the number of enemy waves that will teleport in (the actual number of enemies present at once never really changes).

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TheGamePhilosophe said:

The levels are very linear


You CLEARLY haven't played the game and if you did, you sucked at exploring.

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Those who say levels are linear disable waypoints, There are about 5 Secrets per each level, And also some other secondary challenges .

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DooM_RO said:

You CLEARLY haven't played the game and if you did, you sucked at exploring.


I'll bite his shit bait just to vent for a sec, excuse me.

He claims to have purchased the game in its first week of release for its total $60, even after having spouted misinformation, hate posts and backhanded assumptions for months on end that either were proved nil fallacies and backfired on him in the form of laughter and shaming, or flat out ignored. Make no mistake, the longest period of contact he's had with the game as of this day has been either console gameplay videos or video rants to fuel his hateboner.

Now that the game has garnered critical acclaim, what better way of shitting on it than to engage double down mode and take the passive shitpost route, carefully choosing his words so as to pretend to pass off his strawman fallacies as his mere opinion, and not make it obvious that he's a tactless chode. He's going to keep on aimlessly engrossing his 'the game is repetitive' because it sounds almost natural.

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Most monsters take the same amount of damage as in the classic doom, save for the revenant and pinky.

Check it with the super shotgun.

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Most people claiming the game feels repetitive simply because they either didn't play the game or sucked enough not to complete the first level, Because each new part of level offers a different theme .

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@TheGamePhilosophe, oddly I thought I ignored you, but guess not. The levels are just as non-linier as the old games. When you talk out of your ass like this, it just paints you as ignorant and tarnishes any opinion you may have in the future. every arena is different, to say they're all the same is just silly. Tell us, how did you want Doom'16 to be?

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My fav level is kadingir, man it feels so awesome and epic.

As a big fan of this game, I have to be 100% honest and I know this will play into the haters' and trolls' favor, but I remember the beginning of titan being used on gameinformer's article and advertised in one, if not more, gameplay videos as being FULL of monsters ... like there was a sshot with a cybie, 3 or 4 cacos, tons of imps and unwilling, 2 revenants all in the player's face .... we have to admit we didn't get any of that ingame and apart from the arenas, there arent a lot of hordes and monster waves coming at you all at once. I do feel cheated on that in a false advertising sense, but the game is so awesome anyway and it doesn't feel like an arena sim when you are getting a new feel and theme every level. My only gripe is that 13 levels including the intro seems too little for a doom game so long in the making. EXPAC please!!!!

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MrGlide said:

@TheGamePhilosophe, oddly I thought I ignored you, but guess not. The levels are just as non-linier as the old games.


This is really only true for the first 4 levels or so. Once you reach the Lazarus Tower and beyond (sans the revisit to the Lazarus Facility) the levels start becoming more linear and focusing more on the battle arenas and locking doors behind you. It was plain weird how at the beginning of the level where you fight the Guardians you're forced to search for the two keys at the beginning in order.

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The secret rooms off to the side of the main path don't make the game non-linear. They don't change the fact that you have to go through a set number of arenas in a set order to complete each level. They are little more than brief dead-ends where you find some item or rune trial and then return back to the main path.

Turning off the waypoint system (which I did) doesn't change anything about this. And if you're observant, you'll notice that they always mark the main path, which is to say the only path that actually progresses you through the level, with green. So there's never any question as to which way you're supposed to go. Not that that matters, since side paths will only take you a few hops away from the main one at most.

Legend of Zelda is non-linear game design. You can go in any direction at the start and there will be things to find and do relevant to your progress. You can play the game again and do things in an entirely different order, and it will change the overall experience of the game.

Dark Souls is non-linear game design, for the same reasons.

And the original Doom is non-linear game design because, again, in many levels you can take a variety of paths from the get go, clear rooms and get keys in a different order. You can choose not to fight, or fight for a limited time. Enemies can follow you to different parts of the map.

The only level in the entire game of Doom 2016 that is non-linear is the Foundry. You can tackle the gore nests in whatever order you choose. Interestingly enough, that was the level id advertised the most, and I know a lot of people used it as evidence that this Doom was going to be non-linear like the old school games. Pity the rest of the game was nothing like it.

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MrSkeltal said:

This is really only true for the first 4 levels or so. Once you reach the Lazarus Tower and beyond (sans the revisit to the Lazarus Facility) the levels start becoming more linear and focusing more on the battle arenas and locking doors behind you. It was plain weird how at the beginning of the level where you fight the Guardians you're forced to search for the two keys at the beginning in order.


If we pick on it, all the dooms were 'linear' in that sense. Wads like eternal doom dont count, the official releases were find key and progress. Rinse and repeat. It's a doom game and it does the main selling point of the franchise - action - justice, and might I add - very, very well.

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TheGamePhilosophe claims to know so much about Classic Doom but has never once stopped talking about Doom 4 in the Doom 4 section long enough to stop shitting on Doom 4 and do anything productive or even remotely related to Classic Doom.

Boy, makes you wonder if they joined simply to shit on Doom 4 and don't actually care about or know anything about Classic Doom. Huh, how fuckin weird.

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Jaxxoon R said:

Boy, makes you wonder if they joined simply to shit on Doom 4 and don't actually care about or know anything about Classic Doom. Huh, how fuckin weird.

I also noticed "the Doom 2016 is Not true Doom" hug box that just came out of nowhere right at the time the game got some steam.

Doom 2016 is modern so it must be bad ... Right?

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massivefanofdoom said:

If we pick on it, all the dooms were 'linear' in that sense. Wads like eternal doom dont count, the official releases were find key and progress. Rinse and repeat. It's a doom game and it does the main selling point of the franchise - action - justice, and might I add - very, very well.


I meant that at the very beginning of the level you're supposed to pick up two individual keys to open two different gates and the room has two teleporters that lead you to the separate areas that contain those keys. You'd expect to be given the option to choose which area to tackle first, similar to the Foundry/Argent Facility levels, but instead the game locks one path and forces you to take a specific route for whatever reason.
The levels themselves start decreasing in complexity the further the game goes on, the last two are mostly a handful of arenas with minor side paths. A far cry from the opening levels.

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you are correct to an extent on the d16 levels, but the problem I find with your comparison is that many of doom and doom 2's levels are the exact same way. Even worse about it almost. Go ahead and replay them and question yourself "can I really do this in a different order?".

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i think the point is that the combat in original Doom is more dynamic because every monster is already put inside the map, and once they're triggered they'll just wander around which can lead to different ways dealing with them. also, the original Doom does not have the arena-centric combat that's omnipresent in Doom 4.

however that being said, i'd say this new Doom game does do the combat very well, because it's fun, frantic, keeps you on your toes and encourages you to be constantly moving. it's not a perfect game by any means, but the singleplayer is probably the most fun i've had with a FPS single-player campaign this entire millennium.

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